Forest Green Hobbit
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4.7 NORSE MOVEMENT Is pretty clear that “The Norse may Retreat or Regroup to any friendly coastal area (only).” However, if at the end of a battle: 1) one is forced to retreat as attacker after 3 rounds or 2) one is regrouping, may the Norse retreat or regroup to an area which was immediately previously neutral (i.e. vacant) but is made friendly (i.e. occupied) by blocks retreating or regrouping from the same battle? My thought is NO in the spirit of “5.5 RETREATING …• If several blocks are eligible to retreat at the same time, flip them all upright to hide retreat destinations from the enemy.” That is, since they are all retreating or regrouping ‘at the same time’, areas are not friendly before the Norse retreat or regroup since it is done ‘at the same time’.

UPDATE May 22, 2014: This thread is running 3 for yes and 1 for no. The 1 for no is me. I was playing the Scots and decided NOT to regroup my Norse to a vacant area into which my victorious army from the same battle was regrouping. At the time, it just did not feel right. I can see from other's thoughts, that the answer could be a yes, so I'll flip-flop my vote to yes to make it 4 to 0 in favor. Thanks to all who replied and may still reply.
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LautreSault
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Interesting question.

I would say yes, though.
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george seary
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Since all A blocks retreat before B blocks, the only way a neutral/vacant area can be made Friendly for purposes of Norse retreat is if another A block retreats there before the Norse do (which could only be Wallace or the Scots King).
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Jeff Johnson
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The retreat destination only has to be friendly at the time the retreat is made. No problem if it was just captured.
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Richard Pomeroy
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I agree that it doesn't matter how recently the retreat venue has become Friendly: Friendly is Friendly. I disagree in part with George - I think he is correct in that retreats during the three battle rounds must be conducted in A-B-C order where the retreat is conducted in lieu of attack. However, where the mandatory retreat must be made by all units after the attacker has failed to conquer after completing three full battle rounds I see no language in the v3 rules that requires the blocks to be retreated in any particular order. Thematically, just think of the Norse laying offshore in their longships until they see some friendly banners on the coast.
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Forest Green Hobbit
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Lautresault wrote:
...I would say yes, though.

But why? Would like to hear your reasoning on 'yes'. Thanks for the reply.
 
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Forest Green Hobbit
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armadaman wrote:
Since all A blocks retreat before B blocks, the only way a neutral/vacant area can be made Friendly for purposes of Norse retreat is if another A block retreats there before the Norse do (which could only be Wallace or the Scots King).

So if the Scots King or Wallace are in the same battle with the Norse and retreat (per 5.5) 'at the same time' could they make an previously neutral area friendly? Thanks for the reply.
 
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Oakfed wrote:
The retreat destination only has to be friendly at the time the retreat is made. No problem if it was just captured.

Not talking about capturing areas here, but we are talking about the timing of 'at the time the retreat is made'. If the Norse are retreating or regrouping (per 5.5) 'at the same time' as other blocks, may they retreat or regroup to a netural area made friendly by the other blocks retreating or regrouping 'at the SAME time'? Thanks for the reply.
 
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Forest Green Hobbit
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rjpomeroy wrote:
....Thematically, just think of the Norse laying offshore in their longships until they see some friendly banners on the coast.

Thanks for the reply. So I am thinnking you are saying YES the Norse may retreat or regroup to an area to which other blocks are doing so (per 5.5) 'at the same time'.
 
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Richard Pomeroy
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Tom Good wrote:
rjpomeroy wrote:
....Thematically, just think of the Norse laying offshore in their longships until they see some friendly banners on the coast.

Thanks for the reply. So I am thinnking you are saying YES the Norse may retreat or regroup to an area to which other blocks are doing so (per 5.5) 'at the same time'.


YES - I'm for permitting the move. I see how one might conclude otherwise but for me the rule prevents the Norse from creating their "own" friendly areas - but if the Scots have rolled into town then the Norse have Friendly support.
 
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LautreSault
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Tom Good wrote:
Lautresault wrote:
...I would say yes, though.

But why? Would like to hear your reasoning on 'yes'. Thanks for the reply.


With a literary reading of the rules, I understand someone saying NO. But I disagree. (If my opponent is being peeky, I would have some arguments).

Also it doesn´t FEEL right. If our troops are regrouping I would allow the Norse to go to a neutral area if accompanied with another unit. This solution, IMO, seems more thematically and sound option.

But it is dubious. That's why I said "Interesting question".
 
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Carl Marl
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The Norse move alone. Because retreating and regrouping is mentioned in the same rule, one can assume those count as movement.

4.7 NORSE MOVEMENT
The Norse block moves and attacks separately from other blocks. It requires one (1) movement point to move all by itself. The Norse move by sea from a coastal area to any other coastal area and may attack. The Norse may Retreat or Regroup to any friendly coastal area (only).

 
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Forest Green Hobbit
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fambans wrote:
The Norse move alone. Because retreating and regrouping is mentioned in the same rule, one can assume those count as movement.

Thanks for the reply, so is that a YES or NO to the question: "If at the end of a battle: 1) one is forced to retreat as attacker after 3 rounds or 2) one is regrouping, may the Norse retreat or regroup to an area which was immediately previously neutral (i.e. vacant) but is made friendly (i.e. occupied) by blocks retreating or regrouping from the same battle?"
 
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Forest Green Hobbit
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UPDATE May 22, 2014: This thread is running 3 for yes and 1 for no. The 1 for no is me. I was playing the Scots and decided NOT to regroup my Norse to a vacant area into which my victorious army from the same battle was regrouping. At the time, it just did not feel right. I can see from other's thoughts, that the answer could be a yes, so I'll flip-flop my vote to yes to make it 4 to 0 in favor. Thanks to all who replied and may still reply.
 
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Heiko Moeller
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I'd say if in doubt, take the rules literally (especially the norse side text):

Quote:
Because area control changes immediately Norse retreat options may
change due to the outcome of other battles or even due to other
retreating blocks in the same battle.


Meaning any other block (including Wallace's A block) could retreat (when it is their turn to combat) before the norse and thus make the area friendly.

Regrouping on the other hand has no apparent timing, so we have to assume that all blocks regroup simultaneously. Wich means the norse can't regroup into a still vacant area.
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