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Subject: New map for 9 players with a part of Essos added rss

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Victor Kostin
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Hello everyone!
I'd like to introduce the new 9 player map with a western part of Essos as a part of the Game of Thrones battleground.


Setting:
This add-on includes:
- the new map
- two lists to print two-sided A4 list with 7 Targaryen House cards
- two lists to print two-sided A4 list with 7 Tully and 1 Stark House cards
- two lists to print two-sided A4 list with 9 starting cards for all the Houses
- Three lists with prints on adhesive letter (I hope I've translated the term correctly) for Targarien&Tully&Arryn power tokens, orders, victory tokens, supply tokens, Home garrisons, new neutral garrisons (Dreadfort and Braavos)

Rules:
This add-on includes a new map based on the map of the 2nd edition. The black borders sorrounded by thin white lines are impassable and represent impassable mountaint ridges. Same was made for impassable swamp borders. Arryn player plays with the cards from Feast For Crows expansion. Targaryen and Tully use new House Cards.

The game lasts 10 turns - same as in the vanilla game. The number of troops available hasn't increased as well. The supply track remained the same.
The numbers on the wildlings track have increased by 1,5 times (same as players number).

History:
I've had an intention to make a 9p map for a long period of time. My core aim was to make it like a classic one. With no empty areas. With all the areas being as reach as in a core game.

The easiest way was to multiply all the game numeric values and build up a final map based on the numbers obtained.

There were also several things I wanted to add:
1. The Eyrie should be a really well-fortified place as it was in the book.
2. Winterfell should not be water-accessed beacuse I hardly understand the naval attack on it. Yes, I remember the book where Theon captured it. But for me it looks like Starks moved all the forces from Winterfell and then Theon took it without battle. Not with a naval attack.
3. Daenerys should start in Pentos. This was a tough decision. By the end of the 3rd book Daenerys hasn't returned home. It was quite hard to make her start on Meerin - it is located too far. I was thinking about such a position as well. But finally decided that Illyrio will support her just from Pentos but not as her General on House Card.
4. Castrly Rock should not have access to sea. This should harden Greyjoy's attack on Lannisters and would help Lannisters survive.
5. The new position of Lannisters shouldn't harm Tyrells. They are quite weak on the start of core game. And empowering their neighbours shouldn't harm them.
6. Tully may start with no ships. This would enter some new features to all the game and would not increase the tension in the western seas which is already extremely big.
7. Targaryens should have a real opportunity of invasion on Westeros.

So the first step was to look what we have in the core game.
There is one quite strict rule of the core map - each player has castles with 5 mustering points. The situation can change of course. But in a peace and fair game this is true.

There are 10 castles and 10 strongholds on the map. They turned to 15+15. There were 38 areas with 19 crown icons and 24 barrel icons. And they should have turned to 57 areas with 28/29 crown icons and 36 barrel icons.

The real situation was not the same and had a lot of tricky moments.
The first problems came out with a 5-mustering-points rule. I wanted to move Baratheons to Strom's End. King's Landing and Dragonstone remained in the domain of their authority as well. Crackclaw point was obvoiusly removed. Dragonstone was a mighty fortress. King's Landing had extreme mustering abilities. Storm's End was Baratheons starting territory. Finally Dragonstone was sacrificed due to it's weak mustering abilities.

The second situation was of defining Tullies domain of control. Riverrun of course. Harrenhal. The Twins. Seagard. All the riverlands were ruled by Tullies. But in that case Greyjoy would really suffer from losing Seagard. On of the ideas was to introduce Harlow. That would strengthen Greyjoys position with one more non-raidable area. On the other hand I desperatly wanted to make Harrenhal a stronghold (it was really huge, with high mustering abilities) and give the Twins a castle at least. So finally I decided to remain Seagard in Greyjoys domain but downgraded it to lure Tully a bit less. As a counteraction I added castle to the Twins and upgraded Harrenhal and Flints Finger to Strongholds. I also added an area of Whispering Wood for Riverrun not to be accessed from sea to protect Tully as well.

The King's Court track stars number was also a key question. I've decided to broaden it. Drew a graph through poistions in core game and placed new points for 9 players. As a result 1, 2 and 3rd positions got 3 stars each, 3 last ones go no stars. The fourth got 2, the sixth - 1. And the fifth got 1,5. I finally decided to give him the remaining half-star in a severe world of game of thrones (becaused this position was left for Tully). I tried to give positions due to my vision of influence on Court (except Tully) but with no changes against core game. Arryn was placed first for two reasons - to weaken Lannisters in a possible conflict with no-star Tyrell and because the influence of Petyr Baelysh was really enormous. The Targaryence had no influence on King's Court. Of course they had Varys but not sure if he would help them in such a situations. So I placed them on the last position. I did not want to give Baratheons two stars so they got 6th place and Tullys placed tight above.

