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Subject: Let's out the pentagon's "zombie apocalypse" scenario designer. rss

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If you haven't heard, it's been revealed that the pentagon actually has contingency plans for the United States to survive a zombie apocalypse. (Bam! Take that Putin!) CONOP 8888, otherwise known as "Counter-Zombie Dominance", is designed to give guidance for military operations to preserve 'non-zombie' humans from the threats posed by a zombie horde.

The worst case scenario is a zombie attack in which there would be high "transmissibility," lots of zombies eating lots of people, zombies infecting humans at a rapid rate, and little or no immunity and few effective countermeasures. Other scenarios include: vegetarian zombies ("zombie life forms originating from any cause but pose no direct threat to humans because they only eat plant life"); evil magic zombies ("EMZs are zombie life forms created via some form of occult experimentation in what might otherwise be referred to as 'evil magic'"); zombies that come from outer space; zombies deliberately created by Frankensteinian bio-engineers; humans who have been invaded by a pathogen that turns them into zombies, AND--last but certainly not least--an invasion of chicken zombies (it turns out that CZs are the only type of zombies that are real).

Believe or not there's actually a logical reason to spend (reports are 2 million) taxpayer dollars on this but why bore you with details? The point of this thread is that the pentagon person that came up with this idea is obviously a BGG user zombie board game enthusiast who, no doubt, posts in RSP. So I wanna know which one of you bat-shit crazy fucks is behind it all so I can shower you with thumbs and GeekGold because this is just SO FUCKING AWESOME!!!
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Gialmere wrote:
this is just SO FUCKING AWESOME!!!


Yes. yes it is. And not only is it awesome, it's a superb use of taxpayer dollars. When you contrast Zombie readiness studies with stupidity like interactive food desert maps it's easy to see that the Pentagon is using our money wisely and the USDA is near criminal in it's waste of dollars.

Compare the likelihood of an actual zombie outbreak with the likelihood of any American citizen starving due to being more than 3 blocks from a government approved food retailer. Which has a greater potential? Easy, the zombies are much more likely to appear... we're probably not going to be seeing the sidewalks in Cleveland littered with dead and emaciated families that perished in their vain attempts to heroically crawl those last 20 or 30 yards to a store that sells something other than microwave dinners, pre-packaged sugared snack foods or frozen burritos. And as unlikely as a Zombie outbreak might be, it's practically guaranteed viewed in contrast.

I had no idea our Pentagon and military was this efficient and professional and I thank you for bringing it to my attention. I've tipped you some GG to use when you find the creator of the plan, Reward them well.
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http://www.scribd.com/doc/223872345/CONPLAN-8888

I noticed they left out both Idaho and Alaska Zombies.

THIS PLAN SUCKS.
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DWTripp wrote:
Compare the likelihood of an actual zombie outbreak with the likelihood of any American citizen starving due to being more than 3 blocks from a government approved food retailer. Which has a greater potential?

The food desert map is pretty useful when the zombies arrive. Quick access to a food source is critical during the zombie apocalypse.

Koldfoot wrote:
We'll fend just fine on our own. Keep the gov't planners in DC where they can do less harm.

Isn't every Alaskan on welfare by default? How hypocritical.
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Alaskan Welfare Zombies vs. Idaho Geometry Zombies: DOUBLE OVERKILL!!

We could only hope, right?

My money is on Continental United States because that is where all the true Americans live, and whether they know it or not, they live on the grid:



edit: I don't really know how the dice rolls work, but I have a couple of six sided dice, and that is good enough for me and the other 49 Zombies in the room.
 
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Zombie Apocalypses And Alien Invasions Aren't Mutually Exclusive


Gialmere wrote:
If you haven't heard, it's been revealed that the pentagon actually has contingency plans for the United States to survive a zombie apocalypse. (Bam! Take that Putin!) CONOP 8888, otherwise known as "Counter-Zombie Dominance", is designed to give guidance for military operations to preserve 'non-zombie' humans from the threats posed by a zombie horde.

Such "What if...?" scenarios offer unconventional challenges and help prepare armed services for unforseen contingencies which might be evocative of an all-out zombie apocalypse.

The Pentagon is also alleged to have contingency plans for alien invasions as well.


> Excerpts from the April 10, 2012 Exopolitics.org post by Michael E. Salla entitled:

Pentagon Plans For Alien Invasion Exist According To Military Professor

Professor Paul Springer from the U.S. Air Command and Staff College was authorized by his employers to discuss military plans to respond to an alien invasion.

