Recommend
4 
 Thumb up
 Hide
27 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Dust Tactics» Forums » General

Subject: some musings on the old Fantasy Flight era VS. the new Battlefront era rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
fightcitymayor
United States
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
badge
"This is a really weird game, and you’ll find that most people will not want to play this."
Avatar
mb
The Op:Babylon Kickstarter has shown us a good chunk of where Battlefront's plans lay for Dust Tactics, and it has been interesting & informative to note the differences between the Dust Tactics we know and the Dust Tactics we will know soon:

Less Fantasy, More War
The Dust Tactics world started out @ FFG with some fairly standard soldierly tropes, but along the way the storyline picks up more of the VK effects, and we saw Axis gorillas (with their own gorilla Hero,) and zombies (and later even more zombies,) and even a chef with a flamethrower and a goth sniper girl. So even with the fat armor suits and battlefield walkers, there was always a fantasy element to it. Scan through the Op:Babylon units and you'll see the Axis units have a nearly identical look to each other (outside of some heroes) as does the allied USMC who all don the typical seafoam blue/green uniform across the board (including the heroes.) We see less fantasy and more fatigues.

New units for the same roles
Looking back at the FFG era, we see that each force had similar roles that got filled out: Each faction had a leader unit, and an observer duo, and a sniper duo, and a heavy leader unit, and a light walker, and a medium walker, etc. etc. etc. With Op:Babylon a lot of what we see mirrors that initial experience: In the add-on forces once again we see a 2-person observer squad for each faction, a 5-person command squad with each of the same 5 roles we know from before (leader, medic, mechanic, gunner, and radioman,) and a selection of light/medium/heavy walkers in the same guises we already know, which leads me to...

Same units, different colors
It has been noted several times, but the walkers across the board are re-paints of existing walkers that we know from the FFG era. The basic Axis troops in their army deal are variations on the 2 Ubertoten squads we saw in Wave-7. The new allied marines are variations of the Devil Dogs we were introduced to in Wave-8. The new heroes are mostly unique, but the rank-and-file are basically all mix-&-match versions of pieces & parts we have already seen.

So the idea of a Battlefront "reboot" of the game could certainly come down to what is important to you: If you have already invested in the FFG era units, then I can see how jaded your outlook could get upon viewing the Op:Babylon KS. It would be difficult to muster enthusiasm for a new command squad wearing brown fatigues that differs little from my existing command squad, etc. Just like I can see how new players could look at the same thing and see an entirely different set of circumstances, almost a ground-floor that they can get in on where the setting and models are more "theirs."

7 
 Thumb up
0.02
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Larouche
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
Melting souls with cuteness since 2007
badge
Lovin' N-16
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Agree with you there.

These new units are meant to replace the basic units we already have.

FFG's stock not selling as fast as they want so they put similar units that serve the same role?[/theory]
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dave Smith
United Kingdom
Gillingham
Kent
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
It's early days yet in the desert and it's fine with me to start with the core troop types for the setting before moving on to all the fancy stuff. Who knows what they will dig up in the desert later on, I'm really looking forward to seeing the campaign grow and develop - just as I did in the Antarctic.
Don't see why the roles of the command should change at all, no matter where stationed that would remain the same.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K G
United States
albuquerque
New Mexico
flag msg tools
I wasn't born ! I sprang from the forhead of God , as he contemplated a particularly vile joke !
badge
I wasn't born , I was hatched in the deepest darkest part of the ocean , and raised by sharks !
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
deedob wrote:
Agree with you there.

These new units are meant to replace the basic units we already have.

FFG's stock not selling as fast as they want so they put similar units that serve the same role?[/theory]


i probably shouldnt mention this , because they just might do it , but you know i bet they COULD have done a kickstarter to buy ALL of the old FFG units , JUST to clear out the inventory . if they had set a pledge cap of say just what they NEEDED (AT MSRP) plus 10% , they could have bought out the back inventory and sent the figures on to the customers .

as an incentive to throw money at them , they could take that extra 10% and use it to produce spare heads and weapons and such to add as the stretch goals so that players end up with spare bits . since the KS would allow for cheaper purchases to players outside the US , it would give them added incentive .

as for me , i plan to wait till FFG does their next XMAS sale so i can buy a ton of gorillas to make 5 man squads !
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pawel
Poland
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
Exactly my feelings, I've got sizeable army from when FFG was at the steering wheel and not only Babylon stuff is not bringing anything new to the table, it also doesn't match winter style of existing models, so I have no incentive to support it.

