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Descent: Journeys in the Dark (Second Edition)» Forums » Rules

Subject: Need clarification on Syndrael's hero ability rss

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Johannes Benedikt
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So the ability reads: you recover 2 fatigue when Syndrael hasn't moved in this turn.

So there are 2 things I ran into last game that weren't 100% clear to me:

1.) When Syndrael stands up, she technically didn't move this turn, but it seems kind of odd that she instantly recovers 2 additional fatigue every time she revives herself. So we ruled against it (kept the fatigue), because it made the game closer and more interesting, but what is the official stance on this?

2.) Is moving with fatigue considered moving hence she can't regenerate 2 fatigues when she moved with fatigue? (We considered movement via fatigue to not trigger her skill).

thx in advance
DA_Maz
 
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Ian McCarthy
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Well, movement equals spending movement points, which you can gain by burning fatigue, so she definitely would not be able to trigger her heroic ability if she moves with fatigue during her turn.

Standing up, on the other hand, does not spend movement points, so yes, she should get her bonus fatigue recovery when reviving herself.

That one seems a little less clear and is, as you say, odd, but no more odd than allowing her to attack or search and still recover fatigue. They all represent some form of movement, just not in game terms.
 
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voidreturn
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DA_Maz wrote:
1.) When Syndrael stands up, she technically didn't move this turn, but it seems kind of odd that she instantly recovers 2 additional fatigue every time she revives herself. So we ruled against it (kept the fatigue), because it made the game closer and more interesting, but what is the official stance on this?


Moving would be move actions or fatigue moving. Considering that you fatigue out when you are knocked down, recovering 2 fatigue for spending both of your actions to stand up isn't much to write home about.

DA_Maz wrote:
2.) Is moving with fatigue considered moving hence she can't regenerate 2 fatigues when she moved with fatigue? (We considered movement via fatigue to not trigger her skill).


Fatigue moving is still moving. You aren't taking an action, but it is moving all the same (also follows the same rules about entering spaces, etc).
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Johannes Benedikt
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thx for your quick answers
 
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Craig Bocketti
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I don't think that Syndrael would recover those two fatigue if she stood up herself. Once the stand-up action has been performed her turn would immediately end per the rules

Stand-up wrote:
......t. To stand up, the player rolls two
red power dice, recovers damage equal to the � rolled, recovers fatigue
equal to the � rolled, replaces his hero token with his hero figure, and
then flips his Activation card facedown to indicate his turn is over (he
may not perform an additional action).


Yes it says additional actions but I think that is meant to convey that he can't do anything else after standing up, like heroic feats/abilities and non-actions.
 
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mustardayonnaiz wrote:
I don't think that Syndrael would recover those two fatigue if she stood up herself. Once the stand-up action has been performed her turn would immediately end per the rules

Stand-up wrote:
......t. To stand up, the player rolls two
red power dice, recovers damage equal to the � rolled, recovers fatigue
equal to the � rolled, replaces his hero token with his hero figure, and
then flips his Activation card facedown to indicate his turn is over (he
may not perform an additional action).


Yes it says additional actions but I think that is meant to convey that he can't do anything else after standing up, like heroic feats/abilities and non-actions.


This is confirmed in the FAQ. Once a hero stands up, the turn immediately ends.

Just to make a point (about the crappy rules for this game) "has moved this turn" means anything that puts you out of your starting square, not just move actions or fatigue. So, any of the various teleport abilities, for instance, will cancel Syndarel's ability. Unlike most of the rest of the game, in this case the ability actually does exactly what it seems like it should do.
 
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Darren Nakamura
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http://www.destructoid.com/author.phtml?a=1364
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I agree that heroes can't *do* anything after a Stand Up action, but I always viewed Syndrael's Hero Ability as a passive thing that happened, not something she did. I'd rule that her Hero Ability does trigger after a Stand Up, but I suppose I could see the argument for it not triggering.
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Alexander Einich
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This question has been answered in the "FFG Sez" thread (p.4):

...Last example (and the answer might be different because it happens at the end of the turn, when the hero is back on the map) would be Syndrael's ability "If you have not moved this turn, you recover 2 fatigue at the end of your turn.". Does she recover 2 fatigue after Standing Up on her own?

Answer from Justin:

Syndrael, since she wouldn't have moved, would recover 2 fatigue after performing a Stand-Up action.
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Johannes Benedikt
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wow thx a lot

so there even is an official answer that rules her ability to trigger if she revives by herself.

I hope this gets added to the FFG sez wiki, because I was searching for that for some time before I posted this question. Of course I didn't scan through all the postings as there are ~10 sites now, but I'm glad that I'm not the only one wondering about that.

I guess this should mean:
case closed
 
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Jan Meyberg
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I'm sorry, but there is a little bit of the case left unclosed for me: What happens if Syndrael is PLACED rather than moved (by Oath of Honor, for example): She leaves her space but never had or spent movement points in this turn...

Flavourwise she MOVED. All right. But rulewise?

Greetings, Jan
 
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Darren Nakamura
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I would say the Oath of Honor teleport counts as moving for the sake of her Hero Ability, even though it is a "pick up and place" ability rather than a "move" ability. Moving is not just spending movement points, because skills like Charge and Advance are still considered movement.
 
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Zachary Mott
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There's a difference between spending movement points and removing your hero from the board and then replacing him/her in a different space.

I would think Oath of Honor, being a remove/replace ability, would still allow Syndrael's heroic ability to trigger, but Advance, which allows you to move and perform an attack after defeating a monster, would not.

I think her hero ability only triggers if she has not spent any movement points to enter a new space on her turn.

Note that in certain quests (e.g. Prey, from Shadow of Nerekhall), heroes can spend movement points to interact with quest objects. This creates a weird edge case where she could start her turn adjacent to such an object, spend a fatigue for a movement point, spend the movement point to pick up a quest object, and end her turn in the same space, and thus trigger her heroic ability.

This gets even weirder if for some reason she generates movement points with a move action, spends one of them to pick up the object, and forfeits the rest at the end of her turn. In this way, she can 1) use a move action; 2) spend a movement point; 3) remain in the same space; and 4) trigger her heroic ability?

Did she move? Did she not move? Will the realm of Terrinoth implode in the face of such ambiguity?


tl;dr
the part in bold is the important part of this post.


EDIT:
I've always thought that movement component of Advance should function exactly like a move action, but I don't think that's technically the case, so if you want to disagree about the bold part above, that's a really good place to start.
 
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Jan Meyberg
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Thank you a lot for sharing your thougts!

I agree with both ways of reading her ability:

a) Syndrael's hero ability triggers if she did not leave her space in the current turn.
This interprets "move" storywise: "Syndrael holds her ground."
or

b) Syndrael's hero ability triggers if she has not spent any movements points to enter a new space in her turn.
This interprets "move" rulewise: "Syndrael does not use Movement Points to enter a new space."

Usually I tend to interpret rules in a way which supports the storytelling aspect of a game (and thus would prefer a) ), but in this case I'd prefer option b): Syndrael's starting skill (regarding her as the "Knight"-archetype) corresponds way better with her hero ability this way!
(I'd like to know if there's an official ruling, though ;-) )
 
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Paul
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"Moving" as a verb in this game is equivalent to "entering a space." Any card text that triggers "when ___ moves into a space adjacent to you" for example, is saying the same thing as "when _____ enters a space adjacent to you."

1)Placing a figure with reinforcements is not entering a space, nor is standing up after being knocked out (as has been clarified.)

2)Taking a move action to gain MP just to trade an item with an adjacent hero is not moving, as no new spaces are entered.

3) Every form of movement results in at least 1 new space being entered- if it's spending movement points or using advance, you enter each space along the path. If you use Oath of Honor, you enter the space you are placed in. This is even true if you are dark charmed or thrown (though those shouldn't be occurring on Syndrael's turn.)

There's a very easy litmus test for Syndrael:
Q: Did she at any point satisfy the trigger "enter a space" this turn?

If yes, she does not recover 2 fatigue.
If no, she recovers 2 fatigue.
 
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