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Marvel Dice Masters: Avengers vs. X-Men» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Huge first player advantage? rss

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Kirk Bauer
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Since I don't see any threads on this, I'm wondering if I missed a rule, but it seems first player has a huge advantage because they can attack before the defender has any dice in play.

I only played two beginner games, but it seems it would be a problem.
 
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John duBois
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You're reading the rules right.

Once you start playing more full games (more characters and more life), though, you'll likely discover that attacking on turn one is usually a bad idea - you want those early Sidekick dice to give you energy to improve your dice pool. You'll give up an early point of damage for much more damage later on.
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Darrell Goodridge
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I've been trying to determine whether there's a turn order advantage. Me and my buddy seem to split games, but it's not always the first player who wins.

In your example, yes you could field and attack with 4 sidekicks before he can field anything, but then you just left yourself open for him to do the same back to you.

If anything, the first player is usually the one to reload their bag first, which is obviously a possible advantage. But still, you need to draw that one or two die you purchased to claim that advantage. If you reload and still pull 4 sidekicks you're no better off.
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Arek Minaki
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In certain situations and if you have characters like Black Widow - Tsarina, it could give a good advantage, since the opponent wouldn't have characters to level down for Tsarina ability.
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Martin Hristoforov
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there was a huge thread about it sometime back.

there is an advantage as he gets to pull his characters on t3 first but there are also a couple of disadvantages. He doesn't get to see what your buy strategy is t1 and that is quite important when you start getting better. For instance contering a gobby is quite different than contering a human torch or countering a storm wind rider/beast. Another smaller thing is that given how crazy good globals are in the game you can keep a mask or two or energy from your 2 to use on his t3. So suppose he rolls a beast or whatnot you can get rid of him before you've rolled anything.
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Greg Lott
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kirkbauer wrote:
Since I don't see any threads on this, I'm wondering if I missed a rule, but it seems first player has a huge advantage because they can attack before the defender has any dice in play.

I only played two beginner games, but it seems it would be a problem.


As has been said, attacking on turn one is typically a bad idea. It leaves YOU defenseless and, more importantly, you must remember that every pawn you leave in the field is a pawn that you cannot draw. Having 4-5 pawns in the field makes your draws extremely rich.
 
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Tim Ford
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The main advantage I see in going first is the ability to play turn 3 hero characters when the only thing your opponent could have played is pawns.

Makes characters like Tsarina have more early oomph if 1st player can field some of them before you have the ability to spin anything down. Still, random is random and there's a decent chance on turn 3 going first to draw 4 pawns and pass that potential advantage right back to player 2.

I think it's definitely good to go first in an aggro build...how big that advantage is I don't know.

I'm sure as tournaments start up and the sample size of recorded tournaments goes up and they can analyze how many matches are won by going first it will go a long way, I've heard a lot of anecdotal evidence (my playgroup whoever goes first wins 77% of the time!) but nothing with a game sample size large enough to sway me.

The only outside evidence that this is an imbalance that may be looked at is the prevalence of slight disadvantages imposed on first players in other similar games - magic not getting to draw a card, hearthstone giving 2nd player a coin, stuff like that. Clearly other games feel going second needs a bit of love so maybe after enough games have been played and trends determined something will change for AvX. It's mechanics are different enough that it may be fine as is. Guess we'll see
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Martin Hristoforov
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back the big thread about this it has been suggested that player 2 should get to roll 5 dice on t1. i even did stats on what that would mean.

but generally i have not lost a game for going second for a long time but it can definitively help with RDW just like in magic.
 
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Kirk Bauer
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Part of my problem might have been just a little related to a rule I missed...

Quote:
Place unblocked attacking characters in the player’s used pile (even if the defending
player managed to prevent or redirect all the damage done).


So, that makes things much better.
 
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Martin Hristoforov
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kirkbauer wrote:
Part of my problem might have been just a little related to a rule I missed...

Quote:
Place unblocked attacking characters in the player’s used pile (even if the defending
player managed to prevent or redirect all the damage done).


So, that makes things much better.


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Greg Lott
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kirkbauer wrote:
Part of my problem might have been just a little related to a rule I missed...

Quote:
Place unblocked attacking characters in the player’s used pile (even if the defending
player managed to prevent or redirect all the damage done).


So, that makes things much better.


Oh my. That's not a small rule miss.
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Kirk Bauer
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ferris1971 wrote:
kirkbauer wrote:
Part of my problem might have been just a little related to a rule I missed...

Quote:
Place unblocked attacking characters in the player’s used pile (even if the defending
player managed to prevent or redirect all the damage done).


So, that makes things much better.


Oh my. That's not a small rule miss.


In my defense, I did say "I'm wondering if I missed a rule"

I'm looking forward to trying again with the right rules.
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Smat Denley
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I'd say there probably does need to be a cost to going first. Maybe roll only 3 dice on turn one or you can only buy one die.
 
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