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Subject: Nightshade Lotus question rss

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Adam Gemmer
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I'm still pretty noobish to the game and I'm putting together the druid spellbook for a game tomorrow night. I usually start with the recommended books and tweak from there. I'm reading Nightshade Lotus and feel as thought I'm missing something.

It looks to me like something that costs 7 and can only attack once (because removing the one mist token is a condition of making the attack), and all the attack does is put the creature to sleep if I pay additional mana. So, if my opponent has a level 3 creature, it will cost me 12 mana to put a sleep token on it, which my opponent can remove for 3 mana. After that, my lotus is pretty much worthless.

I must be missing something. It's a level 3 conjuration, so I'm guessing that it's supposed to be pretty good, and there's three in the book so it seems like the designers consider it pretty essential to the druid's strategy, but I just don't see what it does.
 
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Scott Douglass
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You can make the attack multiple times, it's just that you can only trigger the Sleep effect once. Removing the token is not a prerequisite of the attack, you only remove it if you choose to pay the mana and apply the Sleep condition. Then you're still left with a 3 dice Unavoidable attack that can be sequenced with Thornlashers so that you pull your opponent and then immediately land a second attack with Nightshade Lotus. Or use it to clear Block/Reverse Attack and immediately follow up with an attack from a big creature.

I still don't really use Nightshade Lotus, but it's much better than it would be if you only got to attack once.
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Adam Gemmer
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Thanks for the quick response. Yeah, it does seem pretty bad to me, even if it's better than I thought.
 
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Aaron Brosman
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Nightshade Lotus (and Corrosive Orchid) have the extra benefit of not taking up one of your actions. You can have them go, then your creature, and if you're daring you own quick cast. Also, it's attack is ranged and so you can spray deadly spores on flying creatures in its zone.

Now, I generally only have one Nightshade Lotus in my books for an emergency, but I often include multiple Corrosive Orchids.
 
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Sam Carroll
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the chandrian wrote:
So, if my opponent has a level 3 creature, it will cost me 12 mana to put a sleep token on it,


As well as making an unavoidable 3-die attack which doesn't take up an action round and can be made every turn until the Lotus gets squished.

Quote:
which my opponent can remove for 3 mana.


. . . only if your opponent has an ability that lets them remove sleep markers by paying the removal cost. The Priestess does, as does the Wand of Healing; that's all I can think of at the moment. (Are there any other ways to pay to remove Sleep markers?) Otherwise, they will have to attack and damage said creature to wake it up, because you're certainly not going to do it for them.
 
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lettucemode
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spartax wrote:
(Are there any other ways to pay to remove Sleep markers?)


Technically the Renewing Spring can also remove conditions, but since your creature is asleep they can't take the action to drink from the well. So, no.

Simply attacking the creature they paid 12 mana to Sleep seems like a good deal to me though.
 
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Sam Carroll
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lettucemode wrote:
Simply attacking the creature they paid 12 mana to Sleep seems like a good deal to me though.


As I mentioned above, the 12 mana doesn't just place a sleep marker. You're paying 7 (more likely 6, if the Druid is wearing her ring) for a plant conjuration, then paying for a sleep marker.

First, the Sleep marker. This is slightly cheaper than using the "Sleep" incantation if it's a level 1-3 creature; significantly cheaper for larger creatures. If your opponent has a Wand of Healing or is playing the Priestess, then they can remove the marker for the same amount you spent to place it, in which case you break even on the sleep marker side. If they don't, then they'll have to attack their creature to wake it up. The best case for your opponent is that they have a level 1 creature within range (Bitterwood Fox or similar). But they might have to hit it with something big. Bear in mind that they're suffering not only the damage from their own attack, but the opportunity cost of not using that creature to attack you. And then they might lose the snoozer's next attack to the Daze marker - or it might lower that creature's defense roll so that you can hit it. (EDIT: I was thinking of Slam here, which turns into a Daze marker.)

Next, the lotus itself. When you place the sleep marker, you're making a 3-die unavoidable attack. Then after this, you still have a conjuration in play which can attack once per round if any enemies are in its zone.

1) Your opponent may avoid the lotus's zone, which gives you more control of the board.

2) Your opponent may come in and squish the lotus - but that will probably take two attacks, which will likely give your lotus a chance for at least a 2nd attack; meanwhile, they've spent three actions on dealing with what took you one to cast.

3) Your opponent might ignore the lotus, which means you'll get several free 3-die attacks - totally worth the 7 mana.

My feeling is that you're coming out ahead on the sleep marker versus casting the "sleep" spell, but probably coming out a little behind on the conjuration itself versus playing a similar-cost creature. So the nightshade lotus is not an instant-win, nor an auto-play. But if your opponent is not playing Priestess nor using many little creatures, nightshade lotus may be a strong play.
 
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