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Subject: Did you hear? The real Heroquest KS is coming late this summer! rss

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Matt Price
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OK. I'm sort of lying. But Mantic is kicking off their not-Heroquest kickstarter this July. Lead a party of adventurers through a dungeon. Basic rules and advanced rules. Play either vs with an evil player, or coop with A.I. for the dungeon denizens. The boxed set sounds like it comes with a few heroes and lots of undead critters (undead troll? yes please!). Rules and stats planned for every Kings of War (i.e., fantasy) figure that Mantic makes.

Lots more details and some cool photos here:

http://forum.manticblog.com/showthread.php?8233-DKH-News-and...

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And all they had to do was not name it Heroquest! Brilliant.

Sounds more like their skirmish game's rules adapted for dungeon delving, is that right?

EDIT: Ah no I see, this is an expansion of one of their existing games, where it's a head to head competition between 2 players.
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Matt Price
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No kidding, right?

This one should include AI rules, so players can play co-op instead of head-to-head like the previous versions of the game. From what I'm gathering, the game will come (?) with both options for players.
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Joe Reil
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They haven't even launched their KS and it looks like they're showing more actual completed work than GZ has even now. whistle
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This is BS. Obviously a ripoff of GZ's Heroquest 25th Anniversary Edition. Anyone who disagrees hates Spain.
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Idaho11 wrote:
This is BS. Obviously a ripoff of GZ's Heroquest 25th Anniversary Edition. Anyone who disagrees hates Spain.
Nobody expects the Mantic inquisition!

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Matt Price
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WHERE did you get those figures?!?!

I gotta get me some!
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Dwarf Kings Hold is also an existing game system, so you can read the reviews of the previous versions. If you subscribe to Mantic's mailing list, they occasionally have a sale and sometimes this includes DKH. DKH is a miniatures skirmish game (each player has a small army), but it looks like Mantic's going to adapt it to a dungeoncrawler (party of players vs. dungeon master or AI).

The thread mentions a rulebooklet which will give stats for existing Mantic miniatures. Pretty obviously, since this is generic fantasy, I can use my Reaper Bones as well! Pledge starts as $95, and, rather than early birds, anyone who pledges on the first weekend gets a free exclusive mini!

And coop rules. And "each player controls a hero and pursues their own goals". Heheh.

EDIT: Sorta tad ironic that DKH was mentioned in a GZ thread, because Mantic's been seen as a GW miniatures knock-off, including its early Warpath 40K-clone universe. CEO Ronnie Renton worked for GW for 15+ years, last position there as Global Marketing Director. I'm impressed that, after only five or so years, they've created a good number of their own game systems, such as Loka and DKH.

EDIT: Stephen Gibson mentioned that the rules for the DKH games are available for $5 at Wargamevault. Not clear if you can PnP from the rules.
http://www.wargamevault.com/browse.php?manufacturers_id=4117...

EDIT: Not much info, but tracked down Jake's Quickworthy Q&A about DKH:
http://quirkworthy.com/dwarf-kings-hold-series-resources/
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mattprice wrote:
WHERE did you get those figures?!?!

I gotta get me some!


Those are by Victoria Lamb
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Chris Marlow
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This is truly fantastic news. Mantic are a great bunch of guys, the fantasy miniatures they already make are excellent, and AMAZING value for money. (Unlike another Nottingham based company that I could mention!)
Their Kings of War tabletop battle system is a brave, and much needed attempt to move on from Warhammer Fantasy Battle. It is much simpler (couldn't really fail to be could it!?)but for me at least, hasn't quite got it right. For example you don't kill things directly - they are "routed" and thus removed from the game. This feels odd for large creatures, and powerful characters. Also, the way successive rounds of hand to hand combat are resolved is a bit strange. They are obviously still finding their feet in the games design business, and I can't wait to see how this new development of their existing Dwarf Hold system turns out.
 
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Was very unimpressed with my several plays of Dwarf King's Hold. It wasn't bad but it was very average with not a whole lot going for it (and the worse dungeon tiles of any actual dungeon crawler in print).

