Michael Bryant
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I have trawled the forums and scrutinised the rules, this is my 2 pence (or cents for you across the pond).
Player damage caused by characters attacking should be a separate step AFTER all the attack/block damage has been resolved, including any card effects that are triggered.

I see that this will clear up the current ambiguity about how the character abilities effect the attacking/blocking characters.

My example (simple team example):

Attacking characters:

4 Sidekicks (SK1,SK2,SK3,SK4)

Blocking Characters:

Iron Man (Playboy - 3 damage assigned to opposing attacking/blocking character when damage received)

1 Side Kick (SKB)

Attack Phase:

The 4 Side Kicks Attack

Iron Man blocks SK1
SKB blocks SK2
(Therefore SK3 & SK4 are UNBLOCKED)

Attack/Block Damage Resolved:
Iron Man knocks out SK1
SKB knocks out SK2
As Iron Man took damage he can assign 3 damage to on opposing Attacking character.
The player chooses SK3 to receive the 3 damage - SK3 is Knocked Out.

Therefore only SK4 remains unblocked and not Knocked Out.

Player Damage Resolution Step:
SK4 deals 1 damage to player

Clean Up:
SK1,SK2,SK3 go to Prep Area
SK4 goes to Used Area

Iron Man returns to Field
SKB goes to Prep Area

End of turn.


I can still see problems arising from cards that say "...when character or player receives damage..."
Some may see that these effects might only work retrospectively in these cases. I am currently unable to offer a solution to these occurrences.

What do you think?
 
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John Wiser
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I think the FAQ will clear this up along with a many other issues. This type of scenario was asked in another thread and the answer was that the unblocked character would still do his damage. So in this case SK3 and SK4 would do damage. Iron Man would still knock out SK3 but not before SK3 did damage.
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Cristiano Cozzolino
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johnwiser wrote:
I think the FAQ will clear this up along with a many other issues. This type of scenario was asked in another thread and the answer was that the unblocked character would still do his damage. So in this case SK3 and SK4 would do damage. Iron Man would still knock out SK3 but not before SK3 did damage.


Yes. Damage (from rulebook) is dealt all at the same time so both unblocked SK will damage the player.
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Daniel Marquez
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The assign damage has been my biggest problem with this game.
I tend to lean in your direction and think all damage is dealt at the same time to characters that attacking/blocking each other therefore activating their card effects, then damage that goes through is dealt to the player. This is crucial when both players are down to 2 or 3 lives.
This very thing happened to a game between my friend and I. I was down to 3 life and he was down to 2 lives. I was using two beast to block him while he was attacking me with 3 points of damage that would have gone past my blockers. So we had a long talk about what happens first: does the Beast ability happen right as they are knocked out, therefore doing two damage to him and I win the game or does he do the three damage to me first and the Beast ability does not have the opportunity to take effect because I have already lost. Well, we couldn't find a definite answer, so we ended the game as it was.
 
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Michael Bryant
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My point is that it makes no sense to Ko a character that has aready dealt damage to the player. The attacking character would go to the used pile if the attack got through to the player, why would you want to knock out the character so that it goes to the prep area?

This is why I propose that Player Damage taken is resolved in its own step after character attack/block damage is resolved. In the example I cited Iron Man's ability is useless if the damage is dealt simultaneously. I agree character to character damage SHOULD be simultaneous but player damage should not be.
 
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John Wiser
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embryo69 wrote:
My point is that it makes no sense to Ko a character that has aready dealt damage to the player. The attacking character would go to the used pile if the attack got through to the player, why would you want to knock out the character so that it goes to the prep area?

This is why I propose that Player Damage taken is resolved in its own step after character attack/block damage is resolved. In the example I cited Iron Man's ability is useless if the damage is dealt simultaneously. I agree character to character damage SHOULD be simultaneous but player damage should not be.


I understand what you are saying. Please make note that SK3 goes to the used not the prep area. As for why would someone want to attack SK3 as he already did his damage? Good question. Look at what Iron Man's effect does, Each time Iron Man takes damage "in the attack" step, he deals 3 damage to one opposing character that is attacking or blocking.

Iron Man is doing three damage to opposing character before he does his regular damage. So this does help him get rid of some of the bigger power houses that your opponent fields. Also make note that the key word here is each time. Hope this helps...
 
