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Subject: New to attack wing- OP questions rss

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Glitchy Predator
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So I am an X-wing player, but as much as I am a Star Wars fan I am also a Star Trek fan. I first saw Attack wing at GenCon last year but didn't think too much of it. Not because it didn't look great but because I was spent after picking up everything else already. It looked great but I just started playing Fleet Captains and really have enjoyed that as my flavor of choice for Star Trek. Fast forward to now, I forgot about attack wing until a friend brought it up. I started looking into it and wow, it looks great. I love X-wing, but I like the idea of all the different factions in attack wing. So many cool tactical abilities!

But then as I read more I started realizing how important the OP stuff seems to be. That is something I am not a fan of. I mean the game is only a year old (less actually) and I am already behind the curve on OP stuff. How important is the OP stuff for doing well in organized play? If I decide to get into this game am I going to have to spend some money on Ebay to catch up?

Second thought is what about DS9? My favorite series is DS9 and I see they already made the model, but that it is not available for purchase and was only a prize. This makes me think they will never release it for the general public. I know I could pick up the cardboard version for cheap, but lets be honest, I'm coming from X-wing, I don't want a cardboard cut-out of one of my favorite pieces of star trek history. I want the model, but I don't want to pay scalper fees. Anyone know if WizKids is thinking of actually releasing it as an expansion?
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Waspinator
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Wizkids makes tons of OP exclusive stuff for Heroclix. DS9 is likely never going to be at retail.
 
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Glitchy Predator
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TheWaspinator wrote:
Wizkids makes tons of OP exclusive stuff for Heroclix. DS9 is likely never going to be at retail.

Ugh. That's a big turn-off. Big enough to possibly keep me out of the game. It is the iconic station for me and besides the defiant the model I would want the most.
 
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Mark Cylon
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The OP stuff can make a difference in a game, however its not going to stop you. We have had a few X-Wing players join us and they had no OP stuff and were able to kill players that resources and prize ships. I think skill and a good build are the key really.

As for the DS9 I know a lot of people are buying a similarly scaled model of it to use instead of the OP ship. I do kind of think that WizKids are losing out by not selling it eventually, simply because there would be a lot of sales and also because people that didn't win it are disheartened and leave the scene.
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Tom Gabel
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You don't need any of the OP cards or ships to be competitive, but that said I do see them popping up in suggested tournament builds here and around the net pretty frequently. They are by no means "must-haves" though.

Regarding DS9, I would recommend getting the big cardboard token for the rules, and then buying either the AMT model (if you're a modeler, and don't mind painting it) or the Playmates model (if you're not a modeler and/or want a DS9 that makes noise and lights up). Either of these options will probably end up being significantly cheaper than trying to get the WK model second-hand, and will look just as good, or better, if you put a lot of care into painting it. They may be a bit larger, but I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. AMT also made a K7 station model.
 
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Will Sanchez
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chrisoc13 wrote:
TheWaspinator wrote:
Wizkids makes tons of OP exclusive stuff for Heroclix. DS9 is likely never going to be at retail.

Ugh. That's a big turn-off. Big enough to possibly keep me out of the game. It is the iconic station for me and besides the defiant the model I would want the most.


I wouldn't worry about it. the market is so saturated with DS9s at this point you can almost get them for cost off ebay.
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Brad Whiteman
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Most of the OP stuff that is really desired/needed in the Participation prizes namely the resources, they can be picked up for a few bucks as there are quite a few floating out there.

DS9 well there were talks about it being eventually put out for sale but take that with a grain of sand. It's best/cheapest to grab the cardboard token and pick up one of the suggested models.
 
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Robert Chest
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I would recommend picking up a couple of the participation prizes from the Dominion War OP. Specifically, the Flagship Resource and maybe the Reinforcement Sideboard (becoming more popular now), or Command Tokens. All the resources are great, but these are generally the most useful. The prize ships are nice, but not truly necessary to be competitive, especially given the advent of the Borg.

With regards to the DS9 model, its really a beautiful model, on par in my opinion with the models that have come out for X-wing and better than anything else that has been produced for Attack Wing so far. But aside from coming with a smaller base template than the DS9 oversized token, nothing came with the model that you won't get if you pick up the large token (they both come with a DS9 and Independent Nor Class cards, and that's it). This means you could easily sub any model for the prize model and just pick up the oversized token from OP1 or OP6 (identical tokens/cards came with both OP kits). The Playmates model is exactly the same size as the prize model (aprox. 13 inches across), but it's not quite as detailed.

