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Android: Netrunner» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Help Me Understand rss

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Bryan Zimbardi
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Georgia
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Ok, so here is the modified deck list I am trying to evolve.

I recently replaced Toolbox with Dino, since I can never seem to have the economy to get Toolbox in play.

In my last three OCTGN games, I find myself doing really well in the early game, often picking up an Agenda or two if I'm lucky.

I just added Special Order, though, as I have repeatedly found myself facing an Ice fortress and can't get the breakers out. My draw luck on OCTGN is absolutely horrific, though, and the Special Order is the only way I can think to combat that.

I literally spent the last two games drawing over and over and over, and got SMC in the last 17 cards in the deck, and all three breakers were in the bottom 21 cards. As usual, in the first 4 turns, I pulled out all 3 clone chips. In my last three games, I have drawn all three clone chips in the first 8 turns.

I got Datasucker and parasite out early, which helped stem the flow a bit, but other than bad draw luck, what am I doing wrong?

Deck Created with CardGameDB.com Android: Netrunner Deck Builder

Identity:
Chaos Theory: Wunderkind (Cyber Exodus)


Total Cards: (40)

Event: (16)
Diesel (Core) x3
Indexing (Future Proof) x1
Sure Gamble (Core) x3
Test Run (Cyber Exodus) x3
The Maker's Eye (Core) x1
Scavenge (Creation and Control) x2
Account Siphon (Core) x1 ■■■■
Special Order (Core) x2 ■■

Hardware: (4)
Clone Chip (Creation and Control) x3
Dinosaurus (Cyber Exodus) x1

Program: (10)
Datasucker (Core) x2 ■
Corroder (Core) x1 ■■
Femme Fatale (Core) x1 ■
Torch (Mala Tempora) x1
Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control) x3
Parasite (Core) x1 ■■
ZU.13 Key Master (What Lies Ahead) x1

Resource: (10)
Daily Casts (Creation and Control) x3
Same Old Thing (Creation and Control) x3
Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow) x2
Professional Contacts (Creation and Control) x2

Influence Values Totals -
Anarch: 6
Criminal: 9
Shaper: 51
 
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General Norris
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3x SMC, 3x Diesel withs ome extra support (namely 3x Clone Chip) seems enough to me. I can't imagine having issues with a 40 cards deck and 3 copies of Test Run, you were just unlucky.
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John Fanjoy
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Yeah, 3x Test Run, 3x SMC, and 3x Diesel should be about enough, I probably wouldn't import Special Order. If all of your Test Runs AND SMCs AND icebreakers are in the bottom half of your deck, that kinda sucks, but should be pretty rare.

(In the event you get all your Clone Chips but no SMC in the first half of your deck, when you find a Test Run, consider Test Run -> SMC. Yes, that's horrifically inefficient on credits, but at least it'll help you get your breakers assembled in a hurry.)
 
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Chris Hinkes
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You can also Same Old Thing a Test Run.
 
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Bryan Zimbardi
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Georgia
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General_Norris wrote:
3x SMC, 3x Diesel withs ome extra support (namely 3x Clone Chip) seems enough to me. I can't imagine having issues with a 40 cards deck and 3 copies of Test Run, you were just unlucky.
pe

Ok, so two more games under my belt with that deck - and I reversed the Special Order splash.

I seem to have issues with sustained economy still.

I just don't get it, I guess I can add in Dirty Laundry, but the issue is having no money to make successful runs, which pretty much nips that concept.

I eventually run into 2-3 ice remotes or centrals and have no resources to knock them down. I'm sure it's an issue with how I'm playing the cards but I cannot seem to make heads or tails of it. :/
 
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Dave Kudzma
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I think there are probably two problems at work here, but the first I see is deck cohesion. I think you are going a bit too toolboxy (pardon the pun).

Honestly I do not understand the point of Dinosaurus for you, much less 1 of them. I also see two different code gate breakers; I would drop the Yog and go +1 on the Scavenges. That way you can Test Run + Scavenge your Torch and Femme easy.

Economy-wise you might try switching up what you're using. Perhaps dropping Kati in favor of Magnum Opus which you can also Test Run Scavenge if you want to.

I would lose the Special Orders and add +2 Maker's Eye. Drop the Parasite too and you could have a second Syphon.

By my count that leaves 1 inf and 1 slot empty, perfect for a Stimhack for maximum surprise when they think their Glacier will keep you out.

Just some thoughts. As for the second problem? Probably pacing. Experience will get you there. Most people that think their economy is lacking are not running at the right times. I think you'll find that Magnum Opus will help you recover quickly if you do make a mistake one turn and break yourself; you could click 3 times to gain 6 and Stimhack for 9 more the way I showed above, and right when they think they are safe. devil
 
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Bryan Zimbardi
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locusshifter wrote:
I think there are probably two problems at work here, but the first I see is deck cohesion. I think you are going a bit too toolboxy (pardon the pun).

