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Subject: Cards and Counters Removed When Eliminated? rss

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Lee Valentine
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Player A has poisoned another monster. Player A is eliminated. Do his poison card and counters get eliminated too? This is not specifically about Poison, but about any ongoing effect and whether it survives the elimination of the monster that produced the effect.

Lee
 
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Scott Hill
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Cards owned by the eliminated monster are discarded.

Counters affecting other monsters are not.
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Lee Valentine
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Is this in the rulebook?

How do counters have effects after the card describing those effects leaves play?

Lee
 
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Scott Hill
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No, I don't believe it is in the rule book.

I should have made it clearer that this is how I would play it.

But, I do have a feeling it's in the FAQ.

Plus, why would on-going effects (that are represented by tokens) suddenly end just because the card that they came from disappears?
 
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Lee Valentine
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Because the counters only do what the cards say they do. If one card effect ends, why wouldn't all card effects end?

Lee
 
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Scott Hill
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For thematic reasons.

Take, for example, your example of poison counters - why would a monster that has been poisoned suddenly not be poisoned just because the monster that poisoned them dies?
 
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Lee Valentine
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Why should effects without counters end while counters continue? Other effects are no more or less thematic.

Lee
 
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Scott Hill
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Effects without tokens are not on-going effects that affect monsters other than the one that owns the card that produced them.
 
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Lee Valentine
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Thunder Stomp does.

Lee
 
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Scott Hill
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I don't appear to have a card called Thunder Stomp in my set.
 
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Lee Valentine
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It's probably a promo.

Lee
 
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Scott Hill
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Yeah, it is. I found the text for it and I don't see a conflict here.

The Thunder Stomp effect is an instant effect, not on-going.
 
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Lee Valentine
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No, it's not. Each use lasts until the controller's next turn. That's a full round effect, not something that's over instantly upon use.

Lee
 
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Scott Hill
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This is getting into semantics, but they could have worded the card:

"If you score 4VP all players roll 1 less die on their next turn."

Which would have functionally the same effect.

But, would you consider that an on-going effect?
 
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Scott Hill
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Actually it is in the rules!

Quote:
Poison Spit & Shrink Ray
Poison and Shrink counters stay in play and in effect even if Poison Spit [or Shrink Ray] leaves play.

From the Special Cards Overview section of the 2012 rules.
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Lee Valentine
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I absolutely would consider that a non-instant effect. That's still going to last a full go around the table. It's not a remainder of game card, but it certainly isn't over instantly either.

Lee
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Lee Valentine
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Nice find.

Lee

Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Actually it is in the rules!

Quote:
Poison Spit & Shrink Ray
Poison and Shrink counters stay in play and in effect even if Poison Spit [or Shrink Ray] leaves play.

From the Special Cards Overview section of the 2012 rules.
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Scott Hill
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hudarklord wrote:
Nice find.

Lee

Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Actually it is in the rules!

Quote:
Poison Spit & Shrink Ray
Poison and Shrink counters stay in play and in effect even if Poison Spit [or Shrink Ray] leaves play.

From the Special Cards Overview section of the 2012 rules.

I knew I'd read it somewhere - thought it was in the FAQ though!
 
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Scott Hill
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Your question is answered now, however...

hudarklord wrote:
I absolutely would consider that a non-instant effect. That's still going to last a full go around the table. It's not a remainder of game card, but it certainly isn't over instantly either.

Lee


How would you play it if the monster with Thunder Stomp scored 4VPs in their turn, but then died, either during the same turn, or a subsequent player's turn?
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Lee Valentine
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Well, that is still a remaining question. The answer depends on whether that card is discarded when its controller is killed. Also, it depends on whether the eliminated character has a "next turn." I just assumed that Thunder Stomp was discarded. By the way, if the card stays in play but it's owner doesn't get to take turns, then your rewording might resolve differently than the original wording.

I assume that it's discarded and the effect terminates, but that doesn't make perfect sense thematically.

Lee
 
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Scott Hill
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I can't see anything in the rules that explicitly state cards are discarded when a monster is eliminated, but the clarification of Mimic, in the Special Cards Overview, implies that they are.
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Lee Valentine
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I see what you are talking about. That's another good find. You are two for two.

Thanks.

Lee
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