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Subject: [Deck] Introducing a new archetype: Never Score (NS) rss

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Michael Redston
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This deck is either a meta-defining stroke of ingeniuity or just another jank deck. First, let's take a look at the bizarre list:

Identity:
Jinteki: Personal Evolution (Core)

Total Cards: (49)

Agenda: (19)
3x Clone Retirement (Second Thoughts)
3x False Lead (A Study in Static)
3x Gila Hands Arcology (Creation and Control)
3x House of Knives (Honor and Profit)
1x Philotic Entanglement (Honor and Profit)
3x Profiteering (Second Thoughts)
3x Veterans Program (True Colors)

Asset: (12)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) ■
3x Shi.Kyū (Honor and Profit)
3x Shock! (True Colors)
3x Snare! (Core)

ICE: (0)

Operation: (16)
3x Biotic Labor (Core) ■■■■
3x Celebrity Gift (Opening Moves)
1x Fast Track (Honor and Profit)
3x Hedge Fund (Core)
3x Medical Research Fundraiser (Honor and Profit)
3x Neural EMP (Core)

Upgrade: (2)
2x Hokusai Grid (Humanity's Shadow)

Total Agenda Points: 20

Influence Values Totals -
Haas-Bioroid: 12
Jinteki: 46
NBN: 3
The Weyland Consortium: 0

Don't let those Biotics fool you, you aren't supposed to use them to score anything except for the Philotic killshot. The point to let the runner steal 6 agendas, hurt him a lot with ambushes why he does that, and then finally FA a Philotic for 6 net damage. Don't have it in hand? Fast Track>Biotic>Biotic>Score. How you let the runner take those 6 agendas is up to you. You can either sit back and amass money while he digs your R&D, or you can simply install 3 agendas in your turn. Stole all of them? excellent. Left some behind? you can score them if you want their effect, but it's up to you. You're probably asking yourself "well what happens if the runner steals your Philotic?" Excellent question. To which I answer: concede. This deck is either go big or go home. Just kidding, you can probably still manage a flatline with triple EMPs if you're lucky, but yeah you probably lost.
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Ony Moose
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You can also stick a lot of agendas in archives with your shock, then hit them for 6+ points when they access... (3 shock, Hokusai, 3+agendas)
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R. Fetterkey
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Why Biotic instead of Trick of Light?
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Daniel Wray
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This is an interesting idea. I feel like it doesn't lean on win conditions hard enough:

1) One Philotic and one Fast Track means you won't get your primary win cards very often.

2) With no ICE, how do you keep the Runner from grabbing your Philotic if you happen to draw it?

3) I feel like Ronins and potentially other traps (Cerebral) might help you set up alternate win conditions.

This could work with an IAA everything plan. If they steal it, great. If not, score agendas. It will mean eventually you will get to seven or they will get to a point where you can net damage for the kill. With enough net damage options (snare, Ronin, EMP) you may get to that point without necessarily needing to land the Philotic kill. Shi.Kyu can work against your Philotic kill but potentially help you set up an alternate kill.


EDIT: As has been pointed out I was incorrect on Shi.Kyu and Philotic. For whatever reason I was thinking points, not cards. The actual interaction is surprisingly hilarious.

The last problem with the Philotic kill is planning to hit them at exactly six. With so many 1 pointers, they could easily go from the 3-5 range to the win without giving you a chance for the 6 point kill shot.
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FirstName LastName
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cynchwyrm wrote:
The last problem with the Philotic kill is planning to hit them at exactly six.


Or, you know, Deus X.
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Michael Redston
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Well they won't ALWAYS end their turn with 5 cards in hand.

Also, the pont of Shi.Kyus is to act as Shocks 3-6; you pay 1 for them, and then either the runner takes 1 net damage and leaves it in archives (great) or adds him to his score area as 1 more agenda to count for Philotic (even greater).
 
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Aaron Smith
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cynchwyrm wrote:
Shi.Kyu can work against your Philotic kill but potentially help you set up an alternate kill.

.


Shi.Kyu counts as an agenda for Philotic. Philotic does one damage for each *agenda* the runner has, not agenda points. so even though it's an agenda worth -1 points, it's still an agenda, and Philotic will still do a net damage for it.
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Aaron Smith
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I think this deck is pretty hilarious actually. I'm not sure it would work more than a few times with regular opponents that might cotton to what you're up to, but those first few times would be pretty amusing. Deus X certainly does shut this deck down pretty hard though.
 
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Eric Rampson
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Try this. You want to score when you can, especially your Profiteerings...