Honestly I do not understand the point of Dinosaurus for you, much less 1 of them. I also see two different code gate breakers; I would drop the Yog and go +1 on the Scavenges. That way you can Test Run + Scavenge your Torch and Femme easy.

Economy-wise you might try switching up what you're using. Perhaps dropping Kati in favor of Magnum Opus which you can also Test Run Scavenge if you want to.

I would lose the Special Orders and add +2 Maker's Eye. Drop the Parasite too and you could have a second Syphon.

By my count that leaves 1 inf and 1 slot empty, perfect for a Stimhack for maximum surprise when they think their Glacier will keep you out.

Just some thoughts. As for the second problem? Probably pacing. Experience will get you there. Most people that think their economy is lacking are not running at the right times. I think you'll find that Magnum Opus will help you recover quickly if you do make a mistake one turn and break yourself; you could click 3 times to gain 6 and Stimhack for 9 more the way I showed above, and right when they think they are safe. devil


Ok, so I made a few changes based on your ideas - what do you think?

I added a couple Dirty Laundry in case one comes up early, otherwise I'll save it for when I am going to trash an unprotected asset or something.

I switched out Kati for Opus, dropped console entirely, Chaos gives an extra memory anyways.

Added another Index, and a Stimhack, dropping ZU.13 in the process.

I added back an Inside Job, since I seem to have some luck with that.

I also reduced the clone chips since I seem to ALWAYS have one available.

In reference to problem 2 - I think you're correct. I hope I can learn this pacing aspect better as I get more games behind me.

Deck Created with CardGameDB.com Android: Netrunner Deck Builder

Identity:
Chaos Theory: Wunderkind (Cyber Exodus)


Total Cards: (42)

Event: (23)
Diesel (Core) x3
Indexing (Future Proof) x2
Sure Gamble (Core) x3
Test Run (Cyber Exodus) x3
The Maker's Eye (Core) x2
Scavenge (Creation and Control) x3
Lucky Find (Double Time) x3 ■■
Stimhack (Core) x1 ■
Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control) x2
Inside Job (Core) x1 ■■■

Hardware: (1)
Clone Chip (Creation and Control) x1

Program: (10)
Datasucker (Core) x2 ■
Corroder (Core) x1 ■■
Femme Fatale (Core) x1 ■
Torch (Mala Tempora) x1
Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control) x2
Magnum Opus (Core) x3

Resource: (8)
Daily Casts (Creation and Control) x3
Same Old Thing (Creation and Control) x3
Professional Contacts (Creation and Control) x2

Influence Values Totals -
Anarch: 5
Criminal: 4
Shaper: 53




 
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Dave Kudzma
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bzinfinity wrote:
locusshifter wrote:
I think there are probably two problems at work here, but the first I see is deck cohesion. I think you are going a bit too toolboxy (pardon the pun).

Honestly I do not understand the point of Dinosaurus for you, much less 1 of them. I also see two different code gate breakers; I would drop the Yog and go +1 on the Scavenges. That way you can Test Run + Scavenge your Torch and Femme easy.

Economy-wise you might try switching up what you're using. Perhaps dropping Kati in favor of Magnum Opus which you can also Test Run Scavenge if you want to.

I would lose the Special Orders and add +2 Maker's Eye. Drop the Parasite too and you could have a second Syphon.

By my count that leaves 1 inf and 1 slot empty, perfect for a Stimhack for maximum surprise when they think their Glacier will keep you out.

Just some thoughts. As for the second problem? Probably pacing. Experience will get you there. Most people that think their economy is lacking are not running at the right times. I think you'll find that Magnum Opus will help you recover quickly if you do make a mistake one turn and break yourself; you could click 3 times to gain 6 and Stimhack for 9 more the way I showed above, and right when they think they are safe. devil


Ok, so I made a few changes based on your ideas - what do you think?

I added a couple Dirty Laundry in case one comes up early, otherwise I'll save it for when I am going to trash an unprotected asset or something.

I switched out Kati for Opus, dropped console entirely, Chaos gives an extra memory anyways.

Added another Index, and a Stimhack, dropping ZU.13 in the process.

I added back an Inside Job, since I seem to have some luck with that.

I also reduced the clone chips since I seem to ALWAYS have one available.

In reference to problem 2 - I think you're correct. I hope I can learn this pacing aspect better as I get more games behind me.

