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Subject: A Mythical Mistake and Revised Rules rss

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David Hernandez
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In Board Game Breakfast on the Dice Tower Video Network Tom talks about Myth. BGG won't let me post a direct link outside the video area but you can find the video as Ep. 28 - A Mythical Mistake. Forward to the 22:55 mark.

The gist of his apology is this:

Tom broke one of his cardinal rules as a reviewer and reviewed the game based on a gameplay session with the designer because the rulebook was too "dense" to go through. Tom acknowledges that later he read the rulebook and indeed it was a mess. However, Tom still stands by his positive review sans the rule book.

So I have a few questions for those that own Myth.

1) Is there any place where one can find revised rules?
2) Have revised rules changed your judgement on the game?
3) Would you still recommend Myth as a game?
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Michael Rickman
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1. Megacongames is in the process of reworking the rule book. You can download an official FAQ over on their site.

2. The FAQ and countless videos coming both from fellow BGG users and the designers themselves have been quite helpful. Always enjoyed the game.

3. If you are willing to put in the work to learn it, yes.
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Joe Reil
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fusionkast wrote:
1) Is there any place where one can find revised rules?
2) Have revised rules changed your judgement on the game?
3) Would you still recommend Myth as a game?


In order:

1: A fully-revised rulebook is not yet available. However, there are some supporting documents available as PDFs on their home page to help. There are also some official game-play videos as well (which I have not watched).

2: Not really. I was somewhere around the middle of the initial U.S. shipping queue, so I was well aware of the issues before I even received my copy. Being forewarned, I went through the rules and supporting documents ahead of time and got the game down well enough to teach and play it with some friends and we all enjoyed it.

3: I would recommend anyone who likes this style of game at least give it a try. It's a fun system with some neat elements to it. I haven't played it much yet, but I've enjoyed the time I've spent with it so far.
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tim thorson
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I missed th KS and got it at retail. I heard about the mess withy the rules. Before cracking it open, I watched videos and read. And honestly, it isn't that bad. The game is actually a ton of fun. The first game or two you may have a question or two, but this isn't the first game where I needed to open the rulebook during play.
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fusionkast wrote:
In Board Game Breakfast on the Dice Tower Video Network Tom talks about Myth. BGG won't let me post a direct link outside the video area but you can find the video as Ep. 28 - A Mythical Mistake. Forward to the 22:55 mark.

The gist of his apology is this:

Tom broke one of his cardinal rules as a reviewer and reviewed the game based on a gameplay session with the designer because the rulebook was too "dense" to go through. Tom acknowledges that later he read the rulebook and indeed it was a mess. However, Tom still stands by his positive review sans the rule book.

So I have a few questions for those that own Myth.

1) Is there any place where one can find revised rules?
2) Have revised rules changed your judgement on the game?
3) Would you still recommend Myth as a game?


1) mythboardgame.com has a FAQ now, and will very likely be the place to find revised rules when they're released.

2) Nope. Still enjoy it. It gets asked for each gaming weekend with my group. Introduced a few more people to it (6 adults) at a local gaming meetup in May and they claimed to have fun, as well.

3) I would recommend this game to someone that likes fantasy and tactical miniatures combat. My gaming buddies tell me it feels like a cross between d&d and gauntlet, which I suppose is a compliment. With CSI selling at less than $60 right now, it's basically the cost of a dinner out to give it a try.

Cheers!
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Billy Crawford - Greybeard
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Honestly, I think with the new rules rewrites and the use of videos available, this could easily be a classic.

I enjoy it through and through, but yes, it did take some effort on my part to make sure I understood how to play.
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MM
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I have watched these and plan on introducing my wife to Myth leveraging these videos. I think they are top notch.

Start with the setup video (linked below), and then watch the Realm video and then the gameplay vids (1-3).



Brian mentioned in one of his recent posts here on BGG that they are going to post the new rulebook soon for feedback.

