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Subject: Anarch vs NBN: What I learned after 40 matches in one week rss

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João Almeida
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I have been playing against NBN this whole week to prepare myself to a tournament in my FLGS. There was a debate in this thread about how you're supposed to beat Astro/Biotics, and I decided to accept the challenge.

My training method has been this: I played 10 matches, modified the deck, played 10 matches, modified the deck, and it kept going until the final build, which I believe is one of the strongest "Anarch tag floatting Account Siphon-less" deck possible before Honor and Profit (but I tested against a NBN deck that included H&P cards).

These are the important things I found out, specially when you compare my deck with the recently popular "Anatomy of Anarch" by Steven Wooley:

- Against NBN, it doesn't matter how many Xanadus and Rooks your Reina Roja manage to install, you'll never hurt the Corp as much as Whizzard (Howard + SanSan = free trashes) and Parasites on Pop-up Windows do. Astro/Biotics is too fast to waste time playing chess. Whizzard is boss here.

- Account Siphon is broken, I know. But NBN, due Sweeps Week and Shipment from SanSan, can avoid it by staying low on credits. A smart player will do that. Also, an ICE in HQ might prevent me from getting my credits in a key moment of the match. When your opponent is fast as Astro/Biotics is, you can't afford to have your main economy card denied like that.

- Nerve Agent is a monster in this match up. Multi HQ access forces the Corp to protect HQ in a deck that doesn't have a lot of ICEs. It is a must have if you expect to have any reliable chance of winning against NBN.

- Hemorrhage is terrible in this match up. I still like the card against Haas-Bioroid and Weyland, but it is probably the worse card in the game against NBN. Even Disrupter is more useful.

- Burst economy is more important than end game economy. Cards like Magnum Opus and Desperado are not worth their influence cost in this match up.

- Captain obvious here, but using Frame Job to slow NAPD Contract down is not worth it. Even when you forfeit a Breaking News. I tested it!

- Demolition Run makes Medium faster and transforms Nerve Agent in a killer machine. It took a little while, but Demolition Run is finally a scary card. I won't remove them from my deck any time soon.

So, the decklist!

Breakers
3x Knight (versatile and cheap)
2x Corroder (counter against Wraparound)
1x Mimic + 1x Yog.0 (usually useless, but I don't have Overmind yet, and these breakers are good in other match ups)

Programs
3x Parasite (kinda obvious...)
2x Medium + 2x Nerve Agent (multi access pressure and combo with Demo Run)
1x Datasucker (accelerates Parasite, but most of the time, you won't need it)

Economy
3x Lucky Find (great burst economy for a cheap price, awesome card)
3x Easy Mark + 3x Armitage Codebusting (particularly good against Closed Accounts, also Easy Mark -> Lucky Find sends you from zero to nine in 3 click, which is very strong)
2x Fall Guy (Data Leak protector that can become money when needed)
2x Joshua B. (Rachel Beckman for 1 credit = broken)
2x Spinal Modem (not as good as Desperado, but it's influence free)

Draw Power
2x Quality Time
2x John Masanori
(not much to say here)

Central Pressure
2x Demolition Run (seriously, this is godlike with Medium against a deck with such weak defenses like Astro/Biotics)
2x Vamp (influence free version of Account Siphon)
2x Data Leak Reverse (you'll be taking tags, so why not?)

Useless here, but too important in other match ups not to use them
2x Deja Vu
2x Plascrete Carapace
1x Emergency Shutdown

I hope this decklist and my advices help other people with problems against NBN. This deck is not failproof - it is a hard match up, NBN is strong -, but it is definitely the strongest build I've had against fast advance decks.

Feel free to ask anything, or to tell me my deck sucks.

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William Turner
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I'm afraid I really can't respect your decision to use Easy Mark and Lucky Find but no Sure Gamble. Everything else you say is suspect to me as a result.

I get the feeling many of your card choices were because you are missing a pack (like Overmind) and because you want to be different (no Account Siphon, no Sure Gamble).

That's all fine and people are free to play how they like but you've been putting this forward in the context of being competitive at the highest levels.
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j n
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Fjord wrote:
I'm afraid I really can't respect your decision to use Easy Mark and Lucky Find but no Sure Gamble. Everything else you say is suspect to me as a result.


Lucky Find is typically going to be just plain better than Sure Gamble if you can spare the influence. Easy Mark is moderately suspect, but it has the obvious advantage of being able to go from zero to Lucky Find and recover from Closed Accounts.

I don't think it's reasonable to be that suspect of the deck unless you have a specific idea of what to replace that influence with.