The position on Iron Throne track was conducted from the possibility and rights of taking it. The first position for the former ruled House (Baratheon), the second - for his relatives (kings widow Lannister). The third was given to the former kings Targaryens. The fourth for the fiance of the new king Joffrey Baratheon - Starks. The fifth for Martells with Elia and a real opportunity of capturing the rule by force. The sixth place got the Greyjoys with force, the seventh - Tyrells having almost nothing. ANd only then Arryn and Tully.

The position on Fieldoms track was chosen to balance the map, starting troops and stars:
Greyjoy - Targaryen - Tyrell - Tully - Martell - Arryn - Stark - Baratheon - Lannister

The mountain ridges in the riverlands were not to make Lannister and Tully too close positioned to each other. Same with Lannister-Tyrell position. I forced Lannisters either not to muster or to attack only on turn 3.

A tricky question was with Targaryens. They got 4 castles/strongholds on Essos. But how should they win? Pushing Baratheon sea is a hard thing. Same for Martells. So I gave them an opportunity to muster ships on west, south and north for them to choose a place of invasion - Dorne, Stormlands or Northlands.

Starks got almost all of the lands taken by Arryns. But now keeping west cast protected with fleet becomes a more tricky challange.

At the end I failed to reach a result of 57 land areas with proper number of crowns and barrels but came to it as close as possible.

Decks


The decks deserve a special section. I've been thinking about all of the abilities for a very long time.
As for Targaryens deck I wanted to make ot powerful. Powerful enough to stand 1st turn attack of Baratheon and live several first turns without star orders.
I wanted to highlight dragons and that's why I've given Daenerys sword+skull icons. I've given them only 1 fortification for ser Jorah (don't like this person so he turned into a weak CS2 card), but interesting abilities for ser Barristan, Varys and Rakharo.
Some words about a skull on CS4 card. A skull+sword differs from sword+sword in two cases - when you win versus 2+ fortifications or when you lose. Losing with a most powerful card is bad situation. This weakens the whole effect. And the only 2+ fortification card is ser Rodrick.

Tullys deck was made as a defensive one. It has a lot of fortifications and only one sword icon on CS2 card (with one conditional on CS1 card and several conditional on CS0 card). The ability of Edmure is also quite powerful. The problem is that it is placed on a 4CS card and a loss with most powerful card... See words above

This card hasn't been tested yet - will test ot on 31st of May only...

Looking forward to your replyies. The whole archieve you can find here:
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/103181/a-9-player-variant-...
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Ceiteach Mac
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Absolutely amazing!

I haven't read through it all just yet, but it looks great. Somebody should host this as a PBF
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Aaron T
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Yes, yes, and Yes. Some mod wants to move armies around this map. I will gladly be a player! Who else knows about fiddle maps? Who can turn this into a fiddle map? Dave42 (creator of the fiddle map) has not logged in since February. Can anybody out there help?
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Mattias R
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Awesome.
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Erik Amberger
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Looks good, except for a few things.
Baratheon seems pretty weak, since he starts with only one Supply, limited access to castles and Martell can easily hold Rainwood and Boneway with support from Sea of Dorne.
Stark could get really strong, if he can control the narrow sea and support from the Bite, but cutting Winterfell off from both seas makes that almost impossible.
Even special-order mustering there in the first turn is risky, since you´ll lose one mustering point, if that card comes up.
Arryn has the same problem in the Eyrie and later the Vale.
Greyjoy seems strong as ever. Little resistance from Stark overseas and he will still drive Lannister from Lannisport. Lannister can retreat inland, but loses his strong support area, that he had in stoney sept. Tyrell can hold Sea Road Marches with support from the Redwyne Straights, making it a (maybe too) powerful support area.
Eager to see how Tully and Arryn will fit into this.
Targaryen has to wait for a muster or Clash of Kings to really do anything.
The "Orange Bay" makes conquering Essos really hard and costly, isn´t necessary in my opinion. But again, if Targaryen fails to muster any ships and his seas get occupied by Stark, Baratheon or Martell in the first few turns, he might be trapped in Essos for the whole game. Maybe the Dragons can deal with that.
No one will bother to visit Braavos and even if you do, you will always get raided there.
I´m not a fan of the black territory lines, especially around moat cailin and the boneway. Just takes away too many possibilities.
I hope I didn´t sound too negative. I know there´s a lot of work and consideration put into this, as I´m working on a similar project myself. You´ll just have to playtest your game a few times and see if it needs some tweaking. That´s just my evaluation based solely on base game experience. Good luck
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Victor Kostin
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Colonel Tigh wrote:
Looks good, except for a few things.
Baratheon seems pretty weak, since he starts with only one Supply, limited access to castles and Martell can easily hold Rainwood and Boneway with support from Sea of Dorne.

