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Subject: A Unique Ability Idea That I Want All of You to Help me With! rss

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Marco Santos
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I've recently thought of a unique ability that's very interesting and I'd like to see it become a full-blown character. That's where you guys step in! I'm going to list down the character's unique ability and it's up to you guys to do all the other stuff like think of cards!

Of course, I'll help, too!


Unique Ability: Shadow Dancing

X has a Shadow Marker that's always on the space of the board that mirrors her position. For example, if X is on one edge of the board, the Marker on the other edge. If X is in the middle of the board, the marker is in X's current space.

Every beat, X activates his/her/its attack pair twice in priority order; one calculating range from X's stand-up, while the other calculating range from the Shadow Marker (X may choose which attack executes first). The attack calculated using the Shadow Marker has Power -6.

What do you guys think?

Edit: Perhaps the UA's a bit too strong with letting her double up on movement effects. I think I should add "X cannot move when calculating an attack from the Shadow Maker."
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Aaron White
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I think it is a fantastic idea and immediately makes me think of the Shadow from One Must Fall: 2097. (Best fighting game ever)

The only problem I have is that the ability sounds too close to Gaspar, yet when I try to think of other effects they are already owned by Karin and J├Ąger.

Maybe if the position of the Shadow was determined by your placement as suggested, but that the benefit is based on the style you play and if the opponent was on the Shadows position.

So, when deciding what pairs to play, you would be trying to decide where the opponent may land and trying to cast your shadow on that position. Then you can get a Shadow benefit based on the style you played.

Great idea and good luck.
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Marco Santos
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I think having the Shadow do different things is quite interesting. I can see the Gaspar resemblance mixed in with Karin and Jager.

Interesting! I'd love more comments.

My idea was that he/she/it was a character that needed her and the Shadow to hit in order to work. So, a majority of his/her/its attacks would have stuff that says "If you've hit your opponent previously during this beat, *insert some bonus here*"

Though, that is Gaspar-ish.

Edit:

What if the style he/she/it plays determines where the Shadow goes? Playing style 1 would end up with the Shadow int he center, for example. However, the Shadow is removed from the board EoB.
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Aaron White
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Just another quick random idea, the Shadow Marker does open up for some great Finishers. I might be influenced by Zato-1 from Guilty Gear, you could always have your character meld with their shadow for bonus stats.
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Marco Santos
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Rook96 wrote:
Just another quick random idea, the Shadow Marker does open up for some great Finishers. I might be influenced by Zato-1 from Guilty Gear, you could always have your character meld with their shadow for bonus stats.


I was thinking of a style that gave her Power +4 and Prio +2 if she was on the same space as the Shadow. XD
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Aaron White
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mnmkami wrote:
Rook96 wrote:
Just another quick random idea, the Shadow Marker does open up for some great Finishers. I might be influenced by Zato-1 from Guilty Gear, you could always have your character meld with their shadow for bonus stats.


I was thinking of a style that gave her Power +4 and Prio +2 if she was on the same space as the Shadow. XD


Which is interesting because that is the centre space. Sounds like a good bluff. But the power +4 bonus sounds massive - King Alexian and Cadenza would be shocked!
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Marco Santos
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Rook96 wrote:
mnmkami wrote:
Rook96 wrote:
Just another quick random idea, the Shadow Marker does open up for some great Finishers. I might be influenced by Zato-1 from Guilty Gear, you could always have your character meld with their shadow for bonus stats.


I was thinking of a style that gave her Power +4 and Prio +2 if she was on the same space as the Shadow. XD


Which is interesting because that is the centre space. Sounds like a good bluff. But the power +4 bonus sounds massive - King Alexian and Cadenza would be shocked!


Indeed! I think that's the awesome dynamic this character can have. It seems like X always has full board range, which makes X deadly.

And the center space thing is a GREAT bluff. Though, I might botch it to Power +2, Priority +2 hahahaha.
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Joel Chi
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I'm not sure the Shadow should directly. That is a bit like Gaspar and also has the issue of being a lot of verbiage for what essentially ends up being an extra on-hit effect (or extra movement for the actual character that doesn't make too much sense).

