Oliver Paul
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Been loving this game for a while, but never really tried anything from the expansion except Nations. Tried it all out in a big game last weekend, and I've got to say, the other modules really disappointed me.

My main gripe was with the personalities. Leo Szilard (the guy that lets you place on the main board reactor sites like they were your own buildings, and they each give you two plutonium or uranium seemed so insanely overpowered that the person who best utilized that personality absolutely crushed the rest of us (I still had 0 points when she won with 60). Are we missing something? The other personalities, while good, were nowhere near this level of benefit.

Also, regarding H-bombs, there are only 5 LD plants, and if you stick them in the deck, it seems like they would almost never come out, since the deck is 50 cards, and only a fraction of those get revealed every game. That's a very small chance for any LD plant to come out, let alone to be bought and used enough to power an H-bomb. Didn't seem like H-bombs in general were benefit enough for the amount of effort required to build one.
 
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MacDouglass Kinnick
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Just in case you missed this rule during your first play of the expansion, remember that personalities are exchanged during the retrieve workers action. If you are following this rule, it should be hard to maintain control of Szilard if your opponents don't want you to.
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Kevin Korell
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We also found Leo Szilard to be overpowered. Our proposed house rule is that you must pay the yellowcake and money twice if you're going to use the main board reactors at double output. Even still, it's pretty powerful. Thematically, one would expect to have to still put in raw materials each time you generate uranium or plutonium. Only one scientist per space is needed.
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Stefan V
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Hey Oliver Paul,

The first time I played with the personalities I also thought that this character was overpowered and it didn't seem right. But after reading through the rulebook again, I discovered that the "power" of the character is something completely different than the text on the card itself says.

The rulebook states that with Leo Szilard you can use the main board reactor sites on the second phase of your turn like they were your own buildings. The rulebook doens't say anything about getting the double amount of plutonium of uranium for this. It seems that the wording on the character card is just very confusing and should not be interpreted that way. If you play it like this, the character isn't overpowered anymore.

Greetings!
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Rob Miller
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Scr3p wrote:
Hey Oliver Paul,

The first time I played with the personalities I also thought that this character was overpowered and it didn't seem right. But after reading through the rulebook again, I discovered that the "power" of the character is something completely different than the text on the card itself says.

The rulebook states that with Leo Szilard you can use the main board reactor sites on the second phase of your turn like they were your own buildings. The rulebook doesn't say anything about getting the double amount of plutonium of uranium for this. It seems that the wording on the character card is just very confusing and should not be interpreted that way. If you play it like this, the character isn't overpowered anymore.

Greetings!


I've played Manhattan Project a few times but just got the Second Stage expansion. So I've been going through the various BGG threads about the various modules and came across this thread.

Just to clarify, the rulebook does basically say that your output is increased but not in every case. Here's the text from the rulebook:
LEÓ SZILÁRD
Since you are allowed to activate the Main Board Reactor and Enrichment spaces as Buildings, you may place workers on 1 or both of them (and pay the activation costs) during Step 2 of your turn when you are activating other Buildings. This is in addition to the worker you may have placed earlier on the Main Board during Step 1 of your turn.

The bolding is mine.

So if you placed one worker on either the Main Reactor or Enrichment spaces in Step 1 of your turn, you can again place one worker on them in Step 2 as a Building. You don't get double the amount of output when you place a single worker on either space either time - you can just basically use one of the spaces (either the Reactor or Enrichment space) in Step 1 and then re-use that space space in Step 2 like it was one of your own Buildings. That's essentially doubling your output for one space for your entire turn. It's not saying that you get double the P or double the U for every worker you place there on your turn - you're just getting one P or one U during your Step 2, as long as you have the scientists to play and you can pay the activation costs for both. If you already got a P or a U during Step 1, you're essentially doubling the output because you're getting another of the same during Step 2.
Of course if other players already had workers on those spaces of the Main Board you would not be increasing your output at all. You would just have the opportunity to activate those spaces as Buildings during Step 2 where normally they would be blocked from you if they were already occupied.

The other addition to that is that because both spaces are considered "Buildings" you can play on both of them during Step 2 (just like you can activate any Building cards on your Player Board in a single turn). So if you played a worker and paid the activation costs on the Main Reactor during Step 1 you'd get a single P (you can still only place one worker on the Main Board during Step 1), then on Step 2 you could place a worker on the same space again (paying the activation costs again) as well as placing a worker on the the Enrichment space (again paying its activation costs) to get a U. You've paid activation costs every time and you've used the appropriate number of workers, you can just do it all in one turn instead of over 3 turns.

I agree that the card itself isn't clear but the Personality Tile Clarification section of the rulebook explains it much better.

I would additionally point out the following clarification, though this is more my reading of both the tile and rulebook. It says on both that you're treating these spaces "as Buildings" during Step 2. So just like all of your other buildings you should only be able to fill each space once until you retrieve your workers (if you fill up any Building on your Player Board you can't re-use it until it's cleared-out, again). But then, of course, when you retrieve your workers with the expansion you're also returning the Personality tile to the supply. So in essence this means that you're only allowed a chance to buy one extra P and to buy one extra U while you have this Personality.
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Brandon Tibbetts
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Everyone's welcome to tweak the rules as they wish, of course.