Deck Created with CardGameDB.com Android: Netrunner Deck Builder


Fatal Calligraphy VI: Calligraphy Lives

Identity:
Jinteki: Personal Evolution (Core)


Total Cards: (54)

Agenda: (18)
Clone Retirement (Second Thoughts) x3
False Lead (A Study in Static) x3
Fetal AI (Trace Amount) x3
Gila Hands Arcology (Creation and Control) x2
House of Knives (Honor and Profit) x3
Philotic Entanglement (Honor and Profit) x1
Profiteering (Second Thoughts) x3

Asset: (12)
Jackson Howard (Opening Moves) x3 ■
Shi.Kyū (Honor and Profit) x3
Shock! (True Colors) x3
Snare! (Core) x3

ICE: (9)
Himitsu-Bako (Opening Moves) x1
Inazuma (Honor and Profit) x2
Komainu (Honor and Profit) x1
Neural Katana (Core) x2
Susanoo-no-Mikoto (Honor and Profit) x2
Tsurugi (True Colors) x1

Operation: (12)
Blue Level Clearance (Fear and Loathing) x3 ■■
Green Level Clearance (A Study in Static) x3 ■
Hedge Fund (Core) x3
Neural EMP (Core) x3

Upgrade: (3)
Corporate Troubleshooter (Core) x3 ■

Total Agenda Points: 22

Influence Values Totals -
Haas-Bioroid: 12
Jinteki: 52
NBN: 3
The Weyland Consortium: 0

The Idea: Make Archives fatal, then Corporate Troubleshoot/Inazuma or both a Susanoo-No-Mikoto, dumping the Runner into the trash compactor from Star Wars but WITHOUT C3PO and R2D2 to get her out.

Install stuff naked. A great first turn is Hedge Fund, install Snare!/Shock!/Shi.Kyu, install Profiteering. If they don't run the remotes, score Profiteering turn two. ALWAYS take all 15 credits. ALWAYS. Install more stuff the next few turns but NO Agendas. Those you toss in the trash, using Blue Level/Green Level Clearance and Jackson Howard to overdraw. Install over Shock!s and Shi.Kyus that have been on the table for a few turns to get them in Archives.
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Dave Chandler
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and when they steal that Philotic from R&D what then? Or if they play Deus X? There are too many situations that make this deck lose immediately.
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Sean Trundle
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cynchwyrm wrote:
Shi.Kyu can work against your Philotic kill but potentially help you set up an alternate kill.


Actually, in this kind of setup a 'scored' Shi.Kyu pulls double duty. It counts for one more point of damage by itself when you score Philotic, *and* it means the runner will need 8 'real' agendas before they win.

--

With that said, the deck seems like an overly fragile glass cannon. Not only do you have to have the exact right cards at the exact right moment, but you're dependent on the runner not scoring 2 or more points simultaneously in their final turn.

I would think about adding a few pieces of heavy-deterrent ice for your HQ -- something like Tollbooths or Susanoos -- and taxing ice for R&D (even just Pups). For this crazy plan to work, you want the runner scoring, but you want them scoring slowly and steadily, and you also need a safe-ish place to hold Philotic if you draw it. Might be worth considering Precognition for the same reason.

Given the opportunity, you *definitely* want to score House of Knives. This allows you to exercise some real pressure in controlling the pace of runs -- running on third/fourth click suddenly will make the runner vulnerable to a Philotic kill that much earlier in the game. Scoring Profiteering is also a good idea, to get the cash together to fund your Snare!s, Shi.Kyus, and your final Philotic burst.

 
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Glenn Avery
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I thought that when the runner accesses archives they reveal and then choose the order in which they access the cards. So if you had enogh in there for them to score out the win the game would end before your shi.kyu and shocks hit.

That said Susanoos would be great in this. Also archers.
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Steven Tu
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I went for a deck like this a while ago. Have you looked at a different deck size? I thought that 49 cards was NOT optimal for this setup because the fewer cards in it the more the runner is likely to accidentally hit Philotic, and you lose on the spot.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1169650/deck-philophilia-jan...
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Dave Chandler
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Tuism wrote:
I went for a deck like this a while ago. Have you looked at a different deck size? I thought that 49 cards was NOT optimal for this setup because the fewer cards in it the more the runner is likely to accidentally hit Philotic, and you lose on the spot.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1169650/deck-philophilia-jan...


Or Dear Mr. Tu... you're going about this all wrong.

What you're SUPPOSED to do is write a big pissy post about how nobody is giving you credit for your original idea.

Like this
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Steven Tu
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djc6535 wrote:
Tuism wrote:
I went for a deck like this a while ago. Have you looked at a different deck size? I thought that 49 cards was NOT optimal for this setup because the fewer cards in it the more the runner is likely to accidentally hit Philotic, and you lose on the spot.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1169650/deck-philophilia-jan...


