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Eldritch Horror» Forums » Rules

Subject: Combat during an event? rss

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Mathias Heilmann
Germany
Essen
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In a solo session last night I had a situation that was ambiguous:
One of my investigators got her hands on a gun (I think it was the +3 Strength during combat one). Then, afterwards she had that gate event where she finds herself in a fight with some beasts and has to test her strength. While I'm fairly sure that tests during an event aren't considered a combat (unless it's an ambush or the likes) it just didn't make sense that she couldn't use her guns.
There's more of these events. For example one of Cthulhu special ones where you have to fend of a starspawn (not an ambush but a test). I think some guns would help with that as well, logically.

So, what would be the right thing to do?
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Emile de Maat
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Hengelo
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If it is not an ambush, it is not a combat, even if the flavour text suggests that you are fighting.

Themewise, it would make sense that you could use weapons, but using weapons would make the tests too easy - their difficulty has not been adjusted for the use of weapons.
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My take is that if there's a monster, it's a combat.
EDIT: I misunderstood. I thought it was an ambush.
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Bert McCloud
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Heilz wrote:
In a solo session last night I had a situation that was ambiguous:
One of my investigators got her hands on a gun (I think it was the +3 Strength during combat one). Then, afterwards she had that gate event where she finds herself in a fight with some beasts and has to test her strength. While I'm fairly sure that tests during an event aren't considered a combat (unless it's an ambush or the likes) it just didn't make sense that she couldn't use her guns.
There's more of these events. For example one of Cthulhu special ones where you have to fend of a starspawn (not an ambush but a test). I think some guns would help with that as well, logically.

So, what would be the right thing to do?


Think of it this way. When you are ambushed, the monster pounces out and initiates a fight with you, it may have been a surprise but it appears at somewhat of a distance and you have a chance to participate in a "fair" fight (is it really entirely fair to be fighting a starspawn?).

Where as the other times when you are only testing your strength it's because these monsters have caught you completely off guard. They have entered into your personal space; you have no space to react, you have no space for guns, you just have to rely on your own strength to fend off the beast!

That's my logic anyway. Doesn't necessarily work for all scenarios but I'm sure I can come up with a similar explaination depending on the flavour of the card!
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Ben O'Steen
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Your gun is still in customs and you've yet to go pick it up when you are ambushed...?
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Chris J Davis
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benosteen wrote:
Your gun is still in customs and you've yet to go pick it up when you are ambushed...?


Please check your weapons at the gate...
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M.C.Crispy
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bleached_lizard wrote:
benosteen wrote:
Your gun is still in customs and you've yet to go pick it up when you are ambushed...?


Please check your weapons at the gate...
I tend to respond in the manner demonstrated by Neo and Trinity in that scene.
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Tom Chick
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It does suck when you've got a heavily armed soldier or a redeemed cultist brimming with powerful spells and you draw some city encounter that ignores all those lovely lovely bonuses.

But, yeah, balancing. There are cards -- mostly allies, I think -- that specifically add to your stats and come in handy during non-combat encounters. But when I'm wrassling a moonbeast in Lost Carcosa, I'd really rather just shoot it with my .45.

-Tom
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Asher Kobin
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It's a little unfortunate that strength is used in two different ways: combat encounters and skill tests. They could have added an additional attribute called "Attack Power" that weapons would have. And when rolling dice for combat encounters, you add strength + attack power. This would allow strength just be a physical attribute that you can test independently of your weapons.
 
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M.C.Crispy
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asherkobin wrote:
It's a little unfortunate that strength is used in two different ways: combat encounters and skill tests. They could have added an additional attribute called "Attack Power" that weapons would have. And when rolling dice for combat encounters, you add strength + attack power. This would allow strength just be a physical attribute that you can test independently of your weapons.
They dealt with that issue by having Combat Checks, where your weapon's bonus to Strength counts - and Strength Checks, where they do not. Two kinds of checks or two kinds of attribute, it works out pretty much the same IMO.
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Jan Probst
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Kiel
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asherkobin wrote:
It's a little unfortunate that strength is used in two different ways: combat encounters and skill tests. They could have added an additional attribute called "Attack Power" that weapons would have. And when rolling dice for combat encounters, you add strength + attack power. This would allow strength just be a physical attribute that you can test independently of your weapons.
Yeah, this is pretty much exactly what happens, just with different labels on the things, so one could maybe get confused if one is aggressively deliberately obtuse.
 
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M.C.Crispy
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Weltenreiter wrote:
asherkobin wrote:
It's a little unfortunate that strength is used in two different ways: combat encounters and skill tests. They could have added an additional attribute called "Attack Power" that weapons would have. And when rolling dice for combat encounters, you add strength + attack power. This would allow strength just be a physical attribute that you can test independently of your weapons.
Yeah, this is pretty much exactly what happens, just with different labels on the things, so one could maybe get confused if one is aggressively deliberately obtuse.
I don't think that's a reasonable or respectful response. I have a good deal of experience with FFG games in general and EH/AH specifically and it still took me some time to get my head around the difference between a [STR] Combat Check and a [STR] Check. More to the point, it took a while to spot which was being called for in any given situation (exactly what led to the OP of this thread).
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Jan Probst
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Kiel
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mccrispy wrote:
I don't think that's a reasonable or respectful response
Yeah, maybe that was a bit agro, sorry.

Still, "str during combat encounters" seems pretty clear to me? FFG rules may have some issues, but just doing what the (rules, not flavor) text says *usually* works out.

Now, having a healthy intuition of what is flavor text and what is not is a good thing to have in general, but that is true for all games and entirely unrelated to FFG. Overvaluing flavor text leads to contamination from common sense, other rule systems, or similar undesirable sources.
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M.C.Crispy
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Weltenreiter wrote:
Now, having a healthy intuition of what is flavor text and what is not is a good thing to have in general, but that is true for all games and entirely unrelated to FFG. Overvaluing flavor text leads to contamination from common sense, other rule systems, or similar undesirable sources.
That's as maybe, but I have lost count of the number of times that I've seen questions on the AH and EH forums as a result of the confusion caused by flavour text. Now, it may be that some folk have their heads on a different way around to you, or it may be that the deliberate attempt by FFG (largely successful IMO) to build story into the game by embedding instruction in flavour can be confusing, ultimately it doesn't matter 'cos some people find that it makes it harder and we should provide assistance when that happens and not judgement.
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Mathias Heilmann
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I assumed that this was the right way to handle things, but I have some people in my playgroup, that like to use common sense when deciding ambigous rules. Especially when the game is heavily themed. So I was looking for some reassurement with the OP.
 
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Jan Probst
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Kiel
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Heilz wrote:
but I have some people in my playgroup, that like to use common sense when deciding ambigous rules.



(Ok ok, I'm exaggerating with my anti-common-sense rhetoric. I still think this is a case of (maybe subconsciously) *disagreeing* with abstracting fighty things into simple rolls, and expressing that disagreement by wanting to see ambiguity where there is none.)
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Tom Chick
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Tujunga
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No offense to Mathias, but one of the quickest ways to break a game is by applying "common sense". The art of game design isn't always compatible with any given person's perception of common sense. :)

-Tom
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M.C.Crispy
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TomChick wrote:
No offense to Mathias, but one of the quickest ways to break a game is by applying "common sense". The art of game design isn't always compatible with any given person's perception of common sense.

-Tom
More to the point: what one person might regard as "common sense" might not appear that way to another person. After all, hopefully the designer used a modicum of common sense in their design process.
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