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Subject: Are dice abilities mandatory? rss

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Thanasis Petsas
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In the Rulebook [1] (page 10) says "A player can COMMIT A DIE RESULT produced during a combat roll to trigger a dice ability. ... If a player commits a die result to trigger a dice ability, he does not resolve the normal effect for that die result". Moreover in the Reference Book [2] (page 4) says: "Some unit abilities are preceded by a die result (such as Heroic). Players can only use these abilities by commiting dice."

Is it mandatory to use these abilities or can I skip committing dice and rather resolve the normal effects of the dice?

For example, Citadel Guard has the ability (Strike) Superior tactics: Cause 1 retreat.



Can use the Strike in order to cause 1 damage instead of committing dice and use it to cause 1 retreat? In page 9 of the Rulebook there is an example where a Citadel Guard unit uses a Strike in order to cause 1 damage. But this is not clear considering the afformentioned rules.

Moreover, Blood Harvesters have the Frenzy ability, where a Heroic dice result can cause 1 damage, but has the cost of removing one figure from the attacking unit.



Can I skip committing dice so as to prevent my unit to be eliminated, e.g., if I have a weak unit.

[1]: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/battlelore/Bat...
[2]: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/battlelore/Bat...
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Scott Lewis
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COMMITING dice is always optional. So if you roll a result that has a corresponding ability, you can choose not to commit the die.

However, hit and retreat results are not optional. If you rolled 3 flags, for instance, you must apply all 3.

The only exception is that if you COMMIT a die result, it doesn't do it's normal effect. So if you commit a Strike result for a Citadel Guard, you wouldn't apply it's damage, because you've used the die for something else.

So for the cards you show:
- If you roll Strike results for a Citadel guard, you can choose NOT to commit the die, and just have it be a regular hit instead. If you choose to commit it, it will cause a retreat. (This is useful if you want to be able to use Pursue; if you rolled 2 strikes, you may want to apply one as normal, and commit the other to force a retreat so you can move and attack again).

- Frenzy is completely optional. If you roll helmets, you don't have to use them if you don't want to wound the unit.
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Thanasis Petsas
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Thank you very much for the quick response! A follow up question on what you just said:

sigmazero13 wrote:
(This is useful if you want to be able to use Pursue; if you rolled 2 strikes, you may want to apply one as normal, and commit the other to force a retreat so you can move and attack again).


So If I use the pursue can I move and attack again to the same unit I forced to retreat?
 
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Scott Lewis
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daimonas wrote:
Thank you very much for the quick response! A follow up question on what you just said:

sigmazero13 wrote:
(This is useful if you want to be able to use Pursue; if you rolled 2 strikes, you may want to apply one as normal, and commit the other to force a retreat so you can move and attack again).


So If I use the pursue can I move and attack again to the same unit I forced to retreat?

Yep. Or you could attack a different unit that you move adjacent to. Puruse is a nice ability However, to use Pursue, you MUST move into the space the original target occupied; you can't choose to stay put if you want to use the ability. If you have a Pursue value greater than 1 (like Flesh Rippers), you don't have to use the full value, just that initial one.

(If you are familiar with 1st Edition, Pursue is basically very similar to what Mounted units could do, although there are some slight differences).
 
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David Bezio
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Can the unit attacked by a pursue battle back if the normal requirements are met (it isn't destroyed and doesn't flee)? Couldn't find an official ruling on this the other night (if there is one, what page is it on?).
 
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Scott Lewis
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grubman wrote:
Can the unit attacked by a pursue battle back if the normal requirements are met (it isn't destroyed and doesn't flee)? Couldn't find an official ruling on this the other night (if there is one, what page is it on?).

Yes, it's pretty much just like a regular attack.
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Mike
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sigmazero13 wrote:
daimonas wrote:
Thank you very much for the quick response! A follow up question on what you just said:

sigmazero13 wrote:
(This is useful if you want to be able to use Pursue; if you rolled 2 strikes, you may want to apply one as normal, and commit the other to force a retreat so you can move and attack again).


So If I use the pursue can I move and attack again to the same unit I forced to retreat?

Yep. Or you could attack a different unit that you move adjacent to. Puruse is a nice ability However, to use Pursue, you MUST move into the space the original target occupied; you can't choose to stay put if you want to use the ability. If you have a Pursue value greater than 1 (like Flesh Rippers), you don't have to use the full value, just that initial one.

(If you are familiar with 1st Edition, Pursue is basically very similar to what Mounted units could do, although there are some slight differences).


I was under the impression Pursue 1 allows you to move 1 hex in any direction, not just into the space that you just cleared. Similar to Pursue 2, which allows you to move two hexes before attacking.
 
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According to the reference guide: "The player must move the attacking unit into the hex the target unit occupied before moving it any further."

So for a unit with Pursue 1, it will move into the previously-occupied hex, and no further (since it moved it's one space to move into that hex). A unit with Pursue 2 could then move an additional hex (but not back to the space the attacker originally occupied, as also described in the reference guide).
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Christian Ringlstetter
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Are you sure? I read it like that you have to follow up, and then your moving starts, so a unit with Pursue 1 can move 1 hex after moving in the previously occupied hex...

Can the attacked an retreated unit still strike back, if I follow up by using Pursue and being adjacent to that unit after my moving has ended?
 
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Andy Leber
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Ringl wrote:
Are you sure? I read it like that you have to follow up, and then your moving starts, so a unit with Pursue 1 can move 1 hex after moving in the previously occupied hex...

Can the attacked an retreated unit still strike back, if I follow up by using Pursue and being adjacent to that unit after my moving has ended?


Yeah, because it describes Pursue as (From the ref guide, emphasis mine):

Quote:
When a unit with the Pursue ability can advance, the player
may instead move the attacking unit and perform one
additional attack.


It's the "instead" that I think is important. Instead of advancing, move a maximum of 1 (in this case), and then attack. And then it's clear that the first (and in this case only) move has to be into the abandoned hex.

So all pursue is adding to your regular advance is the ability to attack again (with Pursue 1)
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Ringl wrote:
Can the attacked an retreated unit still strike back, if I follow up by using Pursue and being adjacent to that unit after my moving has ended?

No. If the defending unit is pushed out of his original hex for any reason, he cannot counter, even if the attacker moves into the hex he originally occupied (via Pursue or regular Advance). A figure can only counter if it is still in the same hex after the attack, and the attacker is still adjacent.
 
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Garrett
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sigmazero13 wrote:
So for the cards you show:
- If you roll Strike results for a Citadel guard, you can choose NOT to commit the die, and just have it be a regular hit instead. If you choose to commit it, it will cause a retreat. (This is useful if you want to be able to use Pursue; if you rolled 2 strikes, you may want to apply one as normal, and commit the other to force a retreat so you can move and attack again).


The Superior Tactics ability is awesome. By making the unit retreat, not only can you Pursue, but you also prevent them from counter attacking your first attack. If my wife attacks one of my Uthuk Y'llan units and rolls only one strike (with no cleave or morale results), I usually suggest that she commit it to Superior Tactics so I can't counter attack. If she rolls multiple damage (cleave or strike), she might as well use them for damage because even if my unit survives to counter attack, it will be weak.

(Sorry to take this away from rules and focus on tactics.blush)
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