To sum up, the model is nice but not necessary to the game, so don't let it stand in your way! Attack Wing is great and I think you'll really enjoy it. Picking up a few of the resources and skipping the prize ships for now will get you started without breaking the bank.
 
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Waspinator
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Nicolivoldkif wrote:
DS9 well there were talks about it being eventually put out for sale but take that with a grain of sand.
I never saw any evidence for that rumor. I'm almost certain it was just people being hopeful and other people mistaking hope for truth.
 
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DS9 is a beautiful model. However I'd hardly let my lack of that get in the way of enjoying the game. If you really love the game you'll think $150 is fine ... eventually (a model that size would be $100 anyhow).

Unlike X-Wing you can be competitive for a relatively small investment, so give it a shot!

For OP resources the only two that are really worth jonesing for are the flagship ($5-$20) or the command pips ($3-$7) if you get them on ebay.

Or you can just buy a base set, and fly a Sphere and a Valdore with Picard, dorsal weapons array, and tactical officer and ignore the resources.
 
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Jon Ginever
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chrisoc13 wrote:
TheWaspinator wrote:
Wizkids makes tons of OP exclusive stuff for Heroclix. DS9 is likely never going to be at retail.

Ugh. That's a big turn-off. Big enough to possibly keep me out of the game. It is the iconic station for me and besides the defiant the model I would want the most.


The amd scale model of DS9 is slightly larger than the STAW one but still fits fine in the scale of the ships (which is all over the place anyway) and most importantly it fits ok on the template. The downside is you do have to paint it yourself (but we all do that with our STAW ships anyway right?)

In terms of the OP stuff, there are some nice cards in the prize ships, the closest thing to 'must have' was probably the ch'tang with skill 9 Martok and barrage of fire, but I'm doing fine with a klingon fleet without it.

If you were looking at some OP stuff through ebay I would say flagship cards are probably the most important, followed by the fighter resources, but the fighters are coming up for retail later in the year so don't pay over the odds for them.
 
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Greg Inglis
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If you go into the individual pages of each of the Prize ships, in the files section you can download copies of the cards to have a play around with. You can then get a better idea if there is anything you may need to compliment your style of playing
 
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Johnny Vannueten
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I also would like to mention that the DS9 model is not used (for the moment) in any of the missions that come with the ships.

You'll only use it if you're playing 1 of the 2 Dominion War OP Scenarios or in a skirmish\homemade scenario.

For the rest it is a beautiful model but in my opinion you will not use it a lot because of the vast number of other missions in the game( 2 or 3 in the base game and one with every ship ) and it just isn't that strong unfortunately.
 
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Thomas Blackwell
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I am betting that after the arena OP is done we will see wiz kids do a Resource Reset. The rules always define which resources are allowed. Dominion war was storyline resources only. Web and Arena were all resources. I think the collective will only allow collective storyline resources. That should level the playing field. That said the participation resources can be purchased elsewhere or you can check your gaming store to see if they have leftovers.
 
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Jon NyD

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Conphas wrote:
That said the participation resources can be purchased elsewhere or you can check your gaming store to see if they have leftovers.


^^ This. First thing if you're thinking of getting into the OP scene is to check where you're going to play. Tournament Organizers (TOs) have the most power when it comes to what's allowed, accepted, and what rules your build must follow (faction pure? Ship pure?) Almost every place I've played has extra resources left over from the Dominion war to get newer players caught up.

And if you think you want a quick way to catch up and be competitive, buy 2 spheres and a starter. That's the current go-to build and slight variations are winning a LOT in Tholian Web. Arena will be different. Check with your FLGS to see which one they're running!

Also, places may be able to get dominion war kits - I know of one place nearby doing a big tourney with 3 different OP kits and offering up a DS9 for the big #1 prize. $20 entry, but you're almost guaranteed to get an OP ship at the least.
 
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Thomas Blackwell
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My group got into OP recently and convinced our LGS to run the Web.
Before we got started the manager came back with boxes of dominion war resources and laid them out. Anyone that needed one could just walk over and pick it up. I ended up with Attack Dice, Command Tokens, Reinforcement Board, and Fed Fighters, as well as map elements for all the Dominion war OPs. I already had Flagships and Hideki Fighters from ebay purchases. They could have sorted them all out and listed them on ebay or something, but they knew there was more benefit and goodwill in supporting local players.

I know every store won't be like this, but it cant hurt to ask.
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Paul Grindrod
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Conphas wrote:
My group got into OP recently and convinced our LGS to run the Web.
Before we got started the manager came back with boxes of dominion war resources and laid them out. Anyone that needed one could just walk over and pick it up. I ended up with Attack Dice, Command Tokens, Reinforcement Board, and Fed Fighters, as well as map elements for all the Dominion war OPs. I already had Flagships and Hideki Fighters from ebay purchases. They could have sorted them all out and listed them on ebay or something, but they knew there was more benefit and goodwill in supporting local players.

I know every store won't be like this, but it cant hurt to ask.


The owner of my FLGS recently did something similar (I got the Fed fighters that I'd missed) for a group of people who had just started to buy stuff for Attack Wing.

It's little things like this that reinforce my commitment to buying local rather than online.
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Waspinator
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Can people please stop spreading that debunked rumor about resources being retired?
Quote:

RESOURCES

1. How many different Resources can I include when building my fleet?

Each player can include a maxiumum of 1 Resource when building his or her fleet.

2. Can Resources from one storyline be used in future storylines?

Yes, although individual venues may choose to restrict their use.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1166819/st-aw-official-faq/p...

Unless your local store decides to ban them, they're here to stay.
 
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Thomas Blackwell
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To be honest, I hadnt seen that in the FAQ.
Why would wizkids stipulate the resource usage in the OP instructions then? Seems odd to me, but then again BGG maintaining the official FAQ is also kinda weird to me.
 
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I think it's awesome. We get much better and open discussion with the game designers than if we had to email them or something.
 
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Glitchy Predator
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Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate the different perspectives. I've been looking into it more and more and honestly the more I look into it the more the OP and prize ships are pushing me away. I read a bunch more threads here, looked on Ebay at prices, looked in the marketplace etc and I am not sure this is for me (though it screams that it is with how much I love this system and Star Trek).

I am an admitted completionist. I complete games I really like. For me that is a part of the fun of getting into games like this- having all of the options at my fingertips. I don't like being limited by my collection. I don't need anyone to tell me that isn't ok because it is ok, and I enjoy doing it. It is part of the hobby for me. I avoid games where the game creator has manufactured a false rarity of pieces just so people drop more money on their games. Truth is if they simply did what other companies did (see FFG) I would drop way more money on the game in the long run. I've spent an embarrassing amount on X-wing, and likely would end up doing the same with attack wing except I won't see much point in it because of the prize ships (and even worse the upcoming blind boxes now).

Reading more about how wizkids operates, about the OP events and seeing how expensive the prize ships are on Ebay I am pretty turned off by it all. I don't have enough time to play in OP events once a month. It just isn't possible. Nor do I want to. But I would have to, or pay ebay prices, to get the complete sets. That's too bad. I don't want to start an X-wing vs. Attack wing debate but FFG is doing it the right way IMO.

I'm still on the fence though. I am going to an organized event for X-wing this weekend, while I am at the store I may pick up a starter set for attack wing and give it a try. If I really love it I will rethink the issue. If I am on the fence or I feel it doesn't add anything X-wing doesn't already offer I will sell it off or gift it to a friend and stick with only X-wing. Attack wing will never replace X-wing (just too beautiful and balanced a game) but I would love some star trek action to hit the table off and on.
 
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Trying out Attack Wing really is the best option. On the surface it looks like a Star Trek version of X-Wing and maybe it is, but there are just enough small differences that it becomes something else entirely. I do not consider myself a Trekkie yet I have purchase STAW over X-Wing and have not looked back. Biggest draw for me is the number of factions I can play and the near endless potential combinations once factions are mixed.

It has been stated before OP prize ships are NOT needed for competitive or casual play, they are there really for flavor. IMHO offer the best two ships in the game are the Vor'cha out of the base box and the Borg Sphere with the Romulan Valdore class a fairly close third. If you really want to make killer fleets you will need a few more ships to pickup the cards out of their packs but not that many really. The buy-in price of STAW is lower that X-Wing too, base set and 2-3 more ships and you can be playing and winning 50% of the time over players with 10x as much invested.

I too cannot participate in every STAW event at my local store but they so far have been very good about keeping me in pace with extra OP stuff, not that I really need it.

I guess what I am trying to say in a nutshell is....don't let the OP prize situation turn you off from a great game.
 
