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Subject: Unintended consequences rss

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Bowe Bergdahl ~

I suspect Obama has screwed the pooch here. It's no secret that this Bowe guy was a deserter and people here and elsewhere who are pissing and moaning about "He's an American!" are simply ignoring the information that has been available for several years now. Yes, he's American. That means we should allow Obama to drone strike him like the Prez has done to a number of other Americans. Right? Or maybe, to make Obama's Taliban supporters happy, make him a hero and give them back some of their people.

But was it wise to trade 5 known terrorists for an American who clearly and unequivocally walked away from America to be a part of another group? So far I haven't read anything that justifies this and it's clearly going to be one of the defining events in the Obama Legacy.

Obama won't be impeached. He should. But he won't. The reason he won't is pretty easy to understand - he's half black. Congress wouldn't impeach this guy if he was caught getting his Roscoe buffed by all of the interns in the White House, male and female. His racial make-up is invulnerable. On the other hand, he and his 8 years in office are going to go down in flames. The reality on the ground, in America, is not even close to the media narratives. 1/3 of prime working age Americans live with mom and dad.... 1/3. 25% of us are on food stamps. The economy is actually contracting or static in enough quarters to frighten even the most optimistic of us. Obama is handing over high level terrorists in exchange for a kid who dislikes America and joined the terrorists willingly. He's sticking coal and coal states in the eye and then admonishing them by telling the media "It's for the children".

The dude never shut Gitmo... which he was gonna do the first 30 days in office. That's not going to go away. Nor is Fast & Furious or the IRS scandal, the VA scandal, Benghazi or any of the dozen or so other incompetent, buffoonish and destructive boondoggles and scandals that are the hallmark of Barry Obama as the CEO of America.

I think the unintended consequences of 8 years of this guy, 8 years of erosion in jobs, economic growth, international diplomacy, and Bowe Bergdahl moments is going to turn America to the right. Maybe not the hard right... so all you Jesus-haters can breath easy, there probably won't be federally mandated bible study... but perhaps a little harder right than most of you RSP mooks will be able to stand without your heads blowing up.

We'll see. But my opinion is that the unintended consequence of twice electing an inexperienced, selfish, arrogant and incompetent man to the presidency for the simple reason that it was time to have a black president... all that shit, 8 years of it by 2016, will be a miracle fertilizer for the growth of a new conservative movement and a decade or more of trending away from liberal/progressive ideology.

Thanks Obama.
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Boaty McBoatface
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How is not doing something an Unintended consequences?
 
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My country has done deals for release of prisoners multiple times. The deals are always bad. Letting the people rot is also bad. It's a lose-lose situation. The deal to free Gilad Shalit is an example. Basically as I understand the reason the latter was agreed to was because the military did not come up with a plan for a rescue operation without an unacceptable probability that Shalit would get killed.
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jeremy cobert
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It's just another example of amateur hour at the white house. You never negotiate with a terrorist unless you want more terrorism.
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DWTripp wrote:
Thanks Obama.

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Meh, microchip these guys and let them loose into the wild, and see where they lead us. Rotting in a cell indefinitely will garner us nothing but political fallout.

We get the return of a US Soldier. I am happy with the deal.
 
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jeremycobert wrote:
It's just another example of amateur hour at the white house. You never negotiate with a terrorist unless you want more terrorism.
You mean like Reagan? Carter? Clinton? Bush? In fact most of your (all?) recent presidents have in one way or another negotiated with terrorists, and in some cases even supplied them with arms.
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MWChapel wrote:
Meh, microchip these guys and let them loose into the wild, and see where they lead us. Rotting in a cell indefinitely will garner us nothing but political fallout.

We get the return of a US Soldier. I am happy with the deal.


That's fine Mike, but the thread is about the unintended consequences of trading a deserter for 5 high level terrorists. I went on to explain how (in my view) the incompetence of Obama, as demonstrated by this deal and some of the other messes, may well have the unintended consequence of turning America pretty far to the conservative right.

Got any comment on that? I mean even a mumbled "Bush did dumb stuff" would be partially on topic.
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DWTripp wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
Meh, microchip these guys and let them loose into the wild, and see where they lead us. Rotting in a cell indefinitely will garner us nothing but political fallout.

We get the return of a US Soldier. I am happy with the deal.


That's fine Mike, but the thread is about the unintended consequences of trading a deserter for 5 high level terrorists. I went on to explain how (in my view) the incompetence of Obama, as demonstrated by this deal and some of the other messes, may well have the unintended consequence of turning America pretty far to the conservative right.

Got any comment on that? I mean even a mumbled "Bush did dumb stuff" would be partially on topic.
As it had only just been done it's hard to know what Unintended consequences there may be, but so far none.

But until the Sargent (promoted twice by people you claim think he's a deserter, odd that) has been tried and convicted he is innocent (that is how the legal system works) and has to be treated as no different from any other American.
 
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I still would like to know how these guys warrant the term 'high level terrorists' They held positions of leadership in a Nation. An dnemy nation to be sure, but still a nation.

Add that to the fact they're all a decade out of date, how does 'high level' still even remotely apply? We can discuss how Obama is the cause of AIDS after that.
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DWTripp wrote:

That's fine Mike, but the thread is about the unintended consequences of trading a deserter for 5 high level terrorists.


I guess it is subjective. Most people I've talked to thought this was a pretty good trade. Most people you talk to says it was a sour deal.

Do you think your people will out weigh my people in 2016? I guess we'll see.

I know you think you can say this plan and that plan is dumb or is "detrimental" in some grand level of scale, but of course that is subjectively in your opinion. And your badge states "I'm right and you're wrong"...I get that you believe that too.

I just don't see the political fallout the conservative base is pandering as a big deal.

You see a growing conservative movement, and I see a decaying and dying party.

Remember, no one was as surprised that Mitt Romney lost in 2012 than Mitt Romney. He actually believed the opinions that the pundants were feeding him. He really thought he had the election...in the bag. Sounds like the same opinions you think everyone is believing today.

All I can say is, good luck in 2016.
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MWChapel wrote:
DWTripp wrote:

That's fine Mike, but the thread is about the unintended consequences of trading a deserter for 5 high level terrorists.


I guess it is subjective. Most people I've talked to thought this was a pretty good trade. Most people you talk to says it was a sour deal.

Do you think your people will out weigh my people in 2016? I guess we'll see.

I know you think you can say this plan and that plan is dumb or is "detrimental" in some grand level of scale, but of course that is subjectively in your opinion. And your badge states "I'm right and you're wrong"...I get that you believe that too.

I just don't see the political fallout the conservative base is pandering as a big deal.

You see a growing conservative movement, and I see a decaying and dying party.

Remember, no one was as surprised that Mitt Romney lost in 2012 than Mitt Romney. He actually believed the opinions that the pundants were feeding him. He really thought he had the election...in the bag. Sounds like the same opinions you think everyone is believing today.

All I can say is, good luck in 2016.
2016, when Obama will be standing for his third term? I really I going to love the "Thanks Obama" campaigning against someone...who is not Obama.
 
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I don't see a shift to the right happening until the right starts putting forth actual political candidates that are less goofy then Obama. So far that hasn't happened.
 
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slatersteven wrote:
As it had only just been done it's hard to know what Unintended consequences there may be, but so far none.

But until the Sargent (promoted twice by people you claim think he's a deserter, odd that) has been tried and convicted he is innocent (that is how the legal system works) and has to be treated as no different from any other American.


Thanks Slater, for that insightful and near-unreadable batch of misspelled words.

Factually, the people who promoted him are not the people who say he deserted. The US Military is really big. This guy has been a political pawn for years and the information on his escape from a secure compound, his actions and words prior to deserting, etc., have been available for years now. I have no opinion of this yokel myself. I know the area he's from and since he's local in the sense of "from Idaho" there have been a number of local pieces done about him. I think it's fine he is back, for now. I think it's beyond stupid for Obama to have gotten him back the way he did.

And that's why I believe the unintended consequences will be more acceptable to people of my political bent that of the RSP Hive Mind bent. I don't care one whit what a foreigner like you thinks, but I do wish you'd take the time to spell properly.
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DWTripp wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
As it had only just been done it's hard to know what Unintended consequences there may be, but so far none.

But until the Sargent (promoted twice by people you claim think he's a deserter, odd that) has been tried and convicted he is innocent (that is how the legal system works) and has to be treated as no different from any other American.


Thanks Slater, for that insightful and near-unreadable batch of misspelled words.

Factually, the people who promoted him are not the people who say he deserted. The US Military is really big. This guy has been a political pawn for years and the information on his escape from a secure compound, his actions and words prior to deserting, etc., have been available for years now. I have no opinion of this yokel myself. I know the area he's from and since he's local in the sense of "from Idaho" there have been a number of local pieces done about him. I think it's fine he is back, for now. I think it's beyond stupid for Obama to have gotten him back the way he did.

And that's why I believe the unintended consequences will be more acceptable to people of my political bent that of the RSP Hive Mind bent. I don't care one whit what a foreigner like you thinks, but I do wish you'd take the time to spell properly.
Which words do you think are spelled incorrectly?

As to the rest

Innocent until proven guilty, end of story.
 
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DWTripp wrote:
MWChapel wrote:
Meh, microchip these guys and let them loose into the wild, and see where they lead us. Rotting in a cell indefinitely will garner us nothing but political fallout.

We get the return of a US Soldier. I am happy with the deal.


That's fine Mike, but the thread is about the unintended consequences of trading a deserter for 5 high level terrorists. I went on to explain how (in my view) the incompetence of Obama, as demonstrated by this deal and some of the other messes, may well have the unintended consequence of turning America pretty far to the conservative right.

Got any comment on that? I mean even a mumbled "Bush did dumb stuff" would be partially on topic.


I say give it a bit of time. When they turn up dead in a few weeks after getting bombed by a drone in Afghanistan we can circle back around to this conversation.

On a more serious note though, I'm not convinced everyone in Guantanamo Bay are "known terrorists". Yes they were there in the terrorists camps, but that doesn't make them terrorists. They might have been visiting their brother to convince them to leave, they might have just been selling merchandise to the terrorists, etc. Give these men their day in court or let them go.

I'm also sure there are a lot more than 5 people in Guantanamo Bay would could be released safely. I'd like to think that the US govt is in far better position to determine how dangerous each of the prisoners are and that they did not release the most dangerous ones.

Let us not forget that we are still in violation of international law here and that holding all those prisoners without giving them a chance to defend themselves in a court is flat out wrong. How can we as Americans claim any moral high ground here? If we don't treat these men the same as we ask everyone else to treat US citizens/soldiers on foreign soil then why should anyone else follow the same rules?
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Since no discussion about Obama is complete without mentioning his brother from another mother, Bush, it will be interesting to see how much the Democratic candidates separate themselves from Obama like the GOP's did when his 8 years were over.
 
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These five (as far as I know unconvicted) terrorists have not been released yet, but handed over to Qatari custody for a year, and will then be released, so we have (at least) a year before we know what consequences this may have.

 
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I'm sure when Obama discovers that 5 terrorists have been swapped for a deserter (defector?), we'll hear all about how mad he is.
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I'm not willing to paint these guys in quite so rosey a picture. I am pretty sure they were all involved in some horrible things...against their own people. They should havd been tried for war crimes, crimes against humanity, whatever. That wasn't done. Instead the land of the free has been running a political detention center ala Siberia for a decade and a half(ish) and when a President did try o do sething about it congress just passed laws making it nigh impossible.

I don't see anything Obama has done as shifting people to the right. The outrage of the week just shows how little staying power the outrage has. Nothing has been bad enough to really rile people even half as kuch as Clinton getting a BJ did. I do think our standards have dropped, but I think that decline was well in place before Obama's administration and helps politicos on both sides.
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Knewt wrote:
I'm sure when Obama discovers that 5 terrorists have been swapped for a deserter (defector?), we'll hear all about how mad he is.
He can (now) at least be tried, lets see the evidence tested in a court of law.
 
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Shadrach wrote:
. Instead the land of the free has been running a political detention center ala Siberia for a decade and a half(ish)


Like Siberia? Gitmo? That is one of the most willingly obtuse and clearly partisan things you've ever posted here. Gitmo is the pleasure palace of prisons. Have you seriously never even read a single article out of the hundreds that detail the meals, the perks, the special treatment, the soccer field, the health care, etc.?

I mean I expect you to blame congress for O's failure to keep his promise, but Gitmo is leagues, miles, parsecs better than 80% of the retirement villages that millions of Americans stick granny and gramps in when they hit the Depends age.
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DWTripp wrote:
Have you seriously never even read a single article out of the hundreds that detail the meals, the perks, the special treatment, the soccer field, the health care, etc.?

Don't forget the water boarding and forced feedings. Fun times!
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DWTripp wrote:
Shadrach wrote:
. Instead the land of the free has been running a political detention center ala Siberia for a decade and a half(ish)


Like Siberia? Gitmo? That is one of the most willingly obtuse and clearly partisan things you've ever posted here. Gitmo is the pleasure palace of prisons. Have you seriously never even read a single article out of the hundreds that detail the meals, the perks, the special treatment, the soccer field, the health care, etc.?

I mean I expect you to blame congress for O's failure to keep his promise, but Gitmo is leagues, miles, parsecs better than 80% of the retirement villages that millions of Americans stick granny and gramps in when they hit the Depends age.


I knew that analogy would get picked at. I meant in the 'people go in because 'reasons' and never come out unless certain people feel like it' aspect, not the conditions.
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slatersteven wrote:
2016, when Obama will be standing for his third term? I really I going to love the "Thanks Obama" campaigning against someone...who is not Obama.


Bush wasn't running in 2008, but Obama's main point was, "I'm not Bush!" It worked for him. (Not that the fact such a tactic works is good news for US, but I wouldn't rule out getting a lot of votes by not being Obama.)
 
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