This is true. I haven't found a way out of a problem between making Bara's positions stronger but not enough strong to wipe out Targaryen on first turns. On the other hand, I'd say that his positions in castles have improved from vanilla game. It became easyer for him to hold Dragonstone, Storm's End and King's Landing. On the other hand, he has lost access to Crackclaw. But this one should be tested anyway. He still has Reach, Harranhal and Arryn nearby.
Colonel Tigh wrote:
Stark could get really strong, if he can control the narrow sea and support from the Bite, but cutting Winterfell off from both seas makes that almost impossible.
Even special-order mustering there in the first turn is risky, since you´ll lose one mustering point, if that card comes up.

I don't think he can become too powerful. No sea access from Winterfell makes his sea superiority not that certain. On the other hand he has Deepwood that can be quite easily taken by Greyjoy. I think that winning for him may be quite a hard thing.
Colonel Tigh wrote:
Arryn has the same problem in the Eyrie and later the Vale.

Arryn seems to be the same as in the book. With good defensive positions. But their attacking opportunities seem uncertain. Especially with Tully nearby. Maybe an alliance with Greyjoy versus Tully may help. Dunno.
Colonel Tigh wrote:
Greyjoy seems strong as ever. Little resistance from Stark overseas and he will still drive Lannister from Lannisport. Lannister can retreat inland, but loses his strong support area, that he had in stoney sept.

He is still strong. But Tully's House cards are not much weaker and made specially to stand against Greyjoy (Mallister versus Victarion, Frey and Blackfish against Balon). On the other hand a rush against Lannister may give him Lannisport and maybe Banefort. But that is not Lannisport and Riverrun from core game. And battle on land territories will not give Greyjoy that much advantage.

The thing your words forced me to think about is a fight of Lannister against Greyjoy-Tully alliance. Have to think a lot about it...

Colonel Tigh wrote:
Tyrell can hold Sea Road Marches with support from the Redwyne Straights, making it a (maybe too) powerful support area.

This is one more thing I didn't admit as well - just wanted Highgarden to be protected from WSS attack.
Colonel Tigh wrote:
Eager to see how Tully and Arryn will fit into this.
Targaryen has to wait for a muster or Clash of Kings to really do anything.
The "Orange Bay" makes conquering Essos really hard and costly, isn´t necessary in my opinion. But again, if Targaryen fails to muster any ships and his seas get occupied by Stark, Baratheon or Martell in the first few turns, he might be trapped in Essos for the whole game. Maybe the Dragons can deal with that.

This is another question that I want to test. This isolation really bothers me and I haven't found a way out still...
Colonel Tigh wrote:
No one will bother to visit Braavos and even if you do, you will always get raided there.

Braavos still has two power icons that give two tokens during GoT. And if Arryn takes it, moves a bit further on Essos and takes high position on IT to raid Stark the area can be used. And before that it just keeps Arryn from early Arryn Essos expansion.
Colonel Tigh wrote:
I´m not a fan of the black territory lines, especially around moat cailin and the boneway. Just takes away too many possibilities.

I will think about the Boneway - looks like you are right. But I still want to keep the Eyrie isolated.
Colonel Tigh wrote:
I hope I didn´t sound too negative. I know there´s a lot of work and consideration put into this, as I´m working on a similar project myself. You´ll just have to playtest your game a few times and see if it needs some tweaking. That´s just my evaluation based solely on base game experience. Good luck

I am very greatful to youe response. It is very useful to get such a feedback.
On the 31st fo May I will hold the first play test and then will publish here the results.
 
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Ceiteach Mac
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How did this work out for you?
 
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Victor Kostin
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That was a realy interesting game.