As for Tom, and his apology. This went a long way in my book towards clearing up some of the mystery surrounding his Myth review. I can imagine how exciting it was to have the McG guys come and teach his gang the game. I can also see how one could miss the rulebook condition when it was used as a reference instead of a teaching aide. Tom, as someone that was turned off by what happened, I want to say thank you for your words on the video. I will once again look to Dice Tower for opinions.

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Duncan Idaho
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fusionkast wrote:

1) Is there any place where one can find revised rules?
2) Have revised rules changed your judgement on the game?
3) Would you still recommend Myth as a game?


1 has been answered.

2) Nope. The materials (specifically the cards) actively try to make it harder to play the game, even with the additional documents. The game is very "same"-y once you get into it. The whole time, I would rather have been playing a traditional RPG, as it would have been less work and more fun.

3) Not at all. Even putting the terrible editing, poor materials, and God-awful communication aside, the game itself is a few brilliant ideas executed in a banal manner. I hesitate to even call it a game - it's more a framework that they then half-assed some RPG elements over. In an attempt to make an AI, they instead made something that feels like you're playing an RPG written my the least imaginative DM ever.
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MM
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fusionkast wrote:
3) Would you still recommend Myth as a game?


I'd say watch the videos and try and make an informed decision. You are poking a hornet's nest asking this question here and will likely get very passionate and emotional responses from both sides of the aisle.

You hear Tom say he recommends this game even after all the drama - this would have been the perfect time (and only) to rescind his recommendation of Myth but he didn't.

Regardless, no one here can really recommend the game one way or another without knowing you personally. If you really want to know if this game is for you, check out the videos I linked and you'll get a pretty decent understanding of what you're in for with Myth.
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Mistermannindy wrote:

Regardless, no one here can really recommend the game one way or another without knowing you personally. If you really want to know if this game is for you, check out the videos I linked and you'll get a pretty decent understanding of what you're in for with Myth.


My strong recommendation is threefold:
1) Read Mathue's review for a realistically positive take - http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1153672/a-positively-realist...

2) Watch Rahdo's review for a realistically negative take - http://boardgamegeek.com/video/45905/myth/rahdo-runs-through... (if not the whole thing, then just the final thoughts)

3) Check out how much you'll be paying for the "entire" package - the extra figures/quests/etc... to make the game feel complete for you - this will be a bit different for everyone. However, the base game doesn't feel very complete, for a number of reasons (which you can read/hear in the reviews listed)

Then, you can make your decision.

If you're waffling and want a reason NOT to buy it, read JimBob's review - http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1169921/myth-where-freeform-...

While over-the-top and angry, his criticisms are all valid. Blown out of proportion? Maybe - that's a matter of opinion. But he hits everything that's liable to piss you off as a customer/consumer.
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fusionkast wrote:
Tom acknowledges that later he read the rulebook and indeed it was a mess. However, Tom still stands by his positive review sans the rule book.


Did he talk at all about the frequency of play after that session, either in the original review or this update? If his only experience was the one with the designer, I would say that would definitely color his review in a positive direction - even Phantom Menace is probably enjoyable with George Lucas in the room. If, however, he's played a ton since then, that would cut the other way.
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Nick Bolton
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Idaho11 wrote:
even Phantom Menace is probably enjoyable with George Lucas in the room.


There are those Jar Jar moments that just can't be explained away.
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Rob Davis
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Idaho11 wrote:
even Phantom Menace is probably enjoyable with George Lucas in the room. If, however, he's played a ton since then, that would cut the other way.

Totally false. I'd be too busy strangling Lucas to even watch the movie.
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Michael Cozzolino
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I read through the rule book front to back when they sent it out the backers. Its not half as bad as everyone makes it out to be. If you are trying to play it without reading and only reference the rules then you will have issues.
I also see a lot of "Cards contradict the rules" complaints. Thats the point of the cards. I could go through every game i have and it does this. Do the rules really need to say 'Cards supersede rules'?
I have less issues with the rules and the enemies, and more with waste of time the traps create, but as I only plan to have fun when playing i just skip them and have fun. I understand what they want to do with traps, it just doesnt really work.
The deck combat makes the game unique enough to own and i think with expansions the AI will change enough to make it more variable.
 