This could be very good if they bring the quality that's been in their Kickstarter releases. I hope the rules are a bit better/more tense though.
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Chris Marlow
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Yes, I think you've hit the nail on the head there - all their present rules systems are a bit mediocre somehow. Alessio Cavatore is put forward as a Games Designer, and has certainly done many years with GW but for me at least his stuff doesn't have that "spark" somehow. Perhaps it is because they like to involve lots of feed-back from the public during the design process? I've always thought this gives rise to a bit of a mongrel of a game. The camel - a horse designed by committee
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Well, for my part I really like their Dreadball's gameplay. Simple and smooth. And their main game designer isn't Alessio, if I remember well (main in terms of number of games designed for them), but Jake Thornton (Dreadball, Deadzone, etc.).
 
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Matt Price
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Jake rather than Alessio is doing this version of DKH (but then, he did the previous versions too - so if you didn't like them, this might not be the game you've been waiting for).

I also thought Kings of War was fun, but not blow-your-mind great. What did come a lot closer was Jake's Deadzone. It's really fun, and I'm hoping some of those lessons he's learning with time get ported over to DKHIV. From what I gather following his blog, that might be the case.
 
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That's roughly my opinion of the Mantic rules: Dwarf Kings Hold, its cousin Project Pandora and Kings of War are okay, in the faintly damning sense of the word. Interesting, simple, neat systems, but those qualities result in only decent, not great games. Deadzone, however, is quite clever. I can't speak for Dreadball.

So what sort of game we'll see from Mantic is up in the air. They seem to have become addicted to Kickstarter, so that's a slightly worrying aspect, although delivery has stayed under control thus far.
 
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More info on DKH4, from the designer. Boo yeah.

Quote:
Depending on what I can get Ronnie to agree to, there will hopefully be some back-stabbing going on among the adventurers as well as co-operative play, simply because I find that more entertaining. Pure co-ops have a number of issues that have a habit of reducing my fun, so I’d like to avoid that.

The game will be launched as a Kickstarter some time at the end of July or August. At least, that’s Ronnie’s latest estimate. I don’t think a firm date has been set yet. They’re aiming at a $95-ish sweet spot pledge and the latest idea was to have an early bird that gained you an extra model rather than a small discount. This would be time-based rather than limited in quantity, so something like everyone who pledges on the first weekend gets a LE model. That sort of thing. To me, this sounds like a much better idea as I think that a few dollars off isn’t nearly as cool as an exclusive model. I wish more people did this (especially the projects I pledge for myself).

Dwarf King’s Hold 4 is really two games in one. The first is a simple and fast game where you are given a story and a puzzle (in the form of a scenario), and the tools to unlock it (in the form of heroes). The miniatures will be pre-assembled or single piece, the dungeons planned out for you, the bad guys and heroes’ stats calculated, and each scenario balanced. This is much like DKH 1 and 2, with added heroes. As the story unfolds, both sides grow in strength and experience, with this all being pre-calculated and balanced. All you need to do is set up and play.

The second game is a sandbox. Or, as Ronnie keeps calling the rules, the Book of Depravity. This is where everything becomes an option. Instead of a specific, named individual Dwarf hero, you get the ability to design your own. When you gain experience, you get to choose how you improve. There will be stats for all the models in the Kings Of War range, stuff to do between adventures, items to buy (loot to buy them with), doors to unlock, more spells to conjure, traps to set and so on. You get the idea.


EDIT: I *HIGHLY* suggest making your voice known in the blog. The designer doesn't sound particularly aware of the demand for coop dungeoncrawling and Mantic of the popularity of female figures. (Anyone care about Mantic's limited edition figure as a weekend early bird?) http://quirkworthy.com/2014/05/28/dwarf-kings-hold-4-some-in...

EDIT EDIT: DKH game designer column discussing what mechanics make a good coop: http://quirkworthy.com/2014/06/07/what-makes-a-good-pure-co-...

EDIT EDIT EDIT: Interview (and fuzzy facial hair) on Quirkworthy: http://quirkworthy.com/2014/06/05/talking-about-dkh-4/
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Mantic never seem to hit the spot for me. I think their games are too generic. So this one doesn't really excite me.
 
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Kellar wrote:
High Flying Bird wrote:
Mantic never seem to hit the spot for me. I think their games are too generic. So this one doesn't really excite me.


Heroquest has a generic fantasy theme. Lol.



It doesn't take much to make you laugh out loud does it?

Hero Quest is generic in it's fantasy theme, yes... but when it came out it was a unique GAME. A Mantic dungeon crawl will not inherently be so, without some new idea. And the Mantic games I am familiar with do not bring any to the table. Thus, I have low expectations for any new dungeon crawl game they may come up with.

