Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Empire of the Sun» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Rebasing forward rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Steve Hope
United States
Woodside
California
flag msg tools
badge
Likes: Mountains, Tundra Turn-offs: Serpents, Marsh
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
We are just getting going with this game, and so are generally following the example of play in conducting the initial turn. One question that has arisen is whether you can rebase air units which have fought in a battle to that battle hex, e.g. in the case where air units in Taiwan participate in a battle in the Philippines and then in post-battle movement land in the Philippines. The rules suggest that you can, but I'm wondering why that isn't done in the example (seems much better to have those air units in the Philippines to support future operations than to keep them in Taiwan).

One other quick one that I think I understand--it IS the case that a plane can (for example) move two hexes in reaction (or regular) movement then participate in a battle two hexes away, correct?

Any thoughts appreciated--thanks!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Steidl
United States
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Hi Steve,

Welcome to EotS.

On your first question, you are allowed to use any base you control at the moment you want to use it. So, yes, if you captured the hex during battle, you could rebase there in PBM. The example of play is not necessarily intended as optimal strategy. (I think Mark mentioned that somewhere.)

On your second question, yes also. The operations value of the card (1, 2, or 3) determines the number of air legs you may move as the offensive or reaction player. From that final base, you may fight in any battle hex that is within range. (Keeping in mind the rules about parenthesized air values.) Note, however, that you cannot move an air unit into a battle hex.

Cheers,

John

4 
 Thumb up
0.25
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Hope
United States
Woodside
California
flag msg tools
badge
Likes: Mountains, Tundra Turn-offs: Serpents, Marsh
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks very much, John!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank McNally
United States
Andover
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Can you rebase into a space that you have occupied but has a potential for an Special Reaction? If so and that air unit is designated as battling in another hex if SR occurs is it forced to fight in SR hex?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve Hope
United States
Woodside
California
flag msg tools
badge
Likes: Mountains, Tundra Turn-offs: Serpents, Marsh
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I was thinking of rebasing as post-battle movement. I don't think you can locate an air unit during an offensive in a battle hex? But I could be wrong...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank McNally
United States
Andover
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I was not quite sure since it is not a battle hex until after SR which might not happen.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francisco Colmenares
Canada
Woodbridge
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The Q&A is your Friend Frank. This applies to CVs, but since it directly adresses the Special Reaction situation, it easily applies to air units as well:

The FAQ wrote:
Q: A carrier (CV) escorts a ground unit using amphibious assault to a vacant Hollandia. The CV then declares it will attack enemy units in Biak, two hexes away. The opponent successfully roll for Special Reaction (SR) in Hollandia and react with air/naval units to the SR battle. Question: Does the CV still participate in the battle for Biak, or must it now take part in the Hollandia battle as it occupies that battle hex.

A: This is a situation where rule 8.12 takes precedence. In the example Hollandia is now a declared battle hex. If the reaction player sends assets and fights an air-naval battle in Hollandia, then the CV must participate in the Hollandia air-naval battle as per 8.12. However, if the reaction player does not cause an air-naval/ground battle to be fought in Hollandia then the CV still participates in the Biak battle. If the CV were not in the Hollandia hex it would continue to be committed to the Biak battle.

According to this FAQ, I would say the same situation applies to an air unit that follows up and bases in the newly captured airfield. if Special Reaction sucessfully creates a battle hex then the air unit occupying the hex will have to participate in it and not the other battle it declared against. If the special reaction fails, its original attack ensures.

However, now I must bring up a possible counter point: Hex Control 12.1 says a ground unit establishes control of a hex entered via AA prior to Post-battle movement. Technically speaking, the offensive movement step is prior to post battle movement, but because of SR it can interpreted that control via AA has to be established at the end of the battle step. Under this interpretation then the real question is:

Can you activate an air unit and move it to an airbase occupied by a friendly ground unit that entered it via AA during this offensive? It all hinges on when control occurs. I think that if we want to disallow this we should rephrase 12.1 to say "end of the Combat step" (Step 6)
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Frank McNally
United States
Andover
Massachusetts
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
You capture the issue well. I think intent would be that control actually occurs after battle. This would be consistent with the asymmetry of reaction and offensive AA which implies the defender arrives first and avoids possibility of your air unit basing in a space where a enemy defending ground unit is present (if it reacts).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Steidl
United States
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Quote:
Can you activate an air unit and move it to an airbase occupied by a friendly ground unit that entered it via AA during this offensive? It all hinges on when control occurs.

A vacant enemy hex becomes friendly controlled for all purposes at the instant a friendly ground unit enters it using normal ground movement. This includes use of any air base by friendly air units that have yet to move in the current operation.

This is NOT true for hexes entered only by AA, which do not change control until right before PBM. (Even if there was no combat in the hex in question.) At that point any bases in the now-friendly hex can be used for PBM purposes.

Sometimes this distinction can be really important!

arrrh
4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Francisco Colmenares
Canada
Woodbridge
Ontario
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
jsteidl wrote:

Sometimes this distinction can be really important!
arrrh

Right John, I'm just saying the wording needs to be tightened up because right now it just says: "Before PBM". That's a LOT of leeway. I would propose instead that we change this wording to: At the end of all Battles (step 6 of the Offensives Sequence). That would make it crystal clear and foil the Rules Lawyers.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John Steidl
United States
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Hehe...as a reformed rules lawyer, I just always interpret the word "before..." as meaning "right before...".

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.