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Subject: Twilight Struggle--Ameritrash or Euro? rss

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Farrell Seymore
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Poll: Twilight Struggle--Ameritrash or Euro game?
After playing this game, I wondered, "What kind of game do most people this this is--Ameritrash or Euro?"

Define for yourself the meaning of each term.
Ameritrash
Euro
      79 answers
Poll created by fbsfbs
 
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Max DuBoff
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This is an either-or fallacy.


Besides, however curious you may be, the debate over TS's classification is NOT worth bringing up again.
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Железный комиссар
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Neither.
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Morten K
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JohnRayJr wrote:
Neither.


Agreed
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manus trium
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Card driven war game with great historical references...?
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Quote:
What kind of game do most people this this is



A board game. And a damned fine one at that.
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Sergey Kosarev
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Eurotrash
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Rollo Tomosi
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At its heart it is a mashup of chess and Yahtzee....except that there are no chess peices, nor is there a chess board, and in point of fact you can't get a Yahtzee or even a small straight, which makes it really a lot more like a hybrid of "Old Maid" and a Quarter-Pounder with Cheese (TM), except there there is no old maid, nor is there any beef or cheese.
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Mark J
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It's a Globaltreasure game.
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Dave Rubin
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Trolling by polling?
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Jeff Thompson
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Is this the version with the "deluxe" map or not?

Spoiler (click to reveal)
This in fact a trick question. It never shipped without a deluxe map.
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Sicaria Occaeco
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It's obviously a party game.


Spoiler (click to reveal)
The Communist Party approves.
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David G. Cox Esq.
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fbsfbs wrote:
Poll: Twilight Struggle--Ameritrash or Euro game?
After playing this game, I wondered, "What kind of game do most people this this is--Ameritrash or Euro?"

Define for yourself the meaning of each term.
Ameritrash
Euro
      79 answers
Poll created by fbsfbs


Does it matter what others think?

Be a man! Just ask your mother!


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Matthew Rooks
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dirubin wrote:
Trolling by polling?


The preferred nomenclature is tropolling.
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Max DuBoff
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fbsfbs wrote:
Poll: Twilight Struggle--Ameritrash or Euro game?
After playing this game, I wondered, "What kind of game do most people this this is--Ameritrash or Euro?"

Define for yourself the meaning of each term.
Ameritrash
Euro
      79 answers
Poll created by fbsfbs


Still puzzling over the fact that nine people think TS is Ameritrash, of all things...
 
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Douglas Reilly
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fbsfbs wrote:
Poll: Twilight Struggle--Ameritrash or Euro game?
After playing this game, I wondered, "What kind of game do most people this this is--Ameritrash or Euro?"

Define for yourself the meaning of each term.
Ameritrash
Euro
      79 answers
Poll created by fbsfbs


Clearly, it is a wargame. It has two pieces with tanks on them!
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Mattias Elfström
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It is neither. It is a card driven wargame based on the mechanics introduced in We the People.
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Øivind Karlsrud
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fbsfbs wrote:
Poll: Twilight Struggle--Ameritrash or Euro game?
After playing this game, I wondered, "What kind of game do most people this this is--Ameritrash or Euro?"

Define for yourself the meaning of each term.
Ameritrash
Euro
      79 answers
Poll created by fbsfbs


While there is definitely a eurogame tradition, I don't think ameritrash is well defined. A much more important tradition from the US is the wargame tradition. All the old games from Avalon Hill is another important tradition from the US. Are those ameritrash? The term 'ameritrash' was invented as a reaction by people who felt eurogames were too abstract, AFAIK, and I think most real ameritrash games are neither good nor influential. That's why I think ameritrash has fused with eurogames. While you still have games that are clearly in the eurogame tradition, there are no games today, except wargames, that are not influenced by eurogames to some degree. Twilight Struggle is a bit special because in some (most?) ways it is definitely in the wargame tradition. Not only is the theme war (although a cold one), but the card driven mechanism it uses was invented by wargame designers (and GMT is primarily a wargame publisher). On the other hand it is an area control game, which puts it in the eurogame tradition.

To make a long story short, and to answer your question: Twilight Struggle is a wargame, with some mechanisms inherited from eurogames.
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Farrell Seymore
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oivind22 wrote:
fbsfbs wrote:
Poll: Twilight Struggle--Ameritrash or Euro game?
After playing this game, I wondered, "What kind of game do most people this this is--Ameritrash or Euro?"