But the RAW (on the personality tile) do in fact say that the output of the 2 main board spaces are doubled, period. Meaning when you place a scientist on the space and activate it, the output is doubled. Whether it's in Step 1 or Step 2. As long as you have Szilard.

The rules in the rulebook should be viewed as supplementary to the text on the tiles. Indeed, some personalities have no additional text in the rulebook as they do not require clarification.

The supplementary rules for Szilard are only meant to clarify what "as buildings on step 2 of your turn" means. It means that when it's step 2, you can place workers on those spaces even if you had already placed a worker on the main board in step 1. It also means that you can activate both spaces during step 2 if you wish.
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Oliver Paul
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silentrob wrote:
Scr3p wrote:
Hey Oliver Paul,

The first time I played with the personalities I also thought that this character was overpowered and it didn't seem right. But after reading through the rulebook again, I discovered that the "power" of the character is something completely different than the text on the card itself says.

The rulebook states that with Leo Szilard you can use the main board reactor sites on the second phase of your turn like they were your own buildings. The rulebook doesn't say anything about getting the double amount of plutonium of uranium for this. It seems that the wording on the character card is just very confusing and should not be interpreted that way. If you play it like this, the character isn't overpowered anymore.

Greetings!


I've played Manhattan Project a few times but just got the Second Stage expansion. So I've been going through the various BGG threads about the various modules and came across this thread.

Just to clarify, the rulebook does basically say that your output is increased but not in every case. Here's the text from the rulebook:
LEÓ SZILÁRD
Since you are allowed to activate the Main Board Reactor and Enrichment spaces as Buildings, you may place workers on 1 or both of them (and pay the activation costs) during Step 2 of your turn when you are activating other Buildings. This is in addition to the worker you may have placed earlier on the Main Board during Step 1 of your turn.

The bolding is mine.

So if you placed one worker on either the Main Reactor or Enrichment spaces in Step 1 of your turn, you can again place one worker on them in Step 2 as a Building. You don't get double the amount of output when you place a single worker on either space either time - you can just basically use one of the spaces (either the Reactor or Enrichment space) in Step 1 and then re-use that space space in Step 2 like it was one of your own Buildings. That's essentially doubling your output for one space for your entire turn. It's not saying that you get double the P or double the U for every worker you place there on your turn - you're just getting one P or one U during your Step 2, as long as you have the scientists to play and you can pay the activation costs for both. If you already got a P or a U during Step 1, you're essentially doubling the output because you're getting another of the same during Step 2.
Of course if other players already had workers on those spaces of the Main Board you would not be increasing your output at all. You would just have the opportunity to activate those spaces as Buildings during Step 2 where normally they would be blocked from you if they were already occupied.

The other addition to that is that because both spaces are considered "Buildings" you can play on both of them during Step 2 (just like you can activate any Building cards on your Player Board in a single turn). So if you played a worker and paid the activation costs on the Main Reactor during Step 1 you'd get a single P (you can still only place one worker on the Main Board during Step 1), then on Step 2 you could place a worker on the same space again (paying the activation costs again) as well as placing a worker on the the Enrichment space (again paying its activation costs) to get a U. You've paid activation costs every time and you've used the appropriate number of workers, you can just do it all in one turn instead of over 3 turns.

I agree that the card itself isn't clear but the Personality Tile Clarification section of the rulebook explains it much better.

I would additionally point out the following clarification, though this is more my reading of both the tile and rulebook. It says on both that you're treating these spaces "as Buildings" during Step 2. So just like all of your other buildings you should only be able to fill each space once until you retrieve your workers (if you fill up any Building on your Player Board you can't re-use it until it's cleared-out, again). But then, of course, when you retrieve your workers with the expansion you're also returning the Personality tile to the supply. So in essence this means that you're only allowed a chance to buy one extra P and to buy one extra U while you have this Personality.


Thanks for the reply Rob. I still think that I had it correct. The tile states:

Quote:
The output of the Main Board REACTOR & ENRICHMENT PLANT are doubled for you and usable as BUILDINGS in Step 2 of your turn


The rulebook then merely further states:

Quote:
Since you are allowed to activate the Main Board Reactor and Enrichment spaces as Buildings, you may place
workers on 1 or both of them (and pay the activation costs) during Step 2 of your turn when you are activating other Buildings. This is in addition to the worker you may have placed earlier on the Main Board during Step 1 of your turn.


The tile says that you can use the P and U spaces on the main board as if they were your own buildings, therefore using both of them as well as another space on the main board on your down. It also states that the output is doubled.

The only thing the rulebook adds is to clarify that the tile does in fact mean that they should be counted as buildings.

It took me a while to find the rulebook online and a picture of the tile here on BGG, because this expansion totally put me off the game, and I sold it months ago. I still think that this tile is insanely overpowered.
 
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Paulo Santoro
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Please bear in mind this: although Leo Szilard is very strong, it is easy to cancel his power by good playing. When other player gets Szilard, just use that place so it is blocked.

Note that the other characters can't be blocked. So houseruling Leo Szilard would become him very weak. He is well balanced!
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