Maybe just make the shadow just always mirror you and give a power +2, pio +2 if you are on the same spot as your shadow. You can have one style that says your shadow does not change its position this beat for a trick to get that power/pio bonus when not on the center.

This would also be cool:

Embracing
+0~1 Range, -1 Power, +0 Priority
Start of Beat: Advance 1 Space.
On-hit: Move opponent 1 Space. If the opponent is in the same space as your shadow, they lose 2 life and are stunned.

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Marco Santos
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I like the idea!

However, it's not just a simple extra On Hit effect. There is a nuance in the Shadow being a means of getting people into your limited/awkward range. I found that to be interesting.

If I'm reading it right, your proposition would essentially make them like Karin and Jager with a more mobile Jager?
 
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Joel Chi
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I can see how my idea will turn the character into just another Karin+Jaeger.

Unique Ability: Shadow Dancing

X has a Shadow Marker that's always ect...

Range maybe calculated from X's shadow instead of X. If an attack is only in range of X's shadow, it gains -2 power.

Triggered Effects marked Shadow only occur when the opponent is in range of X's shadow.

Grip (Unique Base)
Range: 0~1, Power: 2, Priority: 5
Start of Beat: Advance 1 or 2 spaces.
Shadow: On-hit: The opponent loses 3 life.

Now for a style that is called "Fiend's" for the Dota fans out there...

 
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Aaron White
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You could make the Shadow a permanent Mirror Image from Arec? If this game had controllers, that might make players break a few of them. The restriction being that the shadows position mirrors yours.
 
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Marco Santos
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I like the ability to just almost always randomly teleport to the opposite side of the screen. That makes things interesting.

Rather than be another Gaspar, the character could be a high-mobility stun-gun.

What do you guys think?

More suggestions?

The thing with this is that multiple interpretations could lead us to many things.

The Shadow was not really meant to emulate Gaspar's extra damage and whatnot. It was a new way of looking at a Marker-based fighter. So, yes, technically, just a re-vamped Karin and Jager (which is fine since they're just a re-vamped Tatsumi and Juto, and Khadath). XD
 
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Olivier D.
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Let me try something :

- The shadow is *always* passively mirroring X's position.
I guess X will try to play close to the center, confusing the opponent with burst/drive/dash to switch position with the shadow.

- If you want something more unique (and like triple guessing), have the shadow copy the *opponent's* attack pair from its position: the copied attack has the opponent's base priority+X's style priority modifier, and the printed range/damage of the opponent's attack pair

- Styles do different things when either X's, the shadow's, or both attacks land (don't go overboard though, or this might end up being quite chaotic). You might have to make X's pow modifiers pretty low (read : mostly negative) to compensate.

- If this sounds a bit too powerful, have the shadow vanish whenever X is stunned, or whevener it lands an attack, with a style/base to recreate it. Alternatively, give X a shdow token, which can either be anted for a +1 prio, +1 max range or to create the shadow token (and is returned at EoB if the shadow isn't in play).

*edit* oh! and don't forget to give X a "taunt" style where the opponent's attack tries to hit the shadow
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Marco Santos
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I like the idea! It's all so interesting!

The Shadow is always passively copying you, so that's fine.

I don't want her copying opponent attack pairs. I'm in no mood for another Sagas issue to pop up. Hahaha.

I like varying effects based on which attacks hit (though it might make some styles too nuanced).

Vanishing sounds like a good idea. I'm not sure about creating the shadow.

Also, negative Power values were always in consideration.

All so interesting! I love these ideas!
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Olivier D.
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mnmkami wrote:
I don't want her copying opponent attack pairs. I'm in no mood for another Sagas issue to pop up. Hahaha.


If you only copy printed pow/range, and no other effect, this shouldn't be a problem

 
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Marco Santos
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mildaene wrote:
mnmkami wrote:
I don't want her copying opponent attack pairs. I'm in no mood for another Sagas issue to pop up. Hahaha.


If you only copy printed pow/range, and no other effect, this shouldn't be a problem



I assure you, there will be problems. //cries a river

Hahaha. Mostly with people whose values are dictated by "X."
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Olivier D.
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X=0 this is only a shadow! devil

(best noughts & crosses variant if you get to play first, btw)
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Marco Santos
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Interesting. We'll see other peoples' comments, first!
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Lou Lessing
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I like it.

It's very powerful, the character has essentially infinite range on attacks, very easy positioning, and a power doubler with the potential for 100% uptime. That last one's about the scariest thing imaginable, but his styles can be balanced around it, that's not hard. I actually like being able to double up movement effects, that's way more unique than just doubling damages.

In terms of things to do with your styles, there's some basic ones. You've got your "Swap with shadow" style, that's a standard for a reason, Karin doesn't own it. It's also a thing on Karin, but a style for this guy where, if your shadow is in the same space as an opponent, they move when it moves, is pretty good for this guy. You want to drag people into the middle and dunk them with doubled strikes, right? Styles that move them on hit are also stronger than normal here, because they set up your Shadow damage. You want at least one style that has -1 minimum range, too, I think, because I feel like "Stand on his shadow" is something he should be able to punish.

Your styles also need to be pretty weak for balance reasons, because your UA is so strong, so I might put different drawbacks on each one. "If you are hit this beat, lose two life." "Lose all stun guard."
"Ignore movement effects on your base." that sort of thing. That'd be more interesting than just giving them all terrible stats, I think.

More complicated, I'd like to lose the -6 priority on the Shadow and give it different stats on every style. Penalty stats, in general, but make him less predictable. Right now a lot of his counterplay is going to be "Just stun him out of his shadow attack. Doesn't matter if he hits you with his main one, he can outspeed you, just stun him before his shadow can go off because he doesn't trade positively without his damage doubler, in general." That's a fine pattern, but if that's 100% of what you do to beat him, that's sort of one-dimensional to play against. I'd like to see a mixture of priority penalties and power penalties, maybe even a style or two where the shadow copy is the good one and your character's copy is the bad one.
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Marco Santos
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Hello! Actually, his Shadow has Power -6, not Priority.

However, I like your proposed ideas!

Being able to double-up on every attack pair is very interesting! I do have an idea regarding balance, though. Since Infinite range + doubling effects sounds so dangerous, what if your play-style becomes throwing people into the shadow's range to hurt them hard?

The only proposed change is the following:

The Shadow's position does not change during the beat. It will only mirror your position during the end of the ante phase. Shadow attacks no longer have negative Power. YOUR attacks have negative Power (probably Power -2).

What do you guys think?

It seems to be quite interesting to me, making stuff like the "Switch Shadow" style even more powerful. The "Being in the same space as Shadow" style would also gain a dynamic, giving you incentive to walk across the board, rather than just hug the center.

What do you guys think?
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Joel Chi
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What if the Shadow deals in life loss effect/damage instead of actual damage?

It can hurt more than the real person but have no ability to stun opponents out of attacks.


 
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Marco Santos
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That's interesting. We could just have it not stun opponents.

It's an interesting dynamic.

You deal little damage but can stun.
The Shadow deals a lot of damage but can't stun.

Interesting.
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Marco Santos
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Still formulating a decent way to word it.
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Lou Lessing
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"During the reveal step, ~ puts their shadow marker in the space equidistant from the center of the board on their opposite side. The shadow executes ~'s attack in priority order. (~acts before his shadow if they have the same priority.) The Shadow attack does not stun opponents."

Then you put all the actual numbers for the shadow on his styles. Could be pretty simple, things like 0/-2/-2, your Shadow gets +6 power and -2 priority (remembering that that's added to your modifiers.) You could also do something cool with his styles and have them split horizontally between a normal style and a shadow style, sort of like Ramos' attacks.
 
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Sirius Lee
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I hope I'm not necro-ing this thread :|

Anyway, another idea for X. Which is probably a lot different from the original....

So what if X has a <cool name> Token that, when anted, swaps the position of X and its shadow? I think that this could mess things up really badly / make games table-smashing-ly fun!

Kind of reminds me of Regicide Heketch, with his Dark Force Token.

"Eyahahahahahahaha!" ~ Heketch

PS I love BattleGuides!
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