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Subject: Wanting to play, but extremely confused where to start rss

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Svetgar Savage

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I've got a copy of the revised core set, the Warfare rulebook, and the SSU starter. (Yes, I ordered a bunch of crap on Miniature Market without knowing what I was buying )

So, I've done some reading here and from what I can gather there seem to be 4 variations of the same game:

1. Dust Tactics (FFG version) - seems like this was modified along the way with the expansion packs and rules. Currently most popular, but will certainly be dead with the advent of...

2. Dust Tactics v2 (BF version) - just coming out / came out right now. Based on this forum, does not seem to be well received. Lots of changes, I think that incorporate all the rules from the expansions.

3. Dust Warfare - Dust with a traditional tabletop wargame rules. Has its own set of books for 3 of the expansions, but I'm not clear why, or why the other expansions don't have those books. Seems like this will be killed by...

4. Dust Battlefield - BF's version of grid less Dust Tactics. I get the impression that this isn't really a true tabletop wargame rule-set, but that may be wrong.

surprise

OK, so I really like the models and setting for this game. But what the heck am I getting into? Which of the 4 above choices should I be looking at playing for a first time? I should point out that I will likely only be playing with my wife and kids, the odds of me going to a game store and playing are virtually nil. So I don't really care what they are playing at the local store. I just want a good, clean, fun game with cool models that doesn't follow the Games Workshop design philosophy of "For every rule, there are at least 10 exceptions, with exceptions to the exceptions".

Also, what should I buy? Are the expansions worth buying? What about the original core set? I can get one for $175, is that worth it just for the models? (I don't care about collecting). Miniature Market is selling out alot of Dust stuff, so I would like to take advantage of it. It seems like stuff is being repackaged in a way that will be more expensive, so if I can get it before that I would like to.

Thanks!
 
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Kevin Martin
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Trying to figure this out myself. This site is where I'm digging for the answer: http://dust-devils.com/
 
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Super Cruz

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I too just play with friends and wife. With the wife, we play Dust Tactics (FFG Version) but with friends we just started playing Warfare. For me at this time I will not be converting to the new ruleset so that takes numbers 2 and 4 off the table.

I'm not saying the V2 rules are terrible its just that I don't have that rulebook or the new dice to play it. Battlefield is a progression of the V2 (BF) ruleset adding suppression rules, etc to the V2 ruleset.

Overall, I would stick with DT FFG version because its all readily available, easy to learn and teach, has many instructional videos on youtube and forums here to answer any rule questions. I also don't think battlefield will be replacing warfare anytime soon.

If you have any game questions, ask in the forums and people will be happy to respond. I do feel the expansions are worth it, especially snipers, command squads, and Operation Cerburus. These units add gameplay options and convert to Warfare well when you make the jump like I did.

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Martin Larouche
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I agree Dust is a heck of a mess right now.

That said, you even have a problem with the SSU starter. All the three recently released starters are not compatible with anything. It has part of the yet unreleased V2 ruleset and it has statistics for units (the provided cards) that is not compatible with ANY version of Dust outside the starters (yeah... go figure on that one shake )
So...

That's my best recommendation to you:

Play Dust Tactics V1 with the revised core set ruleset you already have. Find the V1 stats for your SSU units online (should not be hard. V1 uses large cards vs smaller V2 ones).
Any missing rule for an ability on an SSU unit you have that's not in the revised core set rulebook: a quick forum question on BGG -> get answered within a few hours.
It would definitely be the cheapest solution for you and the one i would recommend.

Upgrade to V2 down the line if you want (many of us will never, including me as i think it's a worse game). Or upgrade to "Warfare". You'd require the Sverograd and Hades campaign books to play your SSU with that game. However, i wouldn't recommend Warfare for family settings. Tactics is better for that. Warfare is definitely more of a "gamer's game".

In any case, your SSU force will be outmatched against the other factions you have. You might have to think about maybe getting a single unit to boost your SSU like the rifle squad.
 
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James Palmer
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If you don't mind sticking with the pre-2014 models, I'd say stick with V1. The rules are very simple, and you'll have no problem playing with the wife and kids.

$175 for the original core set is a pretty good deal - the included troops and walkers are all good, and currently most of them, especially the walkers, are out of print.

If you're looking at some of the new stuff and thinking, "I gotta get me some of that", then I'd say look into V2. The new stuff won't have official V1 stats, so that's what you're going to need to use. You may want to go with V2, as eventually you probably will want to switch, and it might be best not to have to teach your wife and kid a totally new set of rules when you do.

Dust Warfare is a fantastic game, but is more involved and takes longer to play than Tactics. I think for playing with the wife and kid, you're best to stick with the grid.

For maximum fun, get some 3D terrain. The Cerberus expansion has a fantastic building expansion, and if you look in the files section, you can find some print-and-play cardboard terrain that really does look great on the board, a lot better than what the game comes with. Just those 2 acquisitions (one of which is virtually free) will make your games twice as fun.
 
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Svetgar Savage

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Thanks everyone for the replies. Okay so it looks like warfare is definitely going to be out.

Most of the stuff that looks like miniature market is clearing out is the Fantasy Flight Games stuff. Given that you all already know what I have, what would be good additions to that set to expand on and have a lot of fun with? I see all these different units in stock but I don't know which ones would be good and which ones aren't worth getting.

Oh and I managed to get one of the older Fantasy Flight medium allied Walker boxes with the four different configurations for the weapons. a local game store had it in stock.
 
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Juha Niittynen
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I will use this thread instead of starting a new one on basically the same subject:

I'm also interested in getting into this game but the different versions are confusing. I found both the original core set and revised core set as second hand copies and now I have few questions about which one to get:
1) Are the two core sets compatible with each other?
2) If not, which one I should go with?
3) If they are, is it sensible to get both?
4) Are the expansion units/troops compatible with which core set?
5) Can all the compatibility issues fixed with the "Unit Card Upgrade Pack"?

Thanks for the help.
-Juha
 
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Martin Larouche
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JuhaNiit wrote:
I will use this thread instead of starting a new one on basically the same subject:

I'm also interested in getting into this game but the different versions are confusing. I found both the original core set and revised core set as second hand copies and now I have few questions about which one to get:
1) Are the two core sets compatible with each other?
2) If not, which one I should go with?
3) If they are, is it sensible to get both?
4) Are the expansion units/troops compatible with which core set?
5) Can all the compatibility issues fixed with the "Unit Card Upgrade Pack"?

Thanks for the help.
-Juha
¸

1) Yes and No. They are perfectly compatible but a few tweaks needs to be done to the original core sets stat cards for units. Namely change the range "1" weapons to range "C" and the point value of the units which needs to be changed to their Revised values. Those values can be found on FFG's support page for the older units.

2) Both

3) Yes

4) All of them, save for the new faction-specific starter sets and all new units coming out after them. However, some units might require rules from the various Operation boxes for specific abilities if they were released after the revised. All of those rulebooks can be downloaded from Battlefront's website.

5) The card upgrade pack fixes the elements mentionned in #1. Never bought them personally since it's an easy fix on the cards.
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Svetgar wrote:
I've got a copy of the revised core set, the Warfare rulebook, and the SSU starter. (Yes, I ordered a bunch of crap on Miniature Market without knowing what I was buying )

So, I've done some reading here and from what I can gather there seem to be 4 variations of the same game:

1. Dust Tactics (FFG version) - seems like this was modified along the way with the expansion packs and rules. Currently most popular, but will certainly be dead with the advent of...

2. Dust Tactics v2 (BF version) - just coming out / came out right now. Based on this forum, does not seem to be well received. Lots of changes, I think that incorporate all the rules from the expansions.

3. Dust Warfare - Dust with a traditional tabletop wargame rules. Has its own set of books for 3 of the expansions, but I'm not clear why, or why the other expansions don't have those books. Seems like this will be killed by...

4. Dust Battlefield - BF's version of grid less Dust Tactics. I get the impression that this isn't really a true tabletop wargame rule-set, but that may be wrong.

surprise

OK, so I really like the models and setting for this game. But what the heck am I getting into? Which of the 4 above choices should I be looking at playing for a first time? I should point out that I will likely only be playing with my wife and kids, the odds of me going to a game store and playing are virtually nil. So I don't really care what they are playing at the local store. I just want a good, clean, fun game with cool models that doesn't follow the Games Workshop design philosophy of "For every rule, there are at least 10 exceptions, with exceptions to the exceptions".

Also, what should I buy? Are the expansions worth buying? What about the original core set? I can get one for $175, is that worth it just for the models? (I don't care about collecting). Miniature Market is selling out alot of Dust stuff, so I would like to take advantage of it. It seems like stuff is being repackaged in a way that will be more expensive, so if I can get it before that I would like to.

Thanks!


I stumbled upon this game a few years ago, and have been playing in the same context as you. I would not spend the $175 on the original core set if you are not a collector. The revised core set has most of the rules, and supposedly they are better interpreted than the original. Plus, when I was first starting out, I found some good online tutorials that placed everything into context. The main advantage of the original set was the massive tile set that was included, but that can be purchased separately now for around $30. The original campaign book is online as well I believe.

Since you have the SSU starter set, you already have the hero and Mech from the operation Zverograd campaign, the 2 most important elements for bringing the SSU up to speed when compared with the revised core edition. If you were to purchase the revised core addition, then one or 2 additional SSU infantry units would give you three equal forces, plus some tank traps and crates and 2 large playing surfaces.

Dust has messed with unit point system from the beginning. The original set, and 1 unit I purchased, has values in the single digits. To make these compatible with the revised edition, just multiply by a factor of 10. So a "2" becomes 20. In the new v2 edition, it seems as though they have halved the values, so a v2 unit worth "9" would be like and "18" revised core unit. The original scenarios, as well as earlier tournament play focused on a total unit value of 200, so the v2 100 value seems about right.
 
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JuhaNiit wrote:
I will use this thread instead of starting a new one on basically the same subject:

I'm also interested in getting into this game but the different versions are confusing. I found both the original core set and revised core set as second hand copies and now I have few questions about which one to get:
1) Are the two core sets compatible with each other?
2) If not, which one I should go with?
3) If they are, is it sensible to get both?
4) Are the expansion units/troops compatible with which core set?
5) Can all the compatibility issues fixed with the "Unit Card Upgrade Pack"?

Thanks for the help.
-Juha


1) Yes, but imo, the original is not worth the cost.

2) I would go with the revised core set.

3) It's not sensible, but you get an extra mech on each side, I believe, and a tile set. You would double up on some units. It is more sensible to get the revised core set, and the tile set if you have to have it. The revised core set came with two paper terrain fold outs, which are reversible, in addition to 2 tank traps, 2 ammo crates, and around 9-11 individual terrain tiles.

4) Yes, from what I can tell. The unit point system has 3 modes, the original was single digits (just multiply by 10), the revised set, and subsequent units hang around 20 - 30, and designed for an army totaling 200 points, the v2 seems to have units that are half this amount eg, 9 - 15.

The movement of the v2 units seems to "simplify" the fast movement ability of the older units. In the original, a unit might have had a movement of 1, but they had the "fast" ability, so they could move one extra space at the end of one move action (once per activation). A unit with a movement of 1, with "fast", could actually move 2 spaces. If the unit took 2 actions to move, they could move 3 spaces ie, a 1 space move, another space for the "fast" ability, then their second move action being 1 for a total of 3 spaces. In v2, they have simplified this with the move and force march attributes. A unit, like the "Hell Boys," used to have the "fast" ability, but now they just normally move 2, and with the double movement, or march as in v2, they move 3. It works out the same.

5) Yes they can, but they are not necessary, imo, though the prices seem reasonable.

All of the rules that were introduced in campaigns in v1 are available for download as of today, by FF. It seems as though the campaigns are also downloadable.

I have not played v2 tactics, nor have I played original warfare (though it seems to be similar to battleground. The main difference I see between the 2 (v1 tactics and v2 tactics) are cover, and the unit point system. The unit point system seems easily addressable. The cover situation is a little different. V2, from what I can tell, eliminates the "soft cover" of the old system, giving it to all infantry units, and "Hard cover" is for structures. Also, in the old version, mechs were never afforded any kind of cover. I believe this was a ploy to sell dice, and keep people from using generic dice (the old system had 2 hit sides and 4 miss sides).

Hope this helps. I stumbled across this thread trying to buy up the last v1 stuff.

If it was me starting out, I would get the revised core set, and then I would get the operation Seelowe campaign because it has useful building tiles, tank traps, ammo crates, plus 2 heroes that compliment the core set, and those campaigns are fun to play ( I personally do not care for the 3d buildings, because they are fiddly). My second choice would be the zverograd campaign. They were fun too, and you get a mech, a hero, and a modular building.

Hope this helps you and future readers.


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Juha Niittynen
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decromint wrote:

1) Yes, but imo, the original is not worth the cost.

...

Hope this helps you and future readers.


Thanks for the help. However, I already picked up a second-hand copy of the original core set. Or actually the guy had two copies and I bought both of them for 80 euros (about 110 US dollars). Given the amount of stuff it seemed like a decent way to start.

I'm still waiting to hear back from the guy who was selling the second-hand copy of the revised core set to buy that one as well.

Can't wait to get started :)
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James Palmer
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JuhaNiit wrote:
decromint wrote:

1) Yes, but imo, the original is not worth the cost.

...

Hope this helps you and future readers.


Thanks for the help. However, I already picked up a second-hand copy of the original core set. Or actually the guy had two copies and I bought both of them for 80 euros (about 110 US dollars). Given the amount of stuff it seemed like a decent way to start.

I'm still waiting to hear back from the guy who was selling the second-hand copy of the revised core set to buy that one as well.

Can't wait to get started


Sounds like you got a fantastic deal - a great way to get started into the game.
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