Greyjoy attacked Lannister from the beginning, Lannister made several severe mistakes. Others remained quite peaceeful.
On the 3rd turn two wars began - Tully attacked Greyjoy and taken Seagard, Targaryen faced Martell on the battlefield in the Disputed Lands. On the turn 5 Baratheon attacked Tyrell and started pushing him back. Arryn was sitting behind waiting for a better moment. At the end on turn 9 both Greyjoy and Stark had 6 VPs (Stark captured the Twins and Norvos + 4 natural, Greyjoy captured Lannisport, Banefort and Casterly Rock + 3 natural), Tyrell got back Reach, Martell pushed Targaryen from Volantis and Myr, but Trag has retaken Myr. Arryn was waiting.
On the turn 10 Greyjoy was attacked by both Tully and Baratheon (who has taken Casterly Rock), Stark - by Arryn and Targaryen. The game ended with Greyjoy's victory with 5 VPs (Pyke, Flint's Finger, Banefort, Lannisport, Seagard) followed by Stark (Winterfell, White Harbor, Deepwood, Moat Cailin and Norvos) and Baratheon (Storm's End, Dragonstone, King's Landing, Casterly Rock).

An interesting game where Greyjoy faced Lannister, Tully and Stark at one time (but was a bit supported by Tyrell) and had enough skills to handle the situation.

The game showed:
1. It is not that hard for Greyjoy to capture the Golden Sound. From that moment Banefort is very hard to capture by both Tully and Lannister.
2. It is extremely hard to fights versus Targaryen due to strong deck (especially Daenerys).
3. It is quite hard for Baratheon to hold all of his naval areas. Only good diplomacy can help. In return Baratheon gets a good area for consolidating on Dragonstone. That helped Baratheon to remain on the top of the track during the whole game.
4. Targaryen needs a better way to moe towards Westeros. The best way that seems now is to make possible to move from Sea of Myrth to East Summer Sea and to unite Orange Bay and Bay of Royne.
5. Tully seemed to be OK in his position.
6. Banefort seems to be Greyjoys castle. So looks like Flint's may become a small one and Lannisport a big one.
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Alex Berry
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Looking at the map, it does look like Targaryen is going to have a hard time getting into Westeros, as there are 9(!)seas bordering Essos, and all of the seas that border Westeros seem like they would be 'must not lose' for whatever house they would grant access to (ESS- Martell, SS - Stark, Shipbreaker, The Gullet - Baratheon, The Narrow Sea - Arryn), but I have no idea how to modify this, apart from maybe merging some of the seas, but this would present problems too.
It does look like great fun though and I would love to PBF it if someone was willing to set it up!
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Cal
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This looks fantastic! I'd love to run such a game!

I probably would have halved Essos though and just kept the western coast on the map to keep Westeros the focus and encourage Targaryen across. Stretch the Sea of Myrth so it connects with ESS and the Narrow Sea. Although this restricts Baratheon's options a bit in terms of reaching Essos, it does allow Targaryen to head north or south instead of through Baratheon. Could make Targaryen a walk over for Baratheon attacking from two seas, but could potentially be balanced by an extra port at Myr (2 Ports in 1 sea?) or adding a castle/stronghold to Braavos (if the eastern territories were removed) and maybe a Port.
That would mean the focus remains on Westeros with a few cities they interact with in Essos, gives Targaryen options and removes 4 of their defensive seas so their forces aren't quite as stretched (but still have to defend 5 if they want to hold all of Essos in an iron grip).

But that's just me thinking aloud and I understand it's a different direction to what you've taken

Anyway, if I can just work out how to make it PBF compatible...
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ArcanumTL ArcanumTL
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Wow - very cool map! I'll chime in with the others - if anyone is going to start PBF with this one - count me in!!!
 
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Marcel Cwertetschka
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did you created a kind of template for this map? I am playing AsoFaI pen and paper with some friends with totally different houses and it would be awesome to visualize it on such map with the new houses
 
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Cal
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New PBF game up using this map and rules: here

First in, best dressed.
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Chris Milek
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Hello!

Respect for all the thinking! I like it!

I have just some questions:
What is exactly meant by "your empty area" on Varys House Card?
And isn`t it already possible to retreat in any adjacent area when defeated? What it the difference on Edmure Tully Housecard except that the Units are not routed?

Please help :-)

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Filip Stysiak
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Looks good, although you could use photoshop to remove the tiling on the sea.

Plus, I'd get rid of that sea square in the top right corner.

Has anyone tested it? It looks fun
 
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Cal
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pasieka17 wrote:
Has anyone tested it? It looks fun


Besides the playtest mentioned earlier in the thread, check out my link two posts above. We're halfway through a PBF game and I feel it's going rather well

chrissmilek1234 wrote:

I have just some questions:
What is exactly meant by "your empty area" on Varys House Card?
And isn`t it already possible to retreat in any adjacent area when defeated? What it the difference on Edmure Tully Housecard except that the Units are not routed?


