Recommend
1 
 Thumb up
 Hide
13 Posts

Android: Netrunner» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Known vs. Unknown Cards and Relative Power Levels rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Zeb
United States
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
You found me!
badge
Hiss.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
An interesting focus in Android: Netrunner, especially compared to similar card games, is the amount of hidden information. Similar games can have some hidden information such as deck compisistion, but it seems like A:NR takes that to a new level. With this in mind, how does hidden information affect card power levels?

Certainly some cards are better when unexpected. Since corps tend to hide more information, they have plenty of cards that increase in power when sprung from secret. A timely Snare! or Ronin can mean the game. Likewise, the runner has access to enabling cards like Sneakdoor Beta and Stimhack.

Which cards do you think are most affected by the element of surprise, for better or worse? Are there any cards that are unplayable if known to be included in your deck? Which cards are best when included as a surprise splash?

Is a Scorchless Weyland worth playing if your opponent knows?

Which advanceable traps are most surprising in certain factions?

Should scouting be aggressively prevented?

I'm looking forward to hearing the community's thoughts on these matters.


2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rana Puer
United States
Michigan
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I don't have a ton of high-level experience, but I do know that one time I tried playing Weyland and using all 15 influence on Jinteki net damage stuff hoping for a surprise flatline. On one of the first few turns, the runner got into R&D and saw Neural Katana, which ruined everything. Just throwing that thought out there.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Oscar Iglesias
Spain
Alcobendas
Madrid
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Scorchless Weyland works wonders. Your opponent will remove tags ASAP and install plascrate for sure.

I usually brings traps were non spected just for that surprise effect.
Even a Junebug accesed from R&D (and trashed) is a nice thing although it didnt hit the runner. Now the runner thinks you are using traps, so all your advanced cards are really dangerous for him. Even if that was the only trap in your deck... but the runner didnt know it XD

Scouting should be forfidden in Netrunner, and when playing a tournament no player should be placed behind the corp player because he can ruin the corps play even out of purpose.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
John O'Brien
United Kingdom
Reading
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I find a one-of Junebug is a great inclusion in most slow agenda-scoring decks. If it makes it into your hand unseen, it can be very powerful, especially late in the game, when they'll forget the possibility of traps and run it if they can get it.

If they see it, they'll trash it, but they'll be a bit more wary of your deck and less eager to run. Install-advance-advance a PriReq, waggle your eyebrows and make your best "it's not a Junebug, honest!" face.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Barnett
United Kingdom
Northwich
Cheshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
This is the main reason behind any difference of tournament decks (where I will be often be playing people I have never played before) and casual netrunner nights (where I have played people and decks many many times).

My tournament decks tend to be "straight", no trickery, and you can pretty much guess what cards are in my deck. My games with friends are more likely to have the one Junebug or Snare! to add variety to the deck and make repeat games more fun.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Michael McLaughlin
United States
Virginia
flag msg tools
metagaia wrote:
This is the main reason behind any difference of tournament decks (where I will be often be playing people I have never played before) and casual netrunner nights (where I have played people and decks many many times).

My tournament decks tend to be "straight", no trickery, and you can pretty much guess what cards are in my deck. My games with friends are more likely to have the one Junebug or Snare! to add variety to the deck and make repeat games more fun.


That's probably true with most players, which is all the more reason to throw a 1-of Snare! in your tournament deck to catch the unwary!

OK, now I sound like Vizzini from the Princess Bride, explaining why I can clearly not choose the wine in front of you...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Wray
United States
Colorado
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
metagaia wrote:
This is the main reason behind any difference of tournament decks (where I will be often be playing people I have never played before) and casual netrunner nights (where I have played people and decks many many times).

My tournament decks tend to be "straight", no trickery, and you can pretty much guess what cards are in my deck. My games with friends are more likely to have the one Junebug or Snare! to add variety to the deck and make repeat games more fun.


It seems like a tournament would be the best time to throw in a surprise or two. If your opponent can correctly guess what's in your deck, doesn't that put you at a disadvantage when you least want it?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zeb
United States
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
You found me!
badge
Hiss.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I was surprised at a Store Championship in the area by a double-advanced Aggressive Secretary in a NBN Fast Advance deck surprise
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Captain Frisk
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
badge
MIND|GAMES
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
cynchwyrm wrote:
metagaia wrote:
This is the main reason behind any difference of tournament decks (where I will be often be playing people I have never played before) and casual netrunner nights (where I have played people and decks many many times).

