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Subject: From what time on are summer boats active? rss

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Frank Otte
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Since Boat 1a or Boat 1b come - as the name summer boat says - into play at summer, but explicitely grant their advantages also in summer, you could assume, that ALL effects of summer boats are active from the moment on, they are acquired, and not only after it was put into your village.

Is that true?

This is especially important for boat 2a. If this would be active in summer, all your acquired tiles in summer could already ignore the matching rule.
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Alex P
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"Acquired" is synonymous with "put into your village".
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Tony Randall
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Right Alex, I don't think he was looking to be able to use a boat advantage while it was still out for bid.

But is there any implicit or explicit ordering when placing new tiles into your village? If the boats are (or can be considered to be) attached to the village first, then other tiles could take the advantage. If boats must be attached last, then other tiles could not take the advantage.

At least that's how I read Frank's question. I don't have the rules handy and haven't played myself in quite a while so I don't know and am thus curious about the answer myself.
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Alex P
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Follow the rules literally and there's no problem: from the moment that boat touches your village, you have its power. So 2a would have to follow the rule but every other tile, in that season, would be exempt.
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brian
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I would play it that as soon as you acquire it (whether it has been placed or not) you get the ability. That means you can place tiles in any way you want with boat 2a even if you haven't placed 2a yet.
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Frank Otte
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ColtsFan76 wrote:
I would play it that as soon as you acquire it (whether it has been placed or not) you get the ability. That means you can place tiles in any way you want with boat 2a even if you haven't placed 2a yet.


I tend to follow this opinion - otherwise boats 1a and 1b would be a very strange mix up of the otherwise very clear and consistent ordering of steps in the game flow.

On the other hand, the prologue for the summer boats in the rules clearly says: "When in a player's village the tile gives that player a unique ability."

On page 8 is stated: "Players simultaneously add the village tiles (...) to their village." - So an acquired tile is not yet part of the village before it is added.

Put both quotes together, the rules, literally taken, clearly say, that boats do not have an effect, before they are added.

This simply does not match to the effects of boats 1a and 1b. A statement of the author would be fine, if 1a and 1b are simply an exception of the rule, or all boats behave like 1a and 1b, and the rules are just a bit misleading in this point.
 
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Frank Otte
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Quote:
At least that's how I read Frank's question. I don't have the rules handy and haven't played myself in quite a while so I don't know and am thus curious about the answer myself.


The question is mainly, that taking workers from the boats is ordered before expanding the villages in game flow, contrary to the fact, that the advantage of boats 1a and 1b come into effect in the moment of taking a ship load.

So, under the premise, that summer ships are not in effect before adding them to the villages, the boat 1a or 1b cannot grant its advantage in summer, because in the moment you get a ship load in summer, ship 1a/1b is acquired but not yet added to the village. But the comment in rules for these ships and the (double) summer symbol on them explicitely indicate, that their advantage is granted also in summer.

So there are three possibilities of interpretation:

(1) The rules are literally correct as written. Normally, the summer boats come into effect not before they are added to the village. Boats 1a and 1b are simply an explicit exception from this.

(2) The boats 1a and 1b are no exception, but an instance of the somewhat hidden rule, that ALL summer ships come into effect in the moment they are acquired.

(3) The boat descriptions in the rules and the symbols of boats 1a and 1b are wrong and they come into effect only in fall and winter (unprobable).

Should (1) be true, the additional question arises, like mentioned above, if a boat (namely 2a) is effective, after it is added to the village, but before the next tile of the same season is added.

At least, I am of the opinion that all acquired tiles of a player are not added at the same time, but in an arbitrary but defined order. Otherwise "chain additions" would be not possible. But they are possible, as far as I know.

Explaination, what I mean with chain addition: You put tile A to your village, after that, you put tile B to your village, only connected to tile A.
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brian
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Hermjard wrote:
On the other hand, the prologue for the summer boats in the rules clearly says: "When in a player's village the tile gives that player a unique ability."

Yes, but I think this distinction is made to contrast that it has an ability that cannot be used before it is owned. Summer boats are unique in this aspect (well, besides Winter tiles which are their own beast).

I think the main point is that once it is yours (e.g, the bidding is over), you own it. And since they are rule-breaking tiles, they are in effect immediately even if they haven't been placed in their final resting place yet.

But always good to get an official clarification in case the intent is missed.
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Alex P
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Hermjard wrote:
This simply does not match to the effects of boats 1a and 1b. A statement of the author would be fine, if 1a and 1b are simply an exception of the rule, or all boats behave like 1a and 1b, and the rules are just a bit misleading in this point.


Um, those boats are what's called an "exception". That's why their description has to include that extra text.
 
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Sebastian Bleasdale
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Hermjard wrote:
This is especially important for boat 2a. If this would be active in summer, all your acquired tiles in summer could already ignore the matching rule.
The intention is that boat 2a's ability applies while you are adding it to your village. This means that you can ignore the matching rule for all tiles (including boat 2a itself) played during the turn in which you acquire boat 2a.

I hope you continue to enjoy Keyflower.

Sebastian Bleasdale
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brian
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Sebastian Bleasdale wrote:
This means that you can ignore the matching rule for all tiles played during the turn in which you acquire boat 2a.

And just to be crystal clear, this is also true for boat 2a as well, correct? (Because it was stated above that that it might not work on itself)
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Vincent Coppola
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Ok, what is the "matching rule" and what does Sebastian's reply mean? Do those two boat work in the Summer turn, or not? I other words, if I acquire the tile, do I get the extra two colonists when I choose my (Summer) ship a few seconds later in the turn?
 
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brian
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Judythecat wrote:
Ok, what is the "matching rule" and what does Sebastian's reply mean?

The matching rule says that when placing tiles the two adjoining edges must match - field to field, road to road, water to water. Boat 2a allows you to ignore this rule.

Quote:
Do those two boat work in the Summer turn, or not? I other words, if I acquire the tile, do I get the extra two colonists when I choose my (Summer) ship a few seconds later in the turn?

Yes, the boats become active in the Summer round so their special rules apply.
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