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Michael Bryant
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Please do not confuse my example for the way the rules say it is. I know how the rules say it, but they also say card text over rides the rules. My example was an example of the way I believe it should be played.
I currently follow the standard rules even though IMHO they are not thematic or logical.
 
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Daniel Marquez
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embryo69 wrote:
I agree character to character damage SHOULD be simultaneous but player damage should not be.


This is my thought as well. My friend doesn't agree, but like I said this will all be settled once there is a FAQ released...if ever. :\
 
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John Galietta III
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Actually, the way you state in your example IS the way the rulebook states it, from my interpretation.

Unfortunately everyone is getting held up on the "damage occurs simultaneously", which I believe is out of context, and the rulebook backs up that assumption.

The rulebook says:
Quote:
pg 8 - Assigning damage - Both players assign damage. Damage occurs simultaneously. (In the rare case where it is relevant, the attacking player assigns first, although damage still resolves simultaneously.)


My interpretation is that this first statement is talking about Character damage only, not player damage. The reasons are simple:
* "BOTH PLAYERS..." - if it was referring to unblocked damage, why would it say both as the defender can't do unblocked damage.
* parenthetical addendum - Again, why would it be relevant for players to resolve unblocked damage simultaneously.

I believe this is an out-of-context statement, meant to show players that CHARACTERS deal damage simultaneously, to prevent players from saying "my attacker deals damage to your blocker first, so he doesn't deal damage to me", for those not familiar with a Magic the Gathering type of attack scheme.

Quote:
cont'd - Damage dealt to a character in excess of that character’s defense is wasted. Once all damage has been assigned, knock out each character that took damage greater than or equal to its defense. When a character is knocked out, move it to that player’s prep area. If game effects are generated by a character being knocked out, or by taking
damage, the attacking player resolves all effects first, then the defender.
Attacking characters that were unblocked (or characters with certain special abilities) deal damage to the defending player. Deduct that damage from the player’s life.


The damage step rules make a point of describing the entire character damage plus KOs and character effects. Then in the final paragraph it then tells you to deal player damage from unblocked characters. If you take that as a step by step instruction on resolving damage, the LAST thing you do is deal player damage from unblocked attackers.

I would be skeptical if it only said it like this, ONCE and rather vaguely and poorly written. But then we skip to the combat example in the second half of the book.

Quote:
pg 18 - Neither player has anything else they want to do, so they assign damage. Each character assigns its attack value in damage to the character engaged with it (there is no other choice).....Captain America, Beast, and Spider-Man have each taken damage that equals or exceeds their defense. They are each knocked out and go to their respective prep areas. Hulk took damage again, triggering his ability yet again, but there are no level-1 characters that Scott can crush.
Iron Man took no damage from Thor, so he cannot use his ability a second time. This means that Hulk survives the turn, but then again, so does Iron Man. Finally, Storm deals three damage to Ryan and moves to the used pile. Thor, Hulk, amd Iron Man each go back to their respective fields. Yes, Ryan’s team took a beating, but he has Iron Man and he gets to roll six dice next turn, and Scott only has two blockers left...


So not only does it state this order in the rules themselves, here is a play example, working through the damage step. It goes through characters damageing and KOing, then a possible effect trigger (which fizzle due to no targets) and then, with the primer "finally" which puts the final nail in the coffin IMO, it says the player takes unblocked damage.

It's poorly written, takes some thought to extract from the rulebook, but after working that out, it seems clear as day to me.
 
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Michael Bryant
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I am happy that you agree with my way of interpreting the rules. To me it makes the most sense.
I do not mind how it ends up, I just hope that an "official" ruling or FAQ sorts it once and for all.
 
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J. H. Horatio
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dmarquez wrote:
The assign damage has been my biggest problem with this game.
I tend to lean in your direction and think all damage is dealt at the same time to characters that attacking/blocking each other therefore activating their card effects, then damage that goes through is dealt to the player. This is crucial when both players are down to 2 or 3 lives.
This very thing happened to a game between my friend and I. I was down to 3 life and he was down to 2 lives. I was using two beast to block him while he was attacking me with 3 points of damage that would have gone past my blockers. So we had a long talk about what happens first: does the Beast ability happen right as they are knocked out, therefore doing two damage to him and I win the game or does he do the three damage to me first and the Beast ability does not have the opportunity to take effect because I have already lost. Well, we couldn't find a definite answer, so we ended the game as it was.


Active player first is a good rule of thumb. I would rule that the attacking player wins, but wouldn't stake anything of value on that being correct.
 
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