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Subject: NBN TWIY* ICE Quandry :-) rss

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Duke Of Lizards
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I've been running a TWIY* FA deck, and it's been quite successful. It's pretty straightforward 2x Biotic, 2x SanSan that just rushes agendas out like crazy.

I have 2 influence for 1 slot of ICE, and I am going back and forth between Ichi 1.0 and Caduceus. There are pros and cons for each:

Ichi Pros: expensive to break for most Killers; program destruction turns Wraparounds back on; Brain damage and a tag make warm fuzzies for a corp

Cons: More expensive to rez; can be clicked through; doesn't end the run; my only tag punishment is 1x Closed Accounts


Caduceus - Pros - cheaper that Ichi to rez; can pay itself back immediately; ends the run until the breaker is out (or the trace is beaten); makes maths hard for some players (i.e., neglecting to account for me have +3 credits for the second trace); great on HQ to dump credits in case of Siphon


Cons: become pretty trivial for many breakers by mid-game; If I'm behind in credits, it doesn't stop the run


So, what do you guys think? It seems to me that Ichi has the higher upside, but Caduceus has higher downside, if that makes sense. In other words, Ichi is high-risk, high-reward. Has anyone tried in in NBN FA?

I'm not including a decklist, as I want to focus the discussion on this one decision rather than tweaking other things. I'm happy to answer questions about the deck, or if it becomes necessary, post a list. Thanks.
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Zeb
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Definitely Ichi 1.0, Astrobiotics forces runners to make risky runs and Ichi can punish them for it. Works well with Wraparound against AI breakers.
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Grish Noren
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Do you need the ice for the early game and does it need to stop the run? Even if it doesn't stop the run are you happy with the tax early game? Yes? Caduceus

Does your ice stop runs enough and you just need to make runs more expensive and land some nasty surprise? Yes? Ichi

I think you know what your deck needs. It's either an early game etr/taxer or a late game taxer.
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brodee ee
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I'd agree that ichi is a better choice than caduceus, unless you're running very low ice and you are concerned about not having enough at opening.

it is almost always taxing, if you put it in front of an etr, they'll have to break it. often the final sub wont be broken, but it will be taxing no matter what.

I would also consider two eli's, they're great central protection. a rush deck can benefit from taxing the runner as well. kind of like how pop up is awesome.

with astrobiotics, if the runner clicks by to get a single access on r&d, that is a huge win for you. you can just do one more additional draw and see a new card and the runner is giving you tempo. you don't have to worry so much about r&d lock because of fast track. thats why I like eli.

I run a 3 biotic version, and often I'm astonished how quickly a runner can get the corroder+zu out, I'd love to have room for elis.


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Duke Of Lizards
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Thanks for your thoughts, everyone.

I do indeed run two Elis (Elii?)
 
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Jacek Wieszaczewski
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IMO neither. Once we got Guard, I feel Astrobiotics no longer needs to import ice, and running 3x Biotic Labor is just insanely strong, better than any improvements to ice.
 
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Gregory Pettigrew
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polychrotid wrote:
two Elis (Elii?)


It's a tad heretical, but I'm gonna go with Elohim.
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brodee ee
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hsiale wrote:
IMO neither. Once we got Guard, I feel Astrobiotics no longer needs to import ice, and running 3x Biotic Labor is just insanely strong, better than any improvements to ice.

considering how reliant the deck is on biotic, I agree.

Playing the deck when you don't find a biotic is hard, and that is going to happen more often if you only have 2.

1 more biotic is increased chance to get it early. that also means it is an increased chance to get it before you're forced to use a jackson reshuffling, letting you recur it more often.

I've had games where the runner stole both my breaking news and we're both on 6 points, no astro token. he's keeping me r&d locked. my only avenue for victory is to double biotic out the napd he doesn't know is in my hand, or double biotic fast track a beale.

I only had those double biotics because I was able to get them early and reshuffle them in with jackson.

.. I realize this wasn't the question and apologize for rabbit holing.
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Zak Jarvis
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It would be very dependent on the rest of your ICE, but if you were thinking of including 'Caduceus' to end runs, how does 'Inazuma' compare for the same job? For the same influence and same rez cost:

Caduceus:
+can get you money
-can be broken with no icebreaker (by beating the traces, especially by runners with starting link)

Inazuma:
+requires two icebreakers out instead of one (if in front of sentry/barrier)
-requires another ICE installed
 
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Evgeny Reznikov
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etherial wrote:
polychrotid wrote:
two Elis (Elii?)


It's a tad heretical, but I'm gonna go with Elohim.


Amusingly enough, in the original Hebrew, "Elii" is indeed the plural of "Eli".
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