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Subject: How well would proxying this with Descent minis work? rss

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Rafal Areinu
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I like to use minis. It's hard to judge from printed version photos how big the spaces are. Seem as if the squares on floor tiles are more or less the same size as Descent ones. Would descent 1st/2nd edition minis fit on those tiles?

Would door from descent be around the correct size(would save me a bit handiwork)?

I'm pretty sure that if tiles are right size I could easily find good hero minis to use. It seems almost all monsters in this game are 1x1 space big. I have everything from Descent, and I'm pretty confident I would have enough goblins and other common monsters. Some of them could be hard to proxy(I see elementals of every type, while I could use fire imps for fire elemental I'm not sure I could easily replace all of them).

From the descriptions I read around it seems there is also bestiary in the rulebook. Would I find more monsters that I could proxy in there?

I will probably buy this game whenever I will be able to proxy or not, but I would like to go with correct mindset, so I wouldn't feel letdown just because my minis would be not useful.
 
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joel siragher
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Rafal! Hi! good to see you here.

I feel quite the same. I like using mini's also. I have had Steve Jackson's paper mini's and used them for Melee, and Wizard, and In The labyrinth, and found them perfect, because the cardboard mini's are painted.

Then I got a paying job and bought lots of mini's but don't have the time to paint them.

From my recollection the squares are one inch. If you look in the file section, I did a story re-write and conversion of descent2 first blood.

I checked the beastiary for you and some monsters are 1 inch square, some are 2 square and it even looks like some are rectangular.

you can save some money on printing using the figures. I keep meaning to write a spread sheet program for the encounter tables.
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Rafal Areinu
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So it seems those will be perfect fit, since squares in Descent are also around 1 inch apparently. That's great to hear

I plan to buy the game around the time I get some free time to get to printing point where I will be able to print with quality paper and quality printer. It seems I will mostly need the tiles, which is great news.
 
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joel siragher
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So this is what I do to print the tiles.

I use the inside of the box, or I buy grey chip box at the office supply store, or craft store. They call it chip board. I also save cereal boxes.


I buy laser printer labels, full 8x11 sized label with 2 half page labels on it. Something like this. You can even use these with inkjet.

http://www.amazon.com/Sheet-Shipping-Labels-Laser-Inkjet/dp/...

Then I apply the label to the cardboard and trim.

voila. The only problem with laser toner is that its polymerized wax and if you bend it, then you have white creases in the toner ink.

If you use inkjet, then I think there is something you can spray over it to preserve it from wearing out or getting wet. Inkjet ink is notorius for bleeding when wet.
 
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Rafal Areinu
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I have purchased the game and I'm still reading the rules. They are a bit too lax for my liking. For example in one part the book says "A Hero can always Move, and then perform an Action, or do it the other way around.", which implies that Move is something completely different from an Action. And later Move is few times counted as an Action. But the "what is an Action" table doesn't include Move as an Action, which means that it probably is not.

It also seems like this game is really no fun for Dungeon Lord. Complete opposite of fun, actually. Since the game is designed that campaign advances only with hero victory and game is over if Dungeon Lord wins there are a lot of rules that make it hard to kill heroes. And even then probably only one or two will die. Even if overlord kills all heroes he didn't really win, he just made everyone(including himself) lose. And there isn't much he can do on his turn, there are even many turns when he gets NOTHING to do at all.

If not for the fact that there has to be someone knowing where traps are and knowing secret things in campain book... Well, dungeon lord wouldn't be needed.

But I'm just nitpicking. I got this game for random dungeon mode, which pretty much can be played without dungeon lord. But I would like some rules for monster movement. "Be fair" is not much of a rule

I was also surprised to find out that many of the monsters mentioned in the rulebook don't appear in the campaign nor random dungeons. I haven't read all abilities or spells so they might appear as summons or something. But for most of them I don't think so as there are no stands for them in Game Content. Though Ratmen and Giant Rats appear in the campaign, and they don't have stands as well.

I figured out how to proxy most of the monsters with my descent stuff. I don't know how to proxy Elementals and siege machines, but they don't seem to appear in random dungeons anyway.

If someone is interested in my proxy choices:

Greens:
Orc 8(minion Kobold? There are orc heroes, but no orc enemies? Racism!)
Goblin 7(Goblin Archers)
Hulk 5(Ferrox)

Goblin Shaman 2(Goblin Shaman)
Orc Shaman 2(master Kobold?)

Undead:
Skeleton 5(Skeleton Archer)
Zombie 4(Zombie)
Mummy 3(Shade? Not a mummy, but kind of similar, and still undead)

Menkind:
Infernal Warrior 3(Bandit? Beastman? Hero minis that look evil?)
Infernal Sorcerer 3(Sorcerer)

Ogres(2x2) 3(Ogre)
Giant(2x2) 1(Giant)

Demonkind:
Imps 5(Fire Imp)
Demon 5(Volucrix Reaver? looks demonic enough I guess...)
Arch Demon 2(Hybrid Sentinel)
 
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joel siragher
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Nah. this is GREAT for the dungeon lord!

IVe run it quite a bit. Its a scream.
 
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alex bermudez
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Can you point out where the rules say that Move is an Action? It shouldn't be listed as a standard Action, and if it is, I need to change that.

One of the downfalls of print-and-play games is the cost of printing, and as there's already a couple hundred pages to print out, I didn't want to include absolutely all of the Monsters in the Bestiary for print, so I stuck, mainly, with the "core" group of Monsters. The rest I expect people to proxy in as much as they want.

Speaking of Proxies and Elementals, honestly just proxy in whatever you want, and say that thing has fire/water/air/earth powers. Goblin Shaman that can turn into a pillar of flame? Fine. Orc that can turn into water? Why not? As long as it's fast and fun, don't worry too much about what the Adventure Book says. Make it fit to what you have.

Also, monster base sizes very rarely play into actual gameplay positions, so if you want to have 1x1 Giants or 2x1 Hulks, go for it. Homerule it up as you like; as long as everyone's having fun, you don't gotta stick to the rules so hard. Rules are a guideline, fun is the goal.

As far as Monster movement and the "be fair" clause, it's just said because, honestly if you're playing on your own, you don't even need to roll dice, you know? Your mom ain't gonna bust in your room and be like "YOUS'E CHEATIN' AT DUNGEON CRAWLS!" It just means to move the Monster in the manner that the Dungeon Lord would if he were playing. Not only just moving towards the closest target that can be put within attacking range, but also things like attacking the guy with the lowest health, defense, etc. You know, don't make it a cakewalk for yourself; it's not gratifying.

However, I really do like incorporating good player ideas into the game if I feel they make sense. If you have any good solutions to Monster movement, I'd love to hear them and incorporate, if I find them to my liking. I don't pretend to have all the answers!

As far as the whole Dungeon Lord funtime thing goes, yes, the Dungeon Lord is really there more as a Dungeon Master, kinda being the rules arbitrator for most of the game. The Adventure Book does favor the Heroes a lot. At the core of the game, I do want it to be about the Heroes. It's mostly how I grew up on games like these. But, the Dungeon Lord does have the tools to really screw the Heroes, with the Dungeon Lord cards. Saving up Anger to summon up a Hulk in the worst possible times have brought many great experiences to our tabletop. If you want the Dungeon Lord to have a lot more fun, try using long corridors in custom maps. Making the Heroes walk more basically just builds up more Anger, and with that you can throw them some big curve balls, all the time. But, like I said before, if you've got some good ideas, let me know!
 
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Andreas W.
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Areinu wrote:
I figured out how to proxy most of the monsters with my descent stuff. I don't know how to proxy Elementals and siege machines, but they don't seem to appear in random dungeons anyway.

If someone is interested in my proxy choices:

Nice list, thanks for sharing.

I am currently gathering a list of proxies too, not limiting to Descent though as I was looking into other games (mainly Dungeon Saga right now) or general minis (Reapers come to mind) too.