Genre applies to more than just theme: a game mechanic is also a genre. Dungeon crawl is a genre. Mantic's games are highly generic in their game mechanics. Do you want me to make my meaning even more obvious to you or are you too busy laughing out loud at your own fatuousness?

 
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Kellar wrote:
High Flying Bird wrote:
Mantic never seem to hit the spot for me. I think their games are too generic. So this one doesn't really excite me.


Heroquest has a generic fantasy theme. Lol.


Actually even at the time GW's IP (which HQ is based on) was quite rich.
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Garry Larkus
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Kellar wrote:
High Flying Bird wrote:
Mantic never seem to hit the spot for me. I think their games are too generic. So this one doesn't really excite me.


Heroquest has a generic fantasy theme. Lol.


True. The most generic, actually. Since it's preeetty much directly based on the father of our modern high fantasy fiction...

Which is a great thing and makes the world of Warhammer one of the best and richest for me.
 
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fyi, DKH4 now has its own BGG entry. Not much there now, but links to articles, such as...

Quote:
The title is ‘Dwarf Kings Quest – Return of the Necromancer’ (#DKQ on Twitter and Facebook!) and it charts the return of Mortibris as he comes back, bigger and badder than ever. The adventurers – a dwarf fighter, barbarian, wizard and elf – have quests to complete against ever stronger enemies – which will all come in the box pre-assembled and coloured so you can take them out and start playing immediately, while still being of the quality that they will look even better with some paint on them. The skeletons and zombies will be in our normal 30mm scale – so you can use them as leaders in your normal Kings of War games – and indeed you can use the other models to bulk out your dungeons!
Alongside the regular troops will be a series of boss enemy models – such as Mortibris himself – so you really get a sense of the adventure escalating as each scenario progresses.

However, once you have played these through you can delve deeper and darker – which is why we intend you to actually have a piece of card under the main game box, so that it is split in two. Underneath the almost casual narrative campaign, we’ve added something extra.
WizardThe card is a trap door that says ‘Abandon hope all ye who enter here’ – and beneath it is another tray of game components. These open the game up, to really give you access to the whole sandbox, allowing you to go on and create your own quests, using the tiles, models and rules provided. This also offers character development, creating a setting where your hero can build up their skills and equipment over time as they acquire treasure and experience, making each character, and playthrough truly individual. We’ll include a character pack, more hero models – and a big book with all the extra rules enclosed.
I think the book will end up being called something sensible that describes what it does – but I have a working title – ‘Jake’s Book of Depravity’ as he will really get to go to town on build a truly multi-layer miniatures based RPG.

We will be using thicker card than in the first series of games too, just to give the dungeon a more solid and resilient feel, and of course, we will have everything else you need in the box such as adventure and treasure cards, character sheets, gold, furniture and much more.


http://manticblog.com/2014/06/23/dkq-abandon-hope-all-ye-who...

Designer's blog: http://quirkworthy.com/
The designer said there will be coop, possibly as a stretch goal (harumpth).

DKH forum: http://forum.manticblog.com/forumdisplay.php?20-General-Disc...
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Mantic is starting a teaser tomorrow:

from here near the bottom of the page:

"I thought you would appreciate the early warning and a few sneak peeks. We will have a teaser campaign starting the 4th July – which will be a quest to find runes – easily translated by our Dwarf Bartender (because ALL good quests start in a Tavern!). These will lead you to the ‘the Book of the Rise and Fall of Diffeth’ – and your quest will begin. :-) "
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Dungeon Saga (the new name for the upgraded DKH game) has had its alpha rules posted! The rules are PnP and include two training scenarios, and the first campagin scenario. Mechanics are pretty entry-level, although I like the "bone pile" tactics, and Necromancer (DM) interrupt cards. No coop rules yet.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga...
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Sam and Max wrote:
Dungeon Saga (the new name for the upgraded DKH game) has had its alpha rules posted! The rules are PnP and include two training scenarios, and the first campagin scenario. Mechanics are pretty entry-level, although I like the "bone pile" tactics, and Necromancer (DM) interrupt cards. No coop rules yet.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1744629938/dungeon-saga...


TBH I don't mind simple base mechanics at all. As long as they do interesting things with those base mechanics. I'm watching this, definitely backing if they unlock the full co-op DM-less mode that Thornton has talked about on his blog.
 
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