Deck Created with CardGameDB.com Android: Netrunner Deck Builder

Identity:
Chaos Theory: Wunderkind (Cyber Exodus)


Total Cards: (42)

Event: (23)
Diesel (Core) x3
Indexing (Future Proof) x2
Sure Gamble (Core) x3
Test Run (Cyber Exodus) x3
The Maker's Eye (Core) x2
Scavenge (Creation and Control) x3
Lucky Find (Double Time) x3 ■■
Stimhack (Core) x1 ■
Dirty Laundry (Creation and Control) x2
Inside Job (Core) x1 ■■■

Hardware: (1)
Clone Chip (Creation and Control) x1

Program: (10)
Datasucker (Core) x2 ■
Corroder (Core) x1 ■■
Femme Fatale (Core) x1 ■
Torch (Mala Tempora) x1
Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control) x2
Magnum Opus (Core) x3

Resource: (8)
Daily Casts (Creation and Control) x3
Same Old Thing (Creation and Control) x3
Professional Contacts (Creation and Control) x2

Influence Values Totals -
Anarch: 5
Criminal: 4
Shaper: 53



I used to use Inside Job with CT as well, but there's just one problem; you keep throwing just one of this or that in, and if you want that card to be part of your attack you need more than one. It's why I recommended going heavier on the Eyes and Syphons; you seemed to want those attacks, so it's prudent to have more than one. Now, that doesn't mean you need three, and you can always splash just one, but if you want to see that card on even a semi-regular basis then you want 2-3.

On Programs:

I see you have 3 Opus. You really do not need more than one of any program (save the Suckers). In time you'll see that having 3 Test Run, 3 SMC, and 3 Diesel will get you everything you need. What you have to realize is that you need to be reactive with those tutors and not just fetch willie-nillie. Fetch them on an as-needed basis and 1 of each is perfect, and it saves space for other things. Your safety net then is the Chips, which I would say you should have 2 of.

I would drop 2 Opus and drop 1 SMC and one chip and see how it goes. You've got a crap-ton of economy now; which is NEVER a bad thing.

 
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Jacek Wieszaczewski
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locusshifter wrote:
I see you have 3 Opus.

You need every single Opus you can. I would play 4 of them if allowed

Installing Opus off Test Run is simply awful. That's 3 clicks (one to play Test Run, one to draw Opus next turn, one to install it) and 8 credits spent. Installing Opus off Test Run/Scavenge is better, but this is much better used on installing Torch or Femme Fatale. Installing Opus off SMC is not that bad (1 click and 7 credits) but still it's a bit of a tempo hit when compared to installing Opus from hand.

More room in this deck can IMO be found by cutting other economy. Opus will give you all the cash you need at reasonable pace. I often play 3x Opus, 3x Sure Gamble and no other econ except maybe Stimhack in my CT decks (and of course I always have 3 SMC and 3 Diesel to find my Opus quickly). Removing Dirty Laundry, Lucky Find, Professional Contacts and some/all of Daily casts is 6 extra influence and 8-10 card slots, giving the deck potential to improve (for example to add some MU cards and some tricks that are often useful, like 2nd Inside Job, a Legwork, an Escher and so on).
 
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Bryan Zimbardi
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Georgia
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hsiale wrote:
locusshifter wrote:
I see you have 3 Opus.

You need every single Opus you can. I would play 4 of them if allowed

Installing Opus off Test Run is simply awful. That's 3 clicks (one to play Test Run, one to draw Opus next turn, one to install it) and 8 credits spent. Installing Opus off Test Run/Scavenge is better, but this is much better used on installing Torch or Femme Fatale. Installing Opus off SMC is not that bad (1 click and 7 credits) but still it's a bit of a tempo hit when compared to installing Opus from hand.

More room in this deck can IMO be found by cutting other economy. Opus will give you all the cash you need at reasonable pace. I often play 3x Opus, 3x Sure Gamble and no other econ except maybe Stimhack in my CT decks (and of course I always have 3 SMC and 3 Diesel to find my Opus quickly). Removing Dirty Laundry, Lucky Find, Professional Contacts and some/all of Daily casts is 6 extra influence and 8-10 card slots, giving the deck potential to improve (for example to add some MU cards and some tricks that are often useful, like 2nd Inside Job, a Legwork, an Escher and so on).


Despite my economy problems, I am liking this idea.

I may make a second version of this deck that cuts event economy in favor of event actions.

Although I do see merit in what was said above as well, I may be over-placing some of these cards when I could clone chipx3 and cover Opus as well as breakers.

Man, so much to take in!

I will have to make two modified decks with these ideas and see which I like better.

Thank you guys so much for the help!
 
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Dave Kudzma
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Quote:
hsiale wrote:
[q="locusshifter"]I see you have 3 Opus.

You need every single Opus you can. I would play 4 of them if allowed


Opus is expensive and click intensive, and also not right for every build. TR -> Scavenge for an Opus is a fine move if you have plenty of other economy.
 
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