Not only that, when I looked at how bf gonna release walkers I imidiately bought some of the old stuff... Are they crazy not to include weapon options and sell every wariant separately?

If this is the direction they are heading... Thanks but I won't hop on, I got enough stuff to enjoy v1 for a long time.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K G
United States
albuquerque
New Mexico
flag msg tools
I wasn't born ! I sprang from the forhead of God , as he contemplated a particularly vile joke !
badge
I wasn't born , I was hatched in the deepest darkest part of the ocean , and raised by sharks !
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
i do have to say , i find the tropical HARMANN a bit funny . i couple years back i had discussed the idea with Oliver , to revamp the stats for the HONEY , to update its phasers since the newer units had better stats .

at thattime i had also suggested just adding in an MG to the hermann , because just having an MG would have made it MUCH better , since atleast then it could defend against infantry . he said that sales of the herman had been so low , he didnt think they would ever justify a modification and rerelease of the kit .

i guess we were both wrong , all it needed was CHEESE devil
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K G
United States
albuquerque
New Mexico
flag msg tools
I wasn't born ! I sprang from the forhead of God , as he contemplated a particularly vile joke !
badge
I wasn't born , I was hatched in the deepest darkest part of the ocean , and raised by sharks !
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
deedob wrote:
Agree with you there.

These new units are meant to replace the basic units we already have.

FFG's stock not selling as fast as they want so they put similar units that serve the same role?[/theory]


but then comes the question ........what happens when FFG runs out of all that stock ? will BF produce more redundant units that do the same thing as the cheesy units THEY pumed out ?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hugo
United States
Seattle
Washington
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
One thing I've noticed is that there is a ton of 1-armor infantry, and the revamped walkers with open cockpits also have had a reduction in armor. Makes me wonder if the Babylon rules are going to have some desert rules that penalize heavy armor and vehicles?

Otherwise seems odd to focus so much on the weakest units, particularly when the dice count has been upped for most weapons...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boardgame Geek
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
This just looks broken.....



Quad Laser on the Jagd frame... gah.





They'll likely fix it but the above image says "(laser)" for weapon type...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K G
United States
albuquerque
New Mexico
flag msg tools
I wasn't born ! I sprang from the forhead of God , as he contemplated a particularly vile joke !
badge
I wasn't born , I was hatched in the deepest darkest part of the ocean , and raised by sharks !
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MaximumDT wrote:
This just looks broken.....



Quad Laser on the Jagd frame... gah.





They'll likely fix it but the above image says "(laser)" for weapon type...


the more they release , the more rediculious they look . i had thought about getting a jagdleopold , but it looks kinda dumb with a big hull and small arms . so far the only axis unit i see that i mightget is the A1 command squad . other than that these units look rediculious , and overpowered .
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boardgame Geek
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
GrandInquisitorKris wrote:
MaximumDT wrote:
This just looks broken.....



Quad Laser on the Jagd frame... gah.





They'll likely fix it but the above image says "(laser)" for weapon type...


the more they release , the more rediculious they look . i had thought about getting a jagdleopold , but it looks kinda dumb with a big hull and small arms . so far the only axis unit i see that i mightget is the A1 command squad . other than that these units look rediculious , and overpowered .


This is what I thought of when I saw it for the first time...



The gun arms are the tiny T-Rex arms (on fire for fun, thanks google images!) in the picture for those not seeing it immediatly.

I'm not a fan of the aesthetic for these, it almost looks like you could pluck them off and put them on top of a tank and they would look cooler since they're so symmetrical.



If it wasn't for shipping issues I would jump in at $1.00 and add the heroes as addons but at this point since the actual release window is so soon I might as well get them from a LGS eventually when I travel to the "Big City" assuming they decide to stock this or just go the online route.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Larouche
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
Melting souls with cuteness since 2007
badge
Lovin' N-16
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What i find funny is the number of mistakes.

Both of them are listed as "lasers".

And then, the jagdwotan has laser weapons, with ammo crates for supplying the weapons. Meanwhile the jagdleopold has bullet-feeded guns... with vk-energy batteries as ammo behind the guns.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boardgame Geek
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb

Now for something goofy looking....






With that out of the way how about this teaser image which is likely the most interesting thing revealed in the Kickstarter thus far.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Beau Schultz
United States
Ohio
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
MaximumDT wrote:

Now for something goofy looking....





At least for those with a previous SSU army. This tank seems like an easy conversion:

Step 1 cut piece plastic pvc pipe/tube from hardware store.

Step 2 stick tube on the Mao Zedong turret.

Step 3 rotate turret 180 degrees.

 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Larouche
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
Melting souls with cuteness since 2007
badge
Lovin' N-16
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Fenton wrote:
MaximumDT wrote:

Now for something goofy looking....





At least for those with a previous SSU army. This tank seems like an easy conversion:

Step 1 cut piece plastic pvc pipe/tube from hardware store.

Step 2 stick tube on the Mao Zedong turret.

Step 3 rotate turret 180 degrees.



It's worse.
It's not only the turret's that rotated 180. It's the entire part under the turret.
This brings the turret itself on the "back" of the tank, near the fuel tanks.

And because of the fuel tanks, the turret cannot rotate much anymore...

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cygnus 2112
United States
Hudson
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
It looks more like a TD then a tank to me.. Besides, rotating that turret 90 degrees and firing a gun that large might result in a tank on its side...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Larouche
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
Melting souls with cuteness since 2007
badge
Lovin' N-16
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
deedob wrote:
Fenton wrote:
MaximumDT wrote:

Now for something goofy looking....





At least for those with a previous SSU army. This tank seems like an easy conversion:

Step 1 cut piece plastic pvc pipe/tube from hardware store.

Step 2 stick tube on the Mao Zedong turret.

Step 3 rotate turret 180 degrees.



It's worse.
It's not only the turret's that rotated 180. It's the entire part under the turret.
This brings the turret itself on the "back" of the tank, near the fuel tanks.

And because of the fuel tanks, the turret cannot rotate much anymore...



Also,

is it just me or did they forgot to paint some of the wheels in the thread? Maybe it's done on pupose? Seems like an unfinished job to me but whatever...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K G
United States
albuquerque
New Mexico
flag msg tools
I wasn't born ! I sprang from the forhead of God , as he contemplated a particularly vile joke !
badge
I wasn't born , I was hatched in the deepest darkest part of the ocean , and raised by sharks !
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MaximumDT wrote:





With that out of the way how about this teaser image which is likely the most interesting thing revealed in the Kickstarter thus far.



ok , i can see there being mercinaries in a WW2 game ,butthey should be cheap , and armed with a mix of outdated weapons , have lots of bodies(they are essentially a meat shield , and be mostly men . this looks like another attempt at an ONI army , which just takes away more flavor , and lets them release a single unit that all the factions can field so they dont have to produce a unit FOR each faction .

and did anyone else see the new "contractors" on the collectors page ? another unit of chicks for some quick T&A that doesnt fit the theme .

if Paolo just wants to introduce more boobs , why not just give us "pin up" art thatwe can buy as posters and such , as ollosed to just throwing out more figures that dont belong in the aesthetic of a wierd war 2 game .

seems like they are really "phoning it in " now
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Larouche
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
Melting souls with cuteness since 2007
badge
Lovin' N-16
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GrandInquisitorKris wrote:
MaximumDT wrote:





With that out of the way how about this teaser image which is likely the most interesting thing revealed in the Kickstarter thus far.



ok , i can see there being mercinaries in a WW2 game ,butthey should be cheap , and armed with a mix of outdated weapons , have lots of bodies(they are essentially a meat shield , and be mostly men . this looks like another attempt at an ONI army , which just takes away more flavor , and lets them release a single unit that all the factions can field so they dont have to produce a unit FOR each faction .

seems like they are really "phoning it in " now


This is the second "mercenary" squad released for Dust. The first one was just scenery... Is this just the same? If so... not interested.