And yeah, you can just say "siphon" but he's not wrong that NBN Fast Advance, a pretty strong archetype that he's specifically trying to beat, is pretty resilient against siphon.
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J. Chris Miller
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Seems fun, I'll have to give it a shot. Any time I can try a new Siphonless build I enjoy it. Siphon is just so played out at this point.
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Erin OConnor
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Easy mark takes you from 0-3 credits and lucky find takes you from 3 to 9 credits. [Surprise, I do in fact have credits to make a run with] With Joshua B down you still have 2 clicks to make a run.

So I get why you have that pair of cards in the deck rather than the sure gamble.

Well played sir.
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Jared Harkness
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My thoughts as an NBN player:

-Whizzard has yet to instill any fear in me whatsoever, but if he feels useful go for it.

-Nerve Agent IS scary.
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Andrew Keddie
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Fjord wrote:
I'm afraid I really can't respect your decision to use Easy Mark and Lucky Find but no Sure Gamble. Everything else you say is suspect to me as a result.


You need to get over this. I'm going to say it here, very loudly, for everyone to see, and I stand by this statement:

SURE GAMBLE IS NOT RIGHT FOR EVERY DECK.

When you're designing a deck there should be ZERO 'auto-include' cards. Every single card in your deck needs to justify its place. Hraklea has tested this extensively and decided that Sure Gamble didn't make the cut. You want to prove him wrong, go make your own version which includes it and test it JUST AS THOROUGHLY before you go calling his deck suspect because he didn't take the 'obvious' cards.
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William Turner
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I'm fine with no Sure Gamble, there are many viable economies. But Lucky Find and Easy Mark are so similar that it's a difficult argument to make that Sure Gamble does not also belong in any deck using them. Basically Sure Gamble is a good card and in some decks, like with Prepaid Voice Pad or a tag-me no resource economy, it's so good that you want the 4th, 5th and 6th copies in the form of Lucky Find.
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g k
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I gotta agree that it seems weird to skip sure gamble while spending 9 influence on event economy.
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Beyer
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JaredRules wrote:
My thoughts as an NBN player:
...
-Nerve Agent IS scary.

Why? Please, if you make a point, support it. Knowing why and when Nerve Agent is scary is an important factor when in/excluding it from deck building.

Are there times in-game where you're not bothered by it? If yes, when? Are there things about the game state the runner can use to gauge whether Nerve Agent attacks are beneficial or not?
 
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Andrew Keddie
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GenericKen wrote:
I gotta agree that it seems weird to skip sure gamble while spending 9 influence on event economy.


You have to consider the game flow; not the influence. How often can this deck actually play a Sure Gamble? Compare that to how often it can play an Easy Mark or a Lucky Find, both of which have significantly lower hurdles to get over.

I also play Anarch, and I can tell you that I am often balls-to-the-wall with low credits. It's just a common place for Anarch decks to end up. Cards like these give you a quick burst recovery.

Influence there to shore up the weaknesses in your deck, or to bring in some unusual threats from out of faction. Seems to me that spending 9 influence to deal with a big weakness (being poor all the time) is a perfectly valid strategy.
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Felix Hathaway
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Could you explain why haemorrage (however its spelt) is bad vs NBN. I don't play against them much but would assume haemorrage would be good against any deck with a combo element? It also provides hq pressure.
 
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Paul Dempster
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Thanks for posting. 2 questions:
i) How many of the last 10 games against NBN did you win?
ii) Have you tried the same deck against a HB glacier deck that we will inevitably face in tourney round two?
 
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Andrew
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I've been playing wizzard since he came out and he has always been good against everyone but Core Weyland. I've been shouting it from the rooftops every chance I get here, so as a kindrid spirit I'll let you in on two more underrated cards.

Darwin is your AI breaker of choice, Darwin very quickly can bust through almost all of the "gear check" ICE. And if the corp clears virus counters then Darwin did his job admirably.

Wildside is the best draw card in the game, I'm not sure how well it will work with your vamp strategy but I think it still fits. If the corp trashes it you got your value already and it cost them since you probably just vamped. Don't be afraid to discard, your still drawing efficiently and now wildside is helping you draw past what you don't need right now.

I'm surprised DLR is worth the clicks to use it here, it seems like you'd be better off making medium runs. I'd try replacing them with sure gambles and use the extra money to run R&D more. DLR is for people who can't afford bo run, but astrobiotics isn't making it very expensive to get in.

Good luck, and thanks for testing Hemmorage for me, I was about to do that myself, so you saved me some trouble. It seems too click intensive, just like DLR is.
 
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Peter O
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I'm noticing no imp in your list. Did the Demo Runs make it superfluous?
 