Springer responded to questions by an Australian Television program exploring possible responses to an alien invasion that aired on Easter Sunday. In the segment titled “U.S. Military Making Plans For An Alien Invasion,” he discussed the implications of humanity being confronted by an extraterrestrial threat. Springer’s comments echoed the sentiments by Professor Stephen Hawking in April 2010 that advanced extraterrestrial life is likely to be predatory, and humanity needs to be prepared for contact with hostile off-world visitors.

Furthermore, Springer’s comments reveal that a 2006 book titled "An Introduction to Planetary Defense: A Study of Modern Warfare Applied to Extra-Terrestrial Invasion", written by a number of defense contractors, may in fact contain many aspects of the Pentagon’s classified plan. Most importantly, Springer’s comments confirm for the first time that the Pentagon has drawn up contingency plans for an extraterrestrial invasion.

In the alien invasion TV segment, when he was asked, “What do you think would be the alien plan? What would they do first?", Professor Springer responded, "That really depends on why they are here in the first place. If they are here for the extraction of a specific resource, for example, they might just want to eliminate any resistance that might block them from their objective. If, on the other hand, their goal was actual occupation and conquest, then they would probably have to prioritize anything they perceive as a threat to their own dominance. So, they would probably start by wiping out as many communications networks as possible and eliminating as many weapons that might represent some form of threat either to them, or to the resources they are trying to extract. So they might very well want to counter every nuclear weapon, not because it represented a threat to them, but because it might destroy whatever they’re here to collect."

Significantly, Springer addresses how the Pentagon would view extraterrestrial interference with nuclear weapons. Aliens would interfere with nuclear weapons not because they are dangerous to life here or elsewhere, but because nuclear weapons are a threat to what the aliens wish to collect from Earth. It has been well documented that for 60 years or more, UFOs have been monitoring nuclear weapons facilities, and in some situations have actively interfered with nuclear weapons. Many UFO researchers have interpreted this as a sign that extraterrestrials were trying to warn humanity of the global threat posed by nuclear weapons. Indeed, numerous individuals claiming to have been contacted or abducted by extraterrestrials since the early 1950s have made a similar point. Springer’s comments reveal the contrasting conclusion drawn by the Pentagon in their planning scenario.

Springer is then asked: “Wouldn’t it be a strange situation if humanity had to band together, fighting alongside Russia, or I guess, the Taliban?” He responded: "It would, but keep in mind that many of the greatest civilizations in human history have been formed, basically, to counter a common enemy. When you look at the great world powers of the globe today, you find a lot of them formed because of the fear of a common enemy."

Significantly, this echoes the same sentiment drawn by former President Ronald Reagan at a famous speech at the UN General Assembly in September 1987: "In our obsession with antagonisms of the moment, we often forget how much unites all the members of humanity. Perhaps we need some outside, universal threat to make us recognize this common bond. I occasionally think how quickly our differences worldwide would vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside of this world. And yet I ask - is not an alien force already among us?"

Reagan’s last question reveals that he did not believe that an alien invasion scenario was something that lay ahead in future decades.... Was he really warning the world about classified alien secrets withheld from the global public?

Not so fast according to reporters such as Alex Jones and Kurt Nimmo. They believe that the alien invasion scenario described by Springer would in fact be a false flag operation using very earthly advanced technologies to simulate an alien invasion: The goal would be to justify the creation of a one world government where more and more civil liberties would be lost -– especially for U.S. citizens.

A false flag alien invasion scenario was first revealed by Dr. Werner Von Braun, a founder of the US Apollo Space Program, to Carol Rosin shortly before the former’s death in 1977. This gives credence to a possible agenda behind the Pentagon leaking an alien invasion plan....

What, however, would be the case if Reagan’s warning was authentic, and extraterrestrials are already here? In such a scenario, there would be many good reasons why Jones and Nimmo are wrong, and greater global governance would be essential in dealing with advanced extraterrestrial life and technology....

Prof Springer’s revelation of classified Pentagon plans to respond to an alien invasion raises many intriguing questions. Most importantly, Springer reveals that the Pentagon acknowledges the importance of thinking through the many national security issues surrounding the possible existence of extraterrestrial life and technology.

Whether one agrees with former President Reagan that extraterrestrials are already here and constitute a global threat, or whether the Pentagon plan is merely a ruse for a false flag event to usher in a one world government; in either case, the time for serious study of issues concerning extraterrestrial life has come. The global media and scholarly community need to educate themselves and the public about the many political implications of advanced alien life, evidence that such life is already visiting us, and finally whether extraterrestrials are our friends or foes.