Here is what I have gathered so far from a Descent wiki:

The Green
Orcs: ?
Goblins: Base Game (5 Archers)
Hulks: Shadow of Nerekhall (2 Ynfernael Hulks)
Shaman: Labyrinth of Ruin (4 Goblin Witchers)
The Undead
Skeletons: Mists of Bilehall (6 Reanimates), Treaty of Champions (Skeleton Archers)
Zombies: Base Game (5 Zombies)
Mummies: Mists of Bilehall (3 Broodwalkers)
Menkind
Infernals: Crusade of the Forgotten (Sorcerers), Guardians of Deephall (Dark Priests)
Ogres: Visions of Dawn (Ogres)
Giants: Crown of Destiny (Giants)
Demonkind
Imps: Lair of the Wyrm (5 Fire Imps)
Demons: Treaty of Champions (Demon Lord)
Arch Demons: Treaty of Champions (Demon Lord)
Elementals
Fire Elementals: Base Game (2 Elementals)
Earth Elementals: Base Game (2 Elementals)
Wind Elementals: Base Game (2 Elementals)
Water Elementals: Base Game (2 Elementals)
Dragons
Hatchling Dragon: ?
Young Dragon: ?
Adult Dragon: Base Game (2 Shadow Dragons), Guardians of Deephall (Crypt Dragons)
Old Dragon: Base Game (2 Shadow Dragons), Guardians of Deephall (Crypt Dragons)
Ancient Dragon: Base Game (2 Shadow Dragons), Guardians of Deephall (Crypt Dragons)
Primordial Dragon: Base Game (2 Shadow Dragons), Guardians of Deephall (Crypt Dragons)
Others
Beastmen: Oath of the Outcast (Beastmen)
Gnomes: ?
Hobgoblins: ?
Half-Orc: ?
Lizardmen: ?
Minotaurs: Shards of Everdark (Dark Minotaur)
Ratmen: ?
Treemen: ?
Troglodytes: ?
Trolls: Visions of Dawn (Trolls)
Slimes: ?
Gelatinous Cubes: ?
Basilisks: ?
Giant Bats: ?
Bears: ?
Swamp Monsters: ?
Chimeras: ?
War Dogs: ?
Doppelgangers: ?
Giant Eagles: ?
Molds: ?
Griffons: ?
Harpies: The Trollfens (4 Harpies)
Manticores: Visions of Dawn (Manticores)
Hippogriffs: ?
Hydras: ?
Jabberwoks: ?
Giant Leeches: ?
Giant Rats: Shadow of Nerekhall (4 Rat Swarms)
Giant Scorpions: ?
Giant Snakes: ?
Giant Spiders: Base Game (5 Cave Spiders), Labyrinth of Ruin (2 Arachyura), Oath of the Outcast (Bane Spiders)
Werewolves: ?
Wolves: ?
Wyvern: ?
Lichs: ?
Vampires: ?
Ghosts: ?
Wraiths: Manor of Ravens (3 Wraiths)

Lots of creatures missing, I am especially sad there are no Orcs available as Monsters in Descent so far. Also I didn't look into Lieutnants yet, just Valyndra comes to mind. ^^
 
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Andreas W.
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I just went through the Dungeon Event List gathering the amount of monsters for each Kind that could be spawned:

Standard Dungeon
2 Mummies
3 Zombies
4 Skeletons
3 Hulks
4 Orcs
3 Goblins

The Depths
2 Demons
4 Zombies
4 Warriors
2 Ogres
1 Giant
4 Hulks
3 Mummies
8 Orcs

The Crypt
4 Mummies
3 Zombies
5 Skeletons

Ancient Burial Grounds
6 Mummies
5 Zombies

Green Colony
5 Hulks
4 Orcs
3 Orc Shamen
6 Goblins

Infernal Dungeon
2 Devils
3 Demons
3 Mages
6 Warriors
4 Imps
2 Arch Demons

In addition to that I also found the Overnight Event "Attacked!" which will make you fight 2 to 12 Orcs.

Taken all together the following list seems to hit the sweet spot regarding monster numbers:

6 Mummies
5 Zombies
5 Skeletons
5 Hulks
8/12* Orcs (*Overnight Event)
3 Orc Shamen
6 Goblins
3 Demons
2 Arch Demons
6 Warriors
3 Mages
2 Ogres
1 Giant
2 Devils
4 Imps

So when it comes to proxying the monsters you could consider the above numbers.
 
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