I believe (though may be mistaken) that Varys allows you to relocate an order to one of your provinces that has no order, either left intentionally blank at the start of the turn or having already used or been raided.
As for Edmure, the main point is that units are not routed, so may retreat to an area with a march and counter-attack. I suppose it's also possible to imply that routed units can still retreat rather than be removed as normal.

You'll have to check with Vitezslav as to what he intended though.
 
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yoni alon
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Vitezslav Hi,
i sent you a messege about the game. please answer, me and my friends realy need your help. please tell us how to print the map, the cards, how to make the soldiers of the new houses and if you can, more necesery information.

Thank you
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Kim R Pedersen
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Really really cool
Is the map i size so you can print it out and use it?

But make some new house tokens that match the others i color and tone

Also im thinking of making a card expantion my self when we play our games * So really like your cards. and special that Daenerys have a skull on the card. Dragons FTW
 
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Pons Fabien
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Hello Everybody,
Vitezslav, your map version for 9 players is awesome. I'd like to ask you if you could put in a link the "virgin version" of your map (without mountain or rivers for example). In fact, i work on your map and cards for translate in french. You have made a marvellous work, thanks.
 
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Cary Almas
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Cal585 wrote:
New PBF game up using this map and rules: here

First in, best dressed.




What is PBF? mean?
 
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Cal
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caryalmas wrote:
Cal585 wrote:
New PBF game up using this map and rules: here

First in, best dressed.




What is PBF? mean?


Play by Forum. It's one of the other sections of these forums (where people play online), this one being "Variants".
 
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Tyler B
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Vitezslav,

I appreciate the work that went into this map.

However, I've always had one major problem with it that prevents me from really wanting to play it, and it's the congestion of Seas along Essos.

To traverse the continent of Essos by sea, you would need to own like 9 seas. Compare this to the West of Westeros (Bay of Ice - Sunset Sea - West Summer Sea) or the East Coast in the original game (ESS - Shipbreaker Bay - Narrow Sea - Shivering Sea) it seems a bit excessive. I've never understood why nearly every sea needs to touch Essos.

Potential things to think about:
- The Orange Bay and the Bay of Rhoyne don't need to be 2 seas in my estimation, unless you were looking for unraidable support for the protection of Essos from the south (support the Orange Bay from Bay of Rhoyne).
- when making the map, did you consider simply bisecting Dragonstone with the Gullet on one side and the Narrow Sea on the other? This would make the Narrow Sea boarder the Bay of Myrth. Sure, this means that they wouldn't be as much back and forth across continents from different houses owning different seas, but it would give a single house that owns crucial seas flexibility instead of only being able to connect a couple places.

I'd like to hear your thoughts on the matter, because as it stands, I would be really peeved to draw Targaryen, Baratheon or even Arryn in this variant due to the lack of flexibility at the sea.

(of course, these are all questions about the original map you posted, that i can see anyway. you could have changed a lot since posting it that would assuage my hesitation to want to play this variant).
 
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Björn Grafström
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Vitezslav wrote:
Hello everyone!
I'd like to introduce the new 9 player map with a western part of Essos as a part of the Game of Thrones battleground.


Rules:
This add-on includes a new map based on the map of the 2nd edition. The
Looking forward to your replyies. The whole archieve you can find here:
http://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/103181/a-9-player-variant-...


Apart from the map above, there seem to be other versions of the 9 player variant map around. The one above is not a browser map, but there are (at least) two versions that exist in that format.

This one (lets call it MAP A)

And this one (lets call it MAP B)

Is one map better than the others? Why?
 
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Cal
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bagisbjorn wrote:
Apart from the map above, there seem to be other versions of the 9 player variant map around. The one above is not a browser map, but there are (at least) two versions that exist in that format.

This one (lets call it MAP A)

And this one (lets call it MAP B)

Is one map better than the others? Why?


Map A seems to be the browser map shown in this thread. Map B seems to be the updated map that Vitezslav but forth for our PBF game based on his previous games on the original map. Differences are mainly the addition of a castle at Rainwood, removal of Norvos castle/port and upgrade of Myr. I believe the changes were made to encourage migration to Essos.
 
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Cary Almas
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What is the Final version? I'm looking to build the 9player 3d version.

Carving into foam board. I would LOVE to know which board is the most up todate and preferred version.
 
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