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chrisoc13 wrote:

I am an admitted completionist. I complete games I really like. For me that is a part of the fun of getting into games like this- having all of the options at my fingertips. I don't like being limited by my collection. I don't need anyone to tell me that isn't ok because it is ok, and I enjoy doing it. It is part of the hobby for me. I avoid games where the game creator has manufactured a false rarity of pieces just so people drop more money on their games. Truth is if they simply did what other companies did (see FFG) I would drop way more money on the game in the long run. I've spent an embarrassing amount on X-wing, and likely would end up doing the same with attack wing except I won't see much point in it because of the prize ships (and even worse the upcoming blind boxes now).


I used to be a completionist, then I realized I needed to also have the other option!

On a serious note I am the same way - however I have already been broken by other miniatures games.

Once I realized there's no way you're going to own every tank of every year of very nation in WWII (don't even start me on ships and planes), I had to move my completionist goal posts. For me Attack Wing has already hit that simulation level amount of variety and density.

I *need* complete:
- Federation
- TOS era
- TMP era

Major/Notable TNG era ships and people I *want*, but thankfully my rule is now slippery.

I dread however watching DS9... it might change my goal posts again!
 
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C. E. Freeman
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chrisoc13 wrote:
Thanks for all the replies, I appreciate the different perspectives. I've been looking into it more and more and honestly the more I look into it the more the OP and prize ships are pushing me away. I read a bunch more threads here, looked on Ebay at prices, looked in the marketplace etc and I am not sure this is for me (though it screams that it is with how much I love this system and Star Trek).

I am an admitted completionist. I complete games I really like. For me that is a part of the fun of getting into games like this- having all of the options at my fingertips. I don't like being limited by my collection. I don't need anyone to tell me that isn't ok because it is ok, and I enjoy doing it. It is part of the hobby for me. I avoid games where the game creator has manufactured a false rarity of pieces just so people drop more money on their games. Truth is if they simply did what other companies did (see FFG) I would drop way more money on the game in the long run. I've spent an embarrassing amount on X-wing, and likely would end up doing the same with attack wing except I won't see much point in it because of the prize ships (and even worse the upcoming blind boxes now).

Reading more about how wizkids operates, about the OP events and seeing how expensive the prize ships are on Ebay I am pretty turned off by it all. I don't have enough time to play in OP events once a month. It just isn't possible. Nor do I want to. But I would have to, or pay ebay prices, to get the complete sets. That's too bad. I don't want to start an X-wing vs. Attack wing debate but FFG is doing it the right way IMO.

I'm still on the fence though. I am going to an organized event for X-wing this weekend, while I am at the store I may pick up a starter set for attack wing and give it a try. If I really love it I will rethink the issue. If I am on the fence or I feel it doesn't add anything X-wing doesn't already offer I will sell it off or gift it to a friend and stick with only X-wing. Attack wing will never replace X-wing (just too beautiful and balanced a game) but I would love some star trek action to hit the table off and on.


There is nothing wrong with being a completionist, however it can lead to over spending on games. By this I mean purchasing pieces you will never use or spending money one can't afford. Believe it or not I'm going somewhere with this, money.

If money is not an issue for you then get into the game, buy the prize ships on eBay and have fun playing a great game. If spending money is an issue you may still be ok. I have 7 ties, 6 interceptors, 5 x-wings, 4 of every other small ship except the crow which is 2, and 2 of all the large ship. I have 1 of most STAW ships with 2 of a few and 4 D7s. You only need 1 of each ship for the most part, take the money you save not buying multiples and buy prize ships. The money saved from not buying extra large base ships, ties, the rebel transport, and tantive 4 would cover the cost of the prize ships.

 
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I definitely get where you're coming from, and if you know that you're going to want to get the LE's, but the prospect of obtaining them is a big turn-off, then Attack Wing may not be the game for you. I would like to propose one alternative/compromise, though:

chrisoc13 wrote:
I don't have enough time to play in OP events once a month. It just isn't possible. Nor do I want to. But I would have to, or pay ebay prices, to get the complete sets. That's too bad.

Based on this quoted bit, and that your primary interest in the game is as a Trekkie, I think you should just make your own versions of the LE ships. Nearly all of the figures themselves are readily available, in the form of Heroclix miniatures from Wizkids' Star Trek: Tactics heroclix, and the card information is also easily obtained, allowing you to print your own versions of them.

I think the only two LE ships that you can't buy heroclix versions of are the Tholian and Gorn ships.

If you want to play the game, and you're a completist, but you don't care about OP games, then I personally think this is a good option, and it's what I've done for the prize ships that I couldn't get my hands on. It allows you the full range of play options for casual games with friends, without the fuss of needing the official version of the prize ship for a tournament.
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