Or Dear Mr. Tu... you're going about this all wrong.

What you're SUPPOSED to do is write a big pissy post about how nobody is giving you credit for your original idea.

Like this


To be fair, it was a short post, though I did label it the worst thread on BGG
 
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Dave Chandler
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Tuism wrote:
djc6535 wrote:
Tuism wrote:
I went for a deck like this a while ago. Have you looked at a different deck size? I thought that 49 cards was NOT optimal for this setup because the fewer cards in it the more the runner is likely to accidentally hit Philotic, and you lose on the spot.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1169650/deck-philophilia-jan...


Or Dear Mr. Tu... you're going about this all wrong.

What you're SUPPOSED to do is write a big pissy post about how nobody is giving you credit for your original idea.

Like this


To be fair, it was a short post, though I did correctly label it the worst thread on BGG


Fixed that for you
 
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Steven Tu
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djc6535 wrote:
Tuism wrote:
djc6535 wrote:
Tuism wrote:
I went for a deck like this a while ago. Have you looked at a different deck size? I thought that 49 cards was NOT optimal for this setup because the fewer cards in it the more the runner is likely to accidentally hit Philotic, and you lose on the spot.

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1169650/deck-philophilia-jan...


Or Dear Mr. Tu... you're going about this all wrong.

What you're SUPPOSED to do is write a big pissy post about how nobody is giving you credit for your original idea.

Like this


To be fair, it was a short post, though I did correctly label it the worst thread on BGG


Fixed that for you


Man my posts are all getting FTFY'd today, so much for being PC
 
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Joshua Swaner
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Since you asked: Jank.

I'm just going to slow-play the entire game with Deus Ex on the table and one run a turn, popping the Mr. Ex to counter Snare! if I have a way to recur it with the other three clicks I'm left with (otherwise I take it to the dome an make sure I have 3+ cards at end of turn to counter your Neural). Heck, I'll even leave the R&DI off the table AND only hit R&D.

Shouldn't be at all hard at all considering you have no way to force me to build more rig, spend my credits, or even make me want to run more than once a turn. Or even at all, if that strikes my fancy. Since you can't easily FA a win with your Biotics (your recursion being solely Jackson), I might just watch you deck out.

I guess the above might only apply to my friends the Shapers, but Criminal will just Siphon you hard and run R&D with R&DI (again ignoring Archives, although they may now Legwork your hand because Snare! has no teeth). That leaves this deck maybe being good against just Anarch, which is the least played faction. I guess that's something.

All the above being said, it IS an interesting idea. I just don't think it is there yet, and the current card pool certainly doesn't support the ICE-less plan because there aren't enough ways to tax a decent runner into making sub-optimal plays without ICE (in my not-so-humble opinion) and two of the three factions have frequently played ways to mitigate your damage potential down to almost zero with careful play.
 
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Manuel Galdames
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I run a Tennin Tax list and the chance to flatline with Philotics, especially with Trick of Light, is considerable. That said, it can and WILL get stolen often enough, making this less than a viable strategy.

What's more is that at least a third of the decks you face will be running a Deus X. As someone who's dabbling in Shaper at the moment, it's simply amazing the amount of freedom that little program gives you. Playing it smart, it's very hard for the Bonsai corp to actually kill you. But that's not what makes Jin a formidable corp now.

I believe the lack of ICE will bite you in the ass more often than not. No ICE means no need for draw. No need for draw means consistent and easy runs. No ICE means getting keyholed to death, or -maybe even worse- seeing Jinteki's second bane: Indexing.

I think Jinteki flatline decks have potential, but like all other decks, they need to have a certain plan B (or plan A, for that matter) in order to actually click.


Ever tried the 14 agenda setup?
 
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Carl Frodge
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A Jinteki deck with the intention of flatlining the runner? What an innovative idea!
 
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Zeb
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agentkuo wrote:
A Jinteki deck with the intention of flatlining the runner? What an innovative idea!


It's much more in-depth than that.
 
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Jan Bazynski
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It is an idea that is floating around on OCTGN. The best thing to do with agendas is not score them but advance them enough so they are ready to score at any moment during your turn. Treat them as click-free neural emps.
 
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Steven Tu
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I like how kroen obviously reads everything everyone ever posted here but he's not replying.

Possibly because his "first" got trumped?
 
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Dave Sutcliffe
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kroen wrote:
This deck is either a meta-defining stroke of ingeniuity or just another jank deck.


It's definitely one of these two things.
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