If it's usable for gameplay, then it's something new and that's good. More gameplay options is always good.

Here's the previous "mercenaries" released last year shake :
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
K G
United States
albuquerque
New Mexico
flag msg tools
I wasn't born ! I sprang from the forhead of God , as he contemplated a particularly vile joke !
badge
I wasn't born , I was hatched in the deepest darkest part of the ocean , and raised by sharks !
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
no , there are also THESE contractors : https://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?set=a.622146271207045...
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Cygnus 2112
United States
Hudson
Wisconsin
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
deedob wrote:
deedob wrote:
Fenton wrote:
MaximumDT wrote:

Now for something goofy looking....





At least for those with a previous SSU army. This tank seems like an easy conversion:

Step 1 cut piece plastic pvc pipe/tube from hardware store.

Step 2 stick tube on the Mao Zedong turret.

Step 3 rotate turret 180 degrees.



It's worse.
It's not only the turret's that rotated 180. It's the entire part under the turret.
This brings the turret itself on the "back" of the tank, near the fuel tanks.

And because of the fuel tanks, the turret cannot rotate much anymore...



Also,

is it just me or did they forgot to paint some of the wheels in the thread? Maybe it's done on pupose? Seems like an unfinished job to me but whatever...


There are 2 different styles of road wheels - 3 of one style and 3 of another - I think that is what you are seeing that is making it look unfinished.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Larouche
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
Melting souls with cuteness since 2007
badge
Lovin' N-16
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
GrandInquisitorKris wrote:


Even more ridiculous.

Do they even want to be taken seriously?

I could go for the grainy pin-up posters artwork from the early Dust years like what was in the Dust strategy board game. Even minis like Angela i found "ok" since it's a hero-type of mini meant to be outside the norm of the rest of the troops.

These however is just yuk made for teen boys...

(Mental note: should post these pictures everytime someone tries to argue about real WW2 VS Dust in threads).
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Martin Larouche
Canada
Longueuil
Quebec
flag msg tools
Melting souls with cuteness since 2007
badge
Lovin' N-16
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Cygnus2112 wrote:
deedob wrote:
deedob wrote:
Fenton wrote:
MaximumDT wrote:

Now for something goofy looking....





At least for those with a previous SSU army. This tank seems like an easy conversion:

Step 1 cut piece plastic pvc pipe/tube from hardware store.

Step 2 stick tube on the Mao Zedong turret.

Step 3 rotate turret 180 degrees.



It's worse.
It's not only the turret's that rotated 180. It's the entire part under the turret.
This brings the turret itself on the "back" of the tank, near the fuel tanks.

And because of the fuel tanks, the turret cannot rotate much anymore...



Also,

is it just me or did they forgot to paint some of the wheels in the thread? Maybe it's done on pupose? Seems like an unfinished job to me but whatever...


There are 2 different styles of road wheels - 3 of one style and 3 of another - I think that is what you are seeing that is making it look unfinished.


Yeah, think you're right.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Boardgame Geek
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
deedob wrote:
GrandInquisitorKris wrote:


Even more ridiculous.

Do they even want to be taken seriously?

I could go for the grainy pin-up posters artwork from the early Dust years like what was in the Dust strategy board game. Even minis like Angela i found "ok" since it's a hero-type of mini meant to be outside the norm of the rest of the troops.

These however is just yuk made for teen boys...

(Mental note: should post these pictures everytime someone tries to argue about real WW2 VS Dust in threads).



Oh man, hadn't seen these till now, they are hilariously over the top, wow.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Beau Schultz
United States
Ohio
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
MaximumDT wrote:
deedob wrote:
GrandInquisitorKris wrote:


Even more ridiculous.

Do they even want to be taken seriously?

I could go for the grainy pin-up posters artwork from the early Dust years like what was in the Dust strategy board game. Even minis like Angela i found "ok" since it's a hero-type of mini meant to be outside the norm of the rest of the troops.

These however is just yuk made for teen boys...

(Mental note: should post these pictures everytime someone tries to argue about real WW2 VS Dust in threads).



Oh man, hadn't seen these till now, they are hilariously over the top, wow.


All mercs must be female in the Dust universe, as all the silhouettes of the infantry mercs look female as well.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.