My tournament decks tend to be "straight", no trickery, and you can pretty much guess what cards are in my deck. My games with friends are more likely to have the one Junebug or Snare! to add variety to the deck and make repeat games more fun.


It seems like a tournament would be the best time to throw in a surprise or two. If your opponent can correctly guess what's in your deck, doesn't that put you at a disadvantage when you least want it?


If you're expecting to compete for the top slot - you have to expect that by the end - any tricks you had will be gone. If there is a cut - you may have to play the same person a 2nd time - and if you're bouncing back and forth between the top tables, it's hard for your opponent to not notice when you scorch someone out of HB....
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Councilman Sokka
United States
Staunton
Virginia
flag msg tools
mb
Captain_Frisk wrote:
If you're expecting to compete for the top slot - you have to expect that by the end - any tricks you had will be gone. If there is a cut - you may have to play the same person a 2nd time - and if you're bouncing back and forth between the top tables, it's hard for your opponent to not notice when you scorch someone out of HB....


So what you're saying is that I should DEFINITELY put a 1x Junebug in for Regionals?

Jokes aside, I tend to fall just on this side of the fence with the issue. Having the Junebug for the kill at the right moment is great, but I would rather increase the deck's consistency elsewhere, which will reward my skill rather than my luck. And yes, the trick could easily be given away by the top cut!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Captain Frisk
United States
Connecticut
flag msg tools
badge
MIND|GAMES
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
invictus_blue wrote:
Captain_Frisk wrote:
If you're expecting to compete for the top slot - you have to expect that by the end - any tricks you had will be gone. If there is a cut - you may have to play the same person a 2nd time - and if you're bouncing back and forth between the top tables, it's hard for your opponent to not notice when you scorch someone out of HB....


So what you're saying is that I should DEFINITELY put a 1x Junebug in for Regionals?

Jokes aside, I tend to fall just on this side of the fence with the issue. Having the Junebug for the kill at the right moment is great, but I would rather increase the deck's consistency elsewhere, which will reward my skill rather than my luck. And yes, the trick could easily be given away by the top cut!


Singletons are a different matter. (For example I suspect that 1x Junebug / Overwriter / Secretary are stronger than 3x of any individual - as it increases the things that one has to prepare for -

I'm referring to doing something something crazy that can be played around (vs. deck designed around), I don't think you should expect to win a tournament.

If you're a mid range player - something crazy (lets say a 5 neural EMP combo out of HB) can win games against players who aren't prepared. However, once your secret's out of the bag, it's hard to win.

Katman wrecking it at Gencon last year is the rare example of something crazy hitting that can't be "played" around - you had to make changes to your deck to deal with it. Everyone was running gobs of strength 4 ice.... and Atman steamrolls that.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Daniel Wray
United States
Colorado
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
invictus_blue wrote:
Captain_Frisk wrote:
If you're expecting to compete for the top slot - you have to expect that by the end - any tricks you had will be gone. If there is a cut - you may have to play the same person a 2nd time - and if you're bouncing back and forth between the top tables, it's hard for your opponent to not notice when you scorch someone out of HB....


So what you're saying is that I should DEFINITELY put a 1x Junebug in for Regionals?

Jokes aside, I tend to fall just on this side of the fence with the issue. Having the Junebug for the kill at the right moment is great, but I would rather increase the deck's consistency elsewhere, which will reward my skill rather than my luck. And yes, the trick could easily be given away by the top cut!


Doesn't that work to your advantage, though? If an opponent changes their play based on knowing one card exists in your deck, that card has paid for its deck slot multifold. That knowledge cuts both ways.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jacek Wieszaczewski
Poland
Wrocław
Poland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Zebadiah wrote:
Is a Scorchless Weyland worth playing if your opponent knows?
It is. I played a Schorchless Weyland deck for a few weeks in a row in my city, everyone knew, still it was not easy. The SE package takes some deckslots and, most importantly, quite a lot of influence (typically 3x Snare!, 2x SEA Source). You can use this inf to fit great rig destruction tricks (Corporate Troubleshooter, Aggressive Secretary, Rototurret). If you have to play around all of these in addition to in-faction or neutral cards like Archer, Grim and Power Shutdown, it's very hard to avoid your breakers getting killed at least from time to time. Scorchless Weyland is way faster than Supermodernism, of course it also allows the runner to speed up as soon as he knows flatline is not a possibility, but even then the deck definitely has legs.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.