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Warhammer: Diskwars» Forums » General

Subject: What's the narrative for melee? rss

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MechaBri Zilla
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I was introducing this game to a friend this weekend. We played a very basic game with the pre-built regiments. He said he didn't like the way melee resolved because it gave no bonus to being the aggressor in combat. By which he meant that if he is the first person to charge, and then I pile in on him, he has no chance to do damage to the unit he pinned. Even if he 'should' have killed it. He felt like his unit had charged in and then waited around for other people to pile on before attacking.

I hadn't really thought of it this way, but he does seem to have a point. Now, don't get me wrong, I still love this game, and it certainly won't ruin it for me. But it did get me wondering about the timing and logic of the melee round. From a technical stand point, I think with the deterministic melee results, things would get very boring very quickly if you resolved combat when you pinned. People would play much differently and it would take away a lot of the strategic elements of the game.

But how then do we explain how melee works to someone who is looking for some story/logic behind the resolution. Is it just that a game turn is actually a very short/nearly instantaneous thing in the terms of the battle? Or are we saying that story-wise, the melee is going on the whole time, but maybe the defender is holding things off until reinforcements arrive, regardless as to whether it's a Crossbowman holding off a Bloodthirster?

I tend to like the first idea better, that even though we break things into card draws, what is being represented are nearly simultaneous maneuvers.

Also, do you think the game would have been better, had it given some preferential treatment to the first disks to get stuck in combat? I tend to think it would have over-complicated things, but I could be wrong.
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Ted Swalwell
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I'd say starting from the assumption that turns happen sequentially is a problem: thematically, units tend not to wait around for their 'turn' to move, moving one at a time.

If you assume that all moves happen simultaneously (with units moving later representing your units reacting quickly and responding to developing situations) then it's not so much the crossbowmen 'holding off a bloodthirstier until reinforcement arrive' as much as the 'bloodthirstier charging in not noticing a well placed foe, and then being hit from the side/rear by a well-timed counter-charge after it's committed'.
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Rex Gator
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savantt wrote:
I'd say starting from the assumption that turns happen sequentially is a problem: thematically, units tend not to wait around for their 'turn' to move, moving one at a time.

If you assume that all moves happen simultaneously (with units moving later representing your units reacting quickly and responding to developing situations) then it's not so much the crossbowmen 'holding off a bloodthirstier until reinforcement arrive' as much as the 'bloodthirstier charging in not noticing a well placed foe, and then being hit from the side/rear by a well-timed counter-charge after it's committed'.


This +1. Best way to think of it thematically is that this is all happening nearly simultaneously and represents the ebb and flow of battle.
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Chris Hinkes
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Each disk is a group of dozens on troops. They don't impact and immediately explode (unless of course they have impact!) They clash into melee and are fighting for for a while, slowly killing each other.

Now, if the attacker is suddenly flanked, they are in big trouble and can end up being killed before they finish off the other disk. It all makes perfect sense to me.
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Arturo Cavari
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rexgator wrote:
savantt wrote:
I'd say starting from the assumption that turns happen sequentially is a problem: thematically, units tend not to wait around for their 'turn' to move, moving one at a time.

If you assume that all moves happen simultaneously (with units moving later representing your units reacting quickly and responding to developing situations) then it's not so much the crossbowmen 'holding off a bloodthirstier until reinforcement arrive' as much as the 'bloodthirstier charging in not noticing a well placed foe, and then being hit from the side/rear by a well-timed counter-charge after it's committed'.


This +1. Best way to think of it thematically is that this is all happening nearly simultaneously and represents the ebb and flow of battle.


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MechaBri Zilla
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I think this is the right track.

I think he was feeling a little burned because in a traditional mini's game, one side would be the only one moving and would get to benefit for a round of combat because of that, while the other player had to wait to get his forces into position to provide flanking support. In a specific mismatch this could lead to a block of troops being broken immediately, and so having no effect on the rest of the game, but usually they would be able to hold out for at least a round while the battle develops around them. I think Diskwars is just too quick for that. By which I mean, because melee is deterministic and not random, your units won't be able to hold out for even a single round of fighting in most cases to allow the rest of the battle to develop.

I also think the benefit to charging is built into the fact that they have a separate attack and defense strength, which means that you get your charge bonuses built in.
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Xelto G
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Compared with the origional, WH diskwars gives so many bonuses to the aggressor it isn't funny. You can't activate pinned disks (so you're forced to commit faster, the units by and large tend to have much higher attack than defense ratings, then there's impact, fear, and many other abilities.

Honestly, I liked the balance of first strike and second strike advantage in the origional diskwars better because it was a little less first strike favoring. I'd say that your friend has no need to complain for this one. If he's annoyed at getting cut down by counter attacks when he's charging recklessly then it's probably because he's not used to the tactics.

If his problem is more thematic, then I'd say that he just needs to use his imagination to recreate what's happening not what he thinks should happen. At that point, it'll make sense.
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