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Mathue Faulkner
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Idaho11 wrote:

My strong recommendation is threefold:
1) Read Mathue's review for a realistically positive take - http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1153672/a-positively-realist...

I've been working on a lot of other projects, and I'd rather put my time and energy into those projects (many Myth related actually), but I should update my review at some point. After 4-5 more sessions, I have some slightly different opinions on things. I have a few more criticisms, but I've also softened my view on a couple small areas as well. It is reaching the point, however, where I have to remember to separate out the different tweaks that I've made to the game when writing a fair evaluation...
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Donny Behne
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Idaho11 wrote:
fusionkast wrote:
Tom acknowledges that later he read the rulebook and indeed it was a mess. However, Tom still stands by his positive review sans the rule book.


Did he talk at all about the frequency of play after that session, either in the original review or this update?


He said he played several times after the instructional playthrough.
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David Hernandez
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Definitely a lot of good information posted already. I'll be checking out the videos and links posted once I have some time later.

Mistermannindy wrote:
You are poking a hornet's nest asking this question here and will likely get very passionate and emotional responses from both sides of the aisle.


Knowing the history behind Myth, you could say I wanted to hear straight from the hornet's nest. meeple
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Michelle
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I'm not recommending to my friends that they buy the game. Come over to my place and play it with me, sure. A friend and I have gone through much of the suffering of sorting through the rules, and we can teach new players fairly easily now. And eventually I'll have the second wave of kickstarter goodies for them to enjoy.

But this current printing was basically a public beta test that exposed a ton of flaws. The game itself is fun, but I would recommend that new retail buyers wait for the revised printing, for sure. There are a zillion other polished games you can play in the meantime, and then you can buy Myth once it's had its kinks sorted out.

Since you seem fairly new to Myth, I want to make it clear that it's not just the rulebook but also the game cards that are getting a complete overhaul. The "revised" edition (although they may not give it a special name) will be very different from the version available now. You'll save yourself a huge amount of hassle if you just wait.

Unless you specifically enjoy being an early adopter/public beta tester and upgrading your components at a later date, I strongly recommend waiting for the improved printing.
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vazzucious wrote:
Its not half as bad as everyone makes it out to be. If you are trying to play it without reading and only reference the rules then you will have issues.


Yep - it's worse. Your second sentence seems to argue that it is pretty bad.

As far as the cards go, there's a difference between "cards supersede rules" and "cards don't make sense in the context of the rules" which happens quite a few times.

I do agree that the deck combat makes the game unique; I don't think it's good enough to warrant purchasing this game, especially at the price you'd have to pay to get all the elements necessary for enough variety to make it last. Hopefully, a similar system is released in a better game.
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I think the poorly written rulebook is being blown way out of proportion. When I got my copy I never got wind of the rulebook being bad, so I spent 2 nights learning and never looked on the internet till after my first few game sessions for some very minor confusions.

But now there is a full blown FAQ on megacon games website and it should answer pretty much any holes.

The bottom line is, I dont think it was that confusing, and its one of my favorite games that ive played yet, and cant wait for more stuff from them!
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I think it is important to note that the issues are not only with the rulebook (although it seems to be the worst offender). Vague text on cards, traps, lack of minis and the very free form* nature of the game are all things that one might consider.

I guess Rhado's review is spot on.

I also think that the publisher is providing good support and a lot of fans of the game here on BGG are also very helpful so learning the game might be a no-issue if you are willing to invest a little of time.


*free form defined as "bad RPG rules" and "inovative gameplay", depending on who you are listening to.
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