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João Almeida
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Fjord wrote:
I'm afraid I really can't respect your decision to use Easy Mark and Lucky Find but no Sure Gamble.


Except for the first turn, it is really rare for this deck to stay with 5 credits or more. Lucky Find not only chains with Easy Mark, but it works with Joshua B. too (3 clicks = 3 credits, then Lucky Find).

You have to keep in mind that my main source of credits is Armitage Codebusting and this is a deck that keeps the decks. Paying for Sure Gamble is a lot harder than paying for Lucky Find.

I had been playing Sure Gamble in this deck from Opening Moves until Fear and Loathing, and removing Sure Gamble was a good thing.

coyotemoon722 wrote:
Seems fun, I'll have to give it a shot.


Echo2Omega wrote:
Well played sir.


Thanks

Stunke wrote:
Why? Please, if you make a point, support it. Knowing why and when Nerve Agent is scary is an important factor when in/excluding it from deck building.


Nerve Agent does two things in this deck:
- It allows me to steal agendas when the Corp is holding them in HQ, waiting for a Biotic/SanSan to score them from hand
- It allows me to Demo Run the entire hand when the Corp is holding Biotic Labors in HQ, waiting for an Agenda

whirrun wrote:
Could you explain why haemorrage (however its spelt) is bad vs NBN.


Spending a click to trash one card from HQ against a deck that has Anonymous Tip and Howard in faction is too slow. Demo Run does that better and it is more versatile.

The only matches where it worked well were the ones where I managed to stack 2x Hemorrhages at once - then it is retardedly good. But, in general, it is too slow to hurt a fast advance deck.

magnus_eisengrim wrote:
Thanks for posting. 2 questions:
i) How many of the last 10 games against NBN did you win?
ii) Have you tried the same deck against a HB glacier deck that we will inevitably face in tourney round two?


i) I won 7 matches out of 10, but the matches score seems to suggest that Anarch winning rate in this match up is closer to 60% rather than 70%. Whizzard is not The Collective.

ii) I didn't played 40 matches against other archetypes, but I tried it 5~6 times. It is a small sample, but the tournament is close and I won't have time to test everything I want.

Beating HB requires either an early Demo Run or the single Datasucker in my opening hand. I usually mulligan for the Datasucker or at least a turn 1 Quality Time. It is a tough match up, but it can be won.

AnSteWe wrote:
Darwin is your AI breaker of choice [...] Wildside is the best draw card in the game...


Darwin is too slow here, compared to Knight, and Wyldside is pretty bad in any deck, in my opinion. In this particular case, Wyldside is complicated because I'll be poor most of the time, so being forced to draw cards that I might not have money to play is a waste.

Quote:
I'm surprised DLR is worth the clicks to use it here, it seems like you'd be better off making medium runs.


They fill different roles in this deck. Medium is used to force the Corp to protect the R&D more intensively. Data Leak is used to force the Corp to protect the Archives.

The idea is that, the more server the Corp has to protect, the less ICEs they'll have to protect each server, which makes Parasite stronger.

tranenturm wrote:
I'm noticing no imp in your list. Did the Demo Runs make it superfluous?


There's no room for both Imp and Demo Run, and Demo Run is faster as it trashes more cards at once. In this particular deck, I like Demo Run better. I'd use Imp if my ID were Noise.
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Jeff Kayati
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Playing tag me with Armitage seems to be an odd choice. With the number of viruses you've got, why not consider running Cyberfeeder instead?
 
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Andrew
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If you are clicking for credits then your economy is bad. You could have a much faster deck if you had more money and less tricks.

At least add armatige and/or dirty laundry? Dirty laundry+data suckers is already enough pressure to ensure they ice archives.
 
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j n
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AnSteWe wrote:
If you are clicking for credits then your economy is bad. You could have a much faster deck if you had more money and less tricks.

At least add armatige and/or dirty laundry? Dirty laundry+data suckers is already enough pressure to ensure they ice archives.


He already has armitage, and this deck is plenty fast (in the NBN matchup).

I tested against this deck (I did swap in Overminds for Yog/Mimic) with my NBN several times this morning and NBN didn't manage to win once. Admittedly I'm still learning the matchup, but the deck has my respect.

We're going to test it against a wider array of decks later, and report back.

Fjord wrote:
I'm fine with no Sure Gamble, there are many viable economies. But Lucky Find and Easy Mark are so similar that it's a difficult argument to make that Sure Gamble does not also belong in any deck using them. Basically Sure Gamble is a good card and in some decks, like with Prepaid Voice Pad or a tag-me no resource economy, it's so good that you want the 4th, 5th and 6th copies in the form of Lucky Find.


