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Subject: Yet another question on enemy placement rss

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Fat Samurai
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I've been playing the first WWII mission a bunch of times to automatize the rules, and in my most recent playtrhough I ended up in this situation:

A to D are the cards on the far away right corner, B being the card on row 3, column 4.

A B

C D

B is an open field card, currently occupied by the enemy after I resolved a Potential Combat Marker on D. I have a unit on D, trading fire with B. A, B and C all have Potential Combat Markers on them.

Now I move a unit to C to lay some heavy fire on B. The Potential Combat Marker resolves, and I have to place an LMG team to forward right at max LOS. The board now looks something like his:

--->E

A B

C D

E didn't want to cooperate in its alignment. It's diagonally to the right of B, so there is line of sight C-B-E

The troops at E should fire at C, but there are troops in the way, so they don't. What's the right course of action in this case?

My interpretation is that if there are still enemies at B come the next Enemy Activity Check, troops at E melt into the brush and become a Potential Combat Marker, which becomes irrelevant. If enemy troops abandon B, the troops at E start firing on the friendly troops at E, removing the Potential Combat Marker on B.

Also, do casualties count as enemy troops? If the enemy abandons B, but leaves casualties behind, will the troops in E start shooting at C?


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Ben Hull
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FatSamurai wrote:
I've been playing the first WWII mission a bunch of times to automatize the rules, and in my most recent playtrhough I ended up in this situation:

A to D are the cards on the far away right corner, B being the card on row 3, column 4.

A B

C D

B is an open field card, currently occupied by the enemy after I resolved a Potential Combat Marker on D. I have a unit on D, trading fire with B. A, B and C all have Potential Combat Markers on them.

Now I move a unit to C to lay some heavy fire on B. The Potential Combat Marker resolves, and I have to place an LMG team to forward right at max LOS. The board now looks something like his:

--->E

A B

C D

E didn't want to cooperate in its alignment. It's diagonally to the right of B, so there is line of sight C-B-E

The troops at E should fire at C, but there are troops in the way, so they don't. What's the right course of action in this case?

My interpretation is that if there are still enemies at B come the next Enemy Activity Check, troops at E melt into the brush and become a Potential Combat Marker, which becomes irrelevant. If enemy troops abandon B, the troops at E start firing on the friendly troops at E, removing the Potential Combat Marker on B.

Also, do casualties count as enemy troops? If the enemy abandons B, but leaves casualties behind, will the troops in E start shooting at C?


the answer is not too complicated. The LMG team placement must be shooting at the card that triggered the contact. The placement in E is not eligible due to the troops in B, so you must redo the placement, the only eligible directions are left front and direct front. You can do a random selection between the two eligible directions.
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David Janik-Jones
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Up Front fan | In ancient times cats were worshipped as gods; they have not forgotten this | Combat Commander series fan | The Raven King (game publisher) ... that's me! | Fields of Fire fan
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And then you can hope that A has a line of sight through it vertically, and you "roll" front (not left front) as your placement (shown as X). As I understand it, you then would be able to remove the PC marker on A.

X

A B

C D

I also continue to play mission one (Normandy) a lot too. There's a fair amount of gaming goodness just in that one alone.
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Fat Samurai
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benhull wrote:

the answer is not too complicated. The LMG team placement must be shooting at the card that triggered the contact. The placement in E is not eligible due to the troops in B, so you must redo the placement, the only eligible directions are left front and direct front. You can do a random selection between the two eligible directions.


Thanks for the answer Ben.

Are placements always invalid if the enemy troops cannot shoot at friendlies?

What happens if I move into a card occupied by both an enemy counter and a PC Marker? How do you resolve the marker if the spawned counter cannot shoot at the card that triggered it, due to the presence of enemies?
 
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Ron Lacock
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FatSamurai wrote:


Are placements always invalid if the enemy troops cannot shoot at friendlies?



Yes

FatSamurai wrote:


What happens if I move into a card occupied by both an enemy counter and a PC Marker? How do you resolve the marker if the spawned counter cannot shoot at the card that triggered it, due to the presence of enemies?


Correct - then there is no possibility of further contact. Don't forget to raise the contact elevation. If you have that many around the odds of running into more should dwindle anyway.
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Fat Samurai
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Quote:

Correct - then there is no possibility of further contact. Don't forget to raise the contact elevation. If you have that many around the odds of running into more should dwindle anyway.


So, just remove the contact marker?
 
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Daniel Schulz
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FatSamurai wrote:
Quote:

Correct - then there is no possibility of further contact. Don't forget to raise the contact elevation. If you have that many around the odds of running into more should dwindle anyway.


So, just remove the contact marker?


If you are resolving the contact, and there is no eligible placement, it is removed.
 
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Juno
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FatSamurai wrote:

What happens if I move into a card occupied by both an enemy counter and a PC Marker? How do you resolve the marker if the spawned counter cannot shoot at the card that triggered it, due to the presence of enemies?


From Rulebook 2.1, section 9.2.2:
Exception: when a US unit is on a card that contains both an Enemy Unit and a PC, if that PC triggers an enemy unit that places a VOF, that triggered Enemy unit WILL place its VOF on the card of the triggering unit (targeting the US unit that triggered it, per 9.2). Thus, in this case only Enemy units do place VOFs on cards that contain other Enemy units.

So, I play that the PC Marker is NOT removed, and shoot both units (friendly and enemies)
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The other Euro guy
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On my most recent reading of the 2017 rules I chewed over the rule above (quoted by Juno) and then confused myself in 9.4 where we read:

Quote:
An enemy unit not otherwise engaged against a friendly unit must engage (place a VOF marker and PDF marker) any friendly unit that moves into its LOS; no draw is necessary. Unlike friendly forces, Enemy units will engage cards that contain units from both sides.


Is 9.2.2 wrong to describe that situation as the only one where enemy units will place a VOF on a card that is occupied by other enemy units? 9.4 seems to suggest they will do this as a matter of routine?
 
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Juno
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ReggieMcFly wrote:
Is 9.2.2 wrong to describe that situation as the only one where enemy units will place a VOF on a card that is occupied by other enemy units?
Yes, the 2017 rulebook uses a lot of "wordings" from v2.1 and v2008.

ReggieMcFly wrote:
9.4 seems to suggest they will do this as a matter of routine?
Yes, I pointed this in the rules changed thread, but dont forget that this situation only occurs when the enemy isn't engaged against any friendly unit and has LOS to them.
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The other Euro guy
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Thanks, Juno!
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