____________________________________________________



Moreover, as renowned Director Edward D. Wood warned us in his classic "Plan Nine From Outer Space" movie, alien invasions and zombie apocalypses are not mutually exclusive.




Or to put it more succinctly in the words of the immortal Criswell....


"God help us in the future!"



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Koldfoot wrote:
Or perhaps an ignorant statement on your part.

Are you saying you wouldn't want to be near a grocery store when the zombie apocalypse breaks out? Are you some sort of cannibal?
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Simon Mueller wrote:
Are you saying you wouldn't want to be near a grocery store when the zombie apocalypse breaks out? Are you some sort of cannibal?


No, he is saying he is completely okay with taking money from the State, and it is not relevant, for him, that this concept is totally against everything that he has ever posted (besides the part where he was banned forever) as long as he gets the money.

Does that sum it up pretty well, Koldie?
 
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Koldfoot wrote:
I'm going to bed.


So what you are saying, is that you are okay with being a Socialist, as long as you can get to bed on time.

I'm okay with that.
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Koldfoot wrote:
I'm fairly certain I've explained the Alaska permanent fund to you before. You get an idea stuck in your head and will never budge. I'll explain it for Simon if he has any inclination to learn about it, but not to you, again.

I know that Ayn Rand happily accepted Social Security money, because being libertarian doesn't prevent anyone from accepting a hand-out, even if they think the hand-out is morally wrong.

It's similar to millionaires/billionaires advocating for higher taxes for the rich, despite not wanting to pay more voluntarily, and still making use of loop holes.

Is your position similar to that?
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Koldfoot wrote:
In a nutshell, the state owns all that oil. [...]

The first sentence of this post is simple on its face, but is such a dramatically different way of thinking that some people just can't wrap their head around it. Many Alaskans can't wrap their head around it.

I can and that's why I'm against colonialism or other efforts to deprive a country of control over its own resources.

How do you think about the coups in Chile (1973), Iran (1953) or the Republic of the Congo (1960)?
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Mission: Failure

Heh, I had hoped to get a few laughs and perhaps find some genius geek but this thread got quickly dragged down into the RSP mosh pit of endless knife fighting over slights several threads removed.

[Possible cover up by the spooks. Must investigate further.]

I'm giving a thumb and some GeekGold to JK for his novella length conspiracy theory.

[Man has unhealthy obsession with LA Governor. Must investigate further.]

As an experiment I've decided to repost the OP (with watered down language and political overtones) in the "Chit Chat" forum and use those geeks as a control group.
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I saw your (presumably deleted) post SM. The answer to your question is that I did wonder if this topic was best for CC or RSP. Ultimately, however, this is about whether or not the US government is wasting time and money on something utterly ridiculous. (You'll notice that Tripp picks up this theme in the first response to the OP.) But is it ridiculous? Zombie invasion plans are so over the top that I decided to take a tongue-in-cheek approach to the subject but, as I mention in the OP, there is logic to it.

You might recall that a few years back the Pentagon got into some hot water when it was discovered that it had plans to invade Canada. Were some Canadians a little upset? Oh, you betcha! But the Pentagon should (and does) have plans to attack every country on the planet, not only as logistical training for new military personnel but because no one knows what the future will bring. How many recent wars has US fought against countries that the average American not only has never heard of but couldn't find on a map if you gave them the continent as a hint? Yes, a US/Canadian war is unlikely in any foreseeable future but a Hitler could pop up anywhere.

Now consider another more likely scenario. In WWII the Japanese attacked the Aleutian Islands in Alaska. Had they succeeded they would have gotten a permanent toe-hold in North America from which they could launch air strikes against the US west coast or march an army south to the US border. Obviously the US would have no choice but to counter-attack. In this scenario the US isn't fighting the Canadians, but the map of Canada is still the map of Canada. The terrain (mountains, forests, rivers) is still the same. The roads, bridges, airfields, comm centers etc. will still all be there. Suddenly having an up-to-date battle plan (as opposed to having to make one up from scratch) against Canada would be very handy indeed. All you have to do is fill in a few blanks since the plan was last revised. (Yes general, that road was paved last year so we can now roll our tanks along it no matter how shitty the weather is.) The main plan of moving your ground troops, arranging air support, setting up supply lines and directing navel ships along the coasts has already been thought out for you.

