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The Hunters: German U-Boats at War, 1939-43» Forums » Rules

Subject: Questioning Rule 11.4.4 rss

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Tyrone Newby
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Rule 11.4.4 states that U-Boat Kommandants cannot switch uboat types eg. from a VII to IX boat,but my research on a couple of sites has proven this is not a harden fact;here are three examples of U-Boat Aces(also there is a few others I didn't put down,some of them not Aces though):Fritz-Julius Lemp U-30(VIIA)Nov 38 to U110(IXB) Nov 40;Herbert Kuppish U94(VIIC)Aug40 to U-516(IXC)Jun43;Jost Metzler U69(VIIC)Nov40 to U-847(IXD2)Feb43.as you can see they switched boat types;so I'd like someone to explain the need for rule 11.4.4 it would be nice if G.Smith or John Kranz could explain this to me,also I'd like to hear from other BGGers about this,and their thoughts.
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Jim P
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But what I do have are a very particular set of skills, skills I have acquired over a very long career. Skills that make me a nightmare for people like you… And I will beat you.
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Rule 11.4.4 states that U-Boat Kommandants cannot switch uboat types eg. from a VII to IX boat, but my research on a couple of sites has proven this is not a harden fact; here are three examples of U-Boat Aces(also there is a few others I didn't put down, some of them not Aces though):


Let us take a look at these three you went with as your examples;

Fritz-Julius Lemp U-30(VIIA)Nov 38 to U110(IXB) Nov 40 captured at sea on 2nd patrol with his Type IX, Lemp himself was killed and the Code machine and the latest code book were captured.

Herbert Kuppish U94(VIIC)Aug40 to U-516(IXC)Jun43 No war patrol to U-847(IXD2) Jul43 lost at sea 1st patrol in the Type IX.

Jost Metzler U69(VIIC)Nov40 to U-847(IXD2)Feb43. No war patrol.

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As you can see they switched boat types; so I'd like someone to explain the need for rule 11.4.4 it would be nice if G.Smith or John Kranz could explain this to me, also I'd like to hear from other BGGers about this, and their thoughts.


OK so you were able to find a few captains that switched boat types but this does not indicate a common practice. I went through a couple dozen or so records on uboat.net, as I do not have the interest or time to go through all 1400 some u-boat captain’s names, and found that most of the ones I saw being on both Type VII & IX boats indicated that one or the other boat type had no war patrols, same as two of your choice above. Those that did sail both boats into battle tended to loose their lives quit quickly in the IX’s. Hum maybe why they didn’t switch type too often? I don’t know! But as I stated this is by no means an exhaustive search.

So as you so forcefully stated, “this is not a harden fact”, I don’t remember Greg saying this is the reason for the rule, nevertheless neither does your research illustrate a trend in history to prove otherwise. As for rule 11.4.4 I see no reason to discard it. A hand full of captains that did sail on war patrols are the exception (quite a small group it seems) and not the rule.

Most likely the rule represents the fact that captains’ were assigned to particular flotilla which I believe (IIRC) each flotilla ran mostly one type of U-boat. But as Greg has said before, if you, or any one else, wants to make a variant go right ahead and do so.

This rule does not bother me in the least, but if I did want to have a captain switch types I doubt Greg or John would cross the country and take my game away for doing so.

I have a few house rules that add flavor and don’t change the games mechanics, like switching types would be, and they work fine. So, if you wish, have a die roll, say 2D6, when a captain is going for an upgrade and if he rolls a 2 then he may switch U-Boat types. No need to through down a gauntlet to the designers, just make a suggestion for a house rule and state your reason.

Jim

PS My guess for these switches of boat types has to do with training of new crews and not for going out to war in them. That would explain why they never went on patrol. But this is only a my thoughts.
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Tyrone Newby
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I like your answer to my quarry ,and no,I wasn't trying to throw the gauntlet down to the designers,I just wanted to clarify in my own mind why he decided on that rule(I just thought it would have been interesting what he had to say);don't get me wrong,as far as I'm concern,when Greg Smith or John speaks about their game(s),I listen.
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Gregory Smith
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Heya,
The reason I put the rule in, was in the vast, dare I say overwhelming majority of cases, it applies.
Yes, out of hundreds of boats, you found a couple of exceptions. But it seemed to me the germans kept guys in the same series of boat - and hence the rule. It just seemed to me that allowing a player to bounce back and forth would be pretty a historical. So that's the intent.
But the beauty of it is, of course, you can disregard this if you wish. But that was my thinking.
I hope that makes sense to you,
Greg
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Tyrone Newby
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Thanks for the reply Greg;and yes that makes perfect sense to me;I think its always good to hear from the designer on these things;always a #1 fan.
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