I really recommend playing with this deck. It really doesn't want Sure Gamble.
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João Almeida
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jkayati wrote:
Playing tag me with Armitage seems to be an odd choice.


With Joshua B., I can play Armitage can click it 4 times before the Corp has a chance to trash it. Usually, it is not worth it to trash an Armitage when it has only 4 credits left on it.

Quote:
With the number of viruses you've got, why not consider running Cyberfeeder instead?


I tested both Cyberfeeder and Sahasrara, none of them worked as they should. Eight viruses is not enough to justify Cyberfeeder, in my opinion.

AnSteWe wrote:
Dirty laundry+data suckers is already enough pressure to ensure they ice archives.


Dirty Laundry has the same flaw that Account Siphon has, it doesn't work when I need money the most. I used to run 2x Dirty Laundry, then reduced to one copy, and currently, I believe Easy Mark does a better job in this deck.

lactamaeon wrote:
We're going to test it against a wider array of decks later, and report back.


I'll be glad to hear your feedback.
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I'd love to hear more on your reasoning for Whizzard against NBN. NBN and anarch have long been my two favorite factions, and in most of the NBN decks i play, barring Never Advance, the only trashable things you're likely to see are Sansan and Jackson; I feel like I'd almost always be more afraid of Noise or Reina with an imp, though i fully understand that you're using demo run over imp and think that's a really cool choice.

I understand and love the economy choices. Sure Gamble has no place here, Easy Mark/Lucky Find is interesting and totally makes sense in this deck. I know both these cards have their issues, but do you think Stimhack or Queen's Gambit could have a place in here? Stimhack, i fully realize doesn't combo SUPER well with knight, but it can pump Overmind and Corroder, and help pay to trash an asset or steal an NAPD.

Anyway, i'm very excited to build and test a variety of this deck. Thank you!
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Kevin D.
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Hraklea wrote:


I tested both Cyberfeeder and Sahasrara, none of them worked as they should. Eight viruses is not enough to justify Cyberfeeder, in my opinion.



You know Cyberfeeder can be used to pay for using icebreakers too right? It makes Knight a little more bearable in the early game.
 
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Andrew Keddie
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Maghd wrote:
Hraklea wrote:


I tested both Cyberfeeder and Sahasrara, none of them worked as they should. Eight viruses is not enough to justify Cyberfeeder, in my opinion.



You know Cyberfeeder can be used to pay for using icebreakers too right? It makes Knight a little more bearable in the early game.


The tempo hit of installing a Cyberfeeder can be pretty bad though. Pure credit-cost, you need to use the recurring credit three times before you see profit; if you take into account the click-cost to draw and install that number only increases. That kind of slow-down can hurt you against a super-fast deck like Astrobiotics.
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Justin Dugger

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RedSkySprawl wrote:
I'd love to hear more on your reasoning for Whizzard against NBN. NBN and anarch have long been my two favorite factions, and in most of the NBN decks i play, barring Never Advance, the only trashable things you're likely to see are Sansan and Jackson; I feel like I'd almost always be more afraid of Noise or Reina with an imp, though i fully understand that you're using demo run over imp and think that's a really cool choice.


RedSkySprawl wrote:
I'd love to hear more on your reasoning for Whizzard against NBN. NBN and anarch have long been my two favorite factions, and in most of the NBN decks i play, barring Never Advance, the only trashable things you're likely to see are Sansan and Jackson; I feel like I'd almost always be more afraid of Noise or Reina with an imp, though i fully understand that you're using demo run over imp and think that's a really cool choice.


Those are the only trashable things, but they're critical pieces of Astrobiotics's plan to draw agendas and fast advance them from hand. So the early uses of these cards is to double as econ drain. If NBN's turn one is ice, ice, install SanSan in remote server, that's a five credit swing. NAPD and Jackson have similar econ drain principles. The basic strategy is to develop your hand and defenses while baiting your opponent into expensive runs on remotes that prevent them from building their own board position.

Most runners can't keep up with that economically; corp spends a draw and a click installing Jackson/SanSan/Astroscript, and the runner has to spend a click for the run, two clicks gaining the credits required. If there's any ice to be dealt with, that's another click. Your whole turn spent dealing with one threat while your opponent just drew two more.

Whizzard's ability negates most of the the benefit of playing these cards as bait, and saves you 1-2 clicks in the above calculus. At which point you're able to install medium/nerve agent and make a central run once in a while.
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Anthony Giovannetti
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CommissarFeesh wrote:


SURE GAMBLE IS NOT RIGHT FOR EVERY DECK.


Just right for the competitive ones.
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