Now fast forward to Massachusetts in modern times. A year before the marathon bombings the city of Boston conducted some emergency drills for a terrorist attack scenario. They didn't want to offend any local Muslims so, being a very liberal town, the "terrorists" they practiced against were a right-wing militant extremist group. As irony would have it, a year later when the bombs really started exploding it was an attack by domestic Muslim terrorists...BUT...the plan on how to mobilize law enforcement along with emergency and medical crews went off just fine.

All this brings us to the zombie defense plan. Obviously it's just a metaphor for an attack on the US homeland. But in this modern PC world what country do you specify as the attacker? Naming any country would not only ruffle diplomatic feathers but put US citizens who immigrated from said country at risk. (Eh? The feds are prepping for an attack from Canada? Let's go out and kick some hoser ass!) So what do you do? You make an utterly ridiculous fantasy scenario that still covers all the bases. After all, the map of the US is still the map of the US. So the worst case zombie attack represents enemy troops landing at, say, the California coast and brushing all stunned resistance aside to where a successful counter attack couldn't be organized until the enemy zombie (tanks) were looking at the St Louis Arch. Space zombies are paratroopers landing all over the US. Vegetarian zombies represent a vast spy network infiltration. Evil magic zombies are multiple terrorist cells attacking at once. Blood pathogen zombies are entire cities bombed or nuked so that the undead "control" the town but engagements can still be dealt with at the perimeter. How chicken zombies fit in is still anyone's guess.

I apologize for this long winded ramble but I have insomnia and nothing better to do. I now return this thread to its previous stopping point. I believe it was a military coup in the Congo...
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Sounds like we need an obligatory Zombie expansion for Fortress America. Maybe combine some Pandemic/Amoeba Wars mechanics for Zombie outbreaks in areas as the Countrieas duke it out until it becomes a semi-coop with an ultimate winner.
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I only posted my response to your "Mission Failure" post because I thought it was pompous. RSP threads are usually derailed before the end of the first page. If more interesting discussions develop, people will go along with these and what's there to whine about? If you wanted a more in-depth discussion of the zombie plan, maybe you should've started it with what you wrote in your last reply.

Why do certain people like a useless Pentagon plan better than a useless food distribution map? Maybe because one of those two has guns in it. Oh, and zombies. In the end, they're both wasted tax dollars, but everybody knowns libertarians LOVE budget deficits if only they involve war toys.

Assuming the zombies are in fact only a cover-up for a real type of conflict, I personally believe this zombie plan could most likely be utilised in the event of an armed rebellion of citizens, and yeah, if the Pentagon would be criticised for including Muslim terrorists into their plans, they'd attract even more criticism for including angry armed Americans. The average IQ of the Bundy militia is probably pretty close to that of a zombie.

In case you're wondering, the coup in the Congo replaced democratically elected Patrice Lumumba with notoriously corrupt dictator Joseph Mobutu, over the Congo's strategically important Uranium ore reserves. Someone probably drafted a plan for that, too...
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A friend of mine works in epidemic modelling. He told me once about some work (I don't think it was his, but I might be misremembering) in epidemics where they modelled a 'zombie' outbreak in quite a bit of detail.

The point was really that the model held for more realistic outbreak scenarios, but it was also kind of close to how you would model a classic zombie movie outbreak, so they called it that.
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Simon Mueller wrote:
I only posted my response to your "Mission Failure" post because I thought it was pompous. RSP threads are usually derailed before the end of the first page. If more interesting discussions develop, people will go along with these and what's there to whine about? If you wanted a more in-depth discussion of the zombie plan, maybe you should've started it with what you wrote in your last reply.

Why do certain people like a useless Pentagon plan better than a useless food distribution map? Maybe because one of those two has guns in it. Oh, and zombies. In the end, they're both wasted tax dollars, and everybody knowns libertarians LOVE budget deficits if it involves war toys.

Assuming the zombies are in fact only a cover-up for a real type of conflict, I personally believe this zombie plan could most likely be utilised in the event of an armed rebellion of citizens, and yeah, if the Pentagon would be criticised for including Muslim terrorists into their plans, they'd attract even more criticism for including angry armed Americans.

In case you're wondering, the coup in the Congo replaced democratically elected Patrice Lumumba with notoriously corrupt dictator Joseph Mobutu, over the Congo's strategically important Uranium ore. Someone probably drafted a plan for that, too...
Jumping in here, yes if it was a plan for dealing with zombies it is a waste of money, but governments need plans to deal with emergencies. It is just they are not always honest about what emergencies they are planning for.
 
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Simon Mueller wrote:
I personally believe this zombie plan could most likely be utilised in the event of an armed rebellion of citizens...

Holy shit Simon, you might be on to something here. This whole farce could be a cover for the feds to practice putting down an armed revolution by its own citizens. That actually holds up under all scenarios and is more likely than an attack from outside. Plus you couldn't just tell the citizens what you were up to. How's that for a conspiracy theory?

I have to admit you're a genius here. A rude one, but still a genius.
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Gialmere wrote:
I have to admit you're a genius here. A rude one, but still a genius.

That's why I'm working for the Pentagon.
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Simon Mueller wrote:
Gialmere wrote:
I have to admit you're a genius here. A rude one, but still a genius.

That's why I'm working for the Pentagon Pentagram.


FTFY.
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TheChin! wrote:
Sounds like we need an obligatory Zombie expansion for Fortress America. Maybe combine some Pandemic/Amoeba Wars mechanics for Zombie outbreaks in areas as the Countrieas duke it out until it becomes a semi-coop with an ultimate winner.

During World War II when invading countries, the Nazi fighter planes often attacked fleeing refugees on the roads not only for the obvious cruelty of it but also to create a stampede of people in order to foment chaos and disrupt the traffic flow of their opponent's troops and vehicles traveling along those same roads.

Although zombies could serve to similar disruptive effect as a chaos-provoking factor and a more aggressive form of cannon fodder, I cannot imagine how any side that releases zombies would be able to prevent them from attacking their own troops.


 
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ShreveportLAGamer wrote:


TheChin! wrote:
Sounds like we need an obligatory Zombie expansion for Fortress America. Maybe combine some Pandemic/Amoeba Wars mechanics for Zombie outbreaks in areas as the Countrieas duke it out until it becomes a semi-coop with an ultimate winner.

During World War II when invading countries, the Nazi fighter planes often attacked fleeing refugees on the roads not only for the obvious cruelty of it but also to create a stampede of people in order to foment chaos and disrupt the traffic flow of their opponent's troops and vehicles traveling along those same roads.

Although zombies could serve to similar disruptive effect as a chaos-provoking factor and a more aggressive form of cannon fodder, I cannot imagine how any side that releases zombies would be able to prevent them from attacking their own troops.


I'm sure there could be some flavor text involved where some fanatic tea party scientist releases the zombie virus to combat the communist invaders without considering the larger consequences. Much like the policies fanatic Tea Party activists protest for.
 
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TheChin! wrote:
ShreveportLAGamer wrote:
TheChin! wrote:
Sounds like we need an obligatory Zombie expansion for Fortress America. Maybe combine some Pandemic/Amoeba Wars mechanics for Zombie outbreaks in areas as the Countrieas duke it out until it becomes a semi-coop with an ultimate winner.

During World War II when invading countries, the Nazi fighter planes often attacked fleeing refugees on the roads not only for the obvious cruelty of it but also to create a stampede of people in order to foment chaos and disrupt the traffic flow of their opponent's troops and vehicles traveling along those same roads.

Although zombies could serve to similar disruptive effect as a chaos-provoking factor and a more aggressive form of cannon fodder, I cannot imagine how any side that releases zombies would be able to prevent them from attacking their own troops.

I'm sure there could be some flavor text involved where some fanatic tea party scientist releases the zombie virus to combat the communist invaders without considering the larger consequences. Much like the policies fanatic Tea Party activists protest for.

Nah, that doesn't sound too plausible.

A misguided Tea Party scientist of the Dominionist bent might create the Rapture Virus (i.e. Zombie Virus) in order to artificially create the scenario by which the dead's rising from their graves would supposedly fulfill Biblical prophecy about the raising of the dead before the Second Coming of Christ.

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Koldfoot wrote:
Military officers tend to be rigid and unimaginative. As an exercise that FORCES them to think outside the box I think it was creative. The project was clearly not intended to practice for zombie apocalypse, but to get military officers to think outside their comfort zone.

In an era of asymmetrical war it was appropriate. If it was successful or not, we don't know. If it served its function of stimulating creative thinking they should continue such training.


Indeed, as they say, 'amateurs study tactics, professionals study logistics'.

A proper simulation of something like this would undoubtedly focus heavily on the logistics problem, when logistics are being disrupted in a way very difficult to deal with or work around.

That the exercise forces 'out of the box' thinking to come up with a solution to a problem that actually WILL occur (logistics disruption is priority #1 in any attack)...only we have nearly no way to guess the specific details of the "real" implementation of it...sounds like a good use of training budget, to me.
 
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