Define for yourself the meaning of each term.
Ameritrash
Euro
      79 answers
Poll created by fbsfbs


While there is definitely a eurogame tradition, I don't think ameritrash is well defined. A much more important tradition from the US is the wargame tradition. All the old games from Avalon Hill is another important tradition from the US. Are those ameritrash? The term 'ameritrash' was invented as a reaction by people who felt eurogames were too abstract, AFAIK, and I think most real ameritrash games are neither good nor influential. That's why I think ameritrash has fused with eurogames. While you still have games that are clearly in the eurogame tradition, there are no games today, except wargames, that are not influenced by eurogames to some degree. Twilight Struggle is a bit special because in some (most?) ways it is definitely in the wargame tradition. Not only is the theme war (although a cold one), but the card driven mechanism it uses was invented by wargame designers (and GMT is primarily a wargame publisher). On the other hand it is an area control game, which puts it in the eurogame tradition.

To make a long story short, and to answer your question: Twilight Struggle is a wargame, with some mechanisms inherited from eurogames.


Excellent analysis. I posted this thread because the game is so great and the game seemingly doesn't fit neatly into a single category. But I am interested in others' thoughts. Thanks for everyone's input and votes--keep them coming!
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Mattias Elfström
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Ameritrash and Eurogames are not the only game genres into which every game has to fit. The card driven war game was popularized by the Avalon Hill game We the People from 1994.

Wargames is certainly a genre (albeit a broad one) quite separate from Ameritrash and Eurogames.

If you like Twilight Struggle I suggest you also try the following great card driven wargames:

We the People
Hannibal
Successors
Paths of Glory
Napoleonic Wars

There are more, but these are the best.
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Heath Stockburn
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JohnRayJr wrote:
Neither.


Agreed.
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Michael Kiefte
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Mattias wrote:
Ameritrash and Eurogames are not the only game genres into which every game has to fit. The card driven war game was popularized by the Avalon Hill game We the People from 1994.

Wargames is certainly a genre (albeit a broad one) quite separate from Ameritrash and Eurogames.

If you like Twilight Struggle I suggest you also try the following great card driven wargames:

We the People
Hannibal
Successors
Paths of Glory
Napoleonic Wars

There are more, but these are the best.


I disagree. Twilight Struggle is only like these games in that it's card driven. If you like Twilight Struggle, you're more likely to find similarities with games that came after: Labyrinth and 1989. 1989 is the game most like Twilight Struggle and many people like both very much. I would put Labyrinth in the same family but many people who like Twilight Struggle and 1989 do not like Labyrinth at all. I personally love it.

What they have in common is how cards are managed. In the games you list above, you can play your cards as events or Ops and your opponent's cards as Ops. The three games I listed have a very different dynamic in that you have to be very careful how you play your opponent's cards as the event always takes place. This makes for a very different kind of game and puts them in an entirely different class of playing style.
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mkiefte wrote:
What they have in common is how cards are managed. In the games you list above, you can play your cards as events or Ops and your opponent's cards as Ops. The three games I listed have a very different dynamic in that you have to be very careful how you play your opponent's cards as the event always takes place. This makes for a very different kind of game and puts them in an entirely different class of playing style.


It could actually be an interesting experiment to try to play For the People (which has a shared deck of red/blue/neutral events, like Twilight Struggle) with the same event rules as Twilight Struggle and see what happens.
 
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Jorge Sánchez
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So many time spent talking about games and not playing games... Does it really matter if it is Warome or Amwaro? Qualifiers don't improve games, even don't help you to decide if you want to play them. Their only meaning is the mantaining of purity of people that doesn't play this or that because they think some kind games aren't fun.

But that's just my opinion...

Play and have fun with boardgames.
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Chris toph
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Flojo wrote:
So many time spent talking about games and not playing games... Does it really matter if it is Warome or Amwaro? Qualifiers don't improve games, even don't help you to decide if you want to play them. Their only meaning is the mantaining of purity of people that doesn't play this or that because they think some kind games aren't fun.

But that's just my opinion...

Play and have fun with boardgames.


Have to agree with Jorge and block this thread from my subscription. Menotcares!
 
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