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Subject: Ronin and Tutoring for Deus X Timing? rss

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Markus ScratchingGeekyItch
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I have a 2 advanced Ronin at the start of my turn and the possibility for a kill. When is the last moment the runner can tutor for netdamage prevention? Reading the timing structure it would seem the last time is after I rez the ronin but that just seems wrong to me..
 
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Markus ScratchingGeekyItch
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After each action: Paid abilities, Non ice rez, Agenda score

So my paid abilities go first since it's my turn. I rez Ronin. Runners paid ability; tutors for Deus Ex?
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Fluff Da Sheep
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It's correct. Runner can fetch a Deus X right after you rez Ronin and before you have a chance to use it.
 
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Markus ScratchingGeekyItch
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That sucks imho.

Why didn't they just make it five tokens and trash to activate? Well you could have used it on the runners turn in that case but it would not have made tha card op I think. Then the runner would have to get their Deus Ex after the forth token and before they know if it's a Ronin or a 3-pointer
 
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Chris Wood
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Maybe they playtested it that way, and decided it was not the correct balance, and changed it to the way it is currently.

Don't forget the only way the runner can tutor for Deus Ex on the corp turn is if they have SMC installed, or clone chip installed, so only 2 specific cards weaken Ronin
 
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Markus ScratchingGeekyItch
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I know, its likely a killshot against crim and anarchs but most Kate-players will have 3 smc and 3 clone chips. So if you have an smc in the heap and a clone chip on the table you can fetch deus x for 2 or 4 creds (with kate discount) from heap or stack. Thats not an unlikely scenario.
 
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Nushura
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The thing is, they have to pay for the tutor, but you are not forced to use the ronin. Save it for the moment they hit a snare
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Andrew Duncan
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markusjarlstig wrote:
I know, its likely a killshot against crim and anarchs but most Kate-players will have 3 smc and 3 clone chips. So if you have an smc in the heap and a clone chip on the table you can fetch deus x for 2 or 4 creds (with kate discount) from heap or stack. Thats not an unlikely scenario.


It's actually a little more expensive than that. Having an SMC out already will cost them 4 credits to tutor Deus Ex after the discount, but Clone Chip into SMC into Deus Ex will cost them 5, since installing SMC voids the discout. Doing the same trick with a different Shaper will cost them 5 or 6 credits since you lose the discount on Deus Ex in the first instance or Clone Chip in the second.

Of course this is still a bad situation, advancing it the old fashioned way you're down 4 clicks on them and you're up 0-2 credits. However, if you Mushin'd out your Ronin then you're suddenly down 2 clicks, down 1 card, but up 3-5 credits! That's pretty decent considering they had the perfect answer to your play!
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Markus ScratchingGeekyItch
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Hehe. That's some wishful thinking! An exposed Ronin is as good as useless. 2 to trash and besides, if they hit a snare they already have the Deus Ex out so it wouldn't matter
 
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Markus ScratchingGeekyItch
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True. Mushin no Shin is probably the best way to pressure with Ronin but I can't find a place for it in my deck atm.

Playing a taxing RP deck leaning heavily on Ash and threatening flatline with the Hanzo + HoK combo with Ronins and Snares. With all the assets and upgrades the only operations I have room for are Diversified Portfolio and Interns. Not even running Hedgefunds.
 
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Ben Finkel
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markusjarlstig wrote:
That sucks imho.

Why didn't they just make it five tokens and trash to activate? Well you could have used it on the runners turn in that case but it would not have made tha card op I think. Then the runner would have to get their Deus Ex after the forth token and before they know if it's a Ronin or a 3-pointer


You could also, say, use it and 3 Neural EMPs, or use a full one and a 2-advanced one on a single turn, or activate three full ones AND three neural EMPs to fight the Feedback Filter Menace.

Also, they did it this way in part BECAUSE it lets you used paid abilities between the rez and the usage.
 
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Markus ScratchingGeekyItch
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Azeltir wrote:

You could also, say, use it and 3 Neural EMPs, or use a full one and a 2-advanced one on a single turn, or activate three full ones AND three neural EMPs to fight the Feedback Filter Menace.

Also, they did it this way in part BECAUSE it lets you used paid abilities between the rez and the usage.


If you get yourself into a position where the corp has a 5 advanced card and a 2 advanced card on the table without responding in any way you kind of deserve your flatline. It's a hell of a lot harder than sea source double cheese and deals less damage. No idea what your on about.
 
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Erin OConnor
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Mushin takes 2 clicks to play. That means you still have 1 click left that you can use to toss out a piece of ice in front.

Also works really good on other ambush cards.
 
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Andrew Keddie
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Echo2Omega wrote:
Mushin takes 2 clicks to play. That means you still have 1 click left that you can use to toss out a piece of ice in front.

Also works really good on other ambush cards.


I love Mushin. It really does give Ambushes legs; and lets you pull off some crazy nonsense with GRNDL Refinery.
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Gregory Pettigrew
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markusjarlstig wrote:
That sucks imho.

Why didn't they just make it five tokens and trash to activate? Well you could have used it on the runners turn in that case but it would not have made tha card op I think. Then the runner would have to get their Deus Ex after the forth token and before they know if it's a Ronin or a 3-pointer


FWIW, if NBN has 2 Advancement Counters on a card and either another Advancement Counter or another Installed Card, you need to worry about whether you should empty your Personal Workshop.
 
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Kim Choy
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fluffdasheep wrote:
It's correct. Runner can fetch a Deus X right after you rez Ronin and before you have a chance to use it.

Wait, what? This isn't correct is it?

If there's a paid ability window in effect (i.e. after a click is resolved, for example) then the player who's turn it is has priority and can activate as many paid abilities in a row as they want before giving their opponent an opportunity. So if Corp rezzes Ronin, they can then activate it's ability immediately without the runner being able to tutor for Deus X.
 
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Captain Frisk
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umchoyka wrote:
fluffdasheep wrote:
It's correct. Runner can fetch a Deus X right after you rez Ronin and before you have a chance to use it.

Wait, what? This isn't correct is it?

If there's a paid ability window in effect (i.e. after a click is resolved, for example) then the player who's turn it is has priority and can activate as many paid abilities in a row as they want before giving their opponent an opportunity. So if Corp rezzes Ronin, they can then activate it's ability immediately without the runner being able to tutor for Deus X.


I don't think this is true. Ronin's ability is a click ability - which means it must be played as an action. Rezzing the ronin would happen during paid ability windows - so the runner would have the chance to fetch a deus ex in response.
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Kim Choy
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Oh, right I forgot it was a click ability. Thanks!
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Ony Moose
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etherial wrote:
markusjarlstig wrote:
That sucks imho.

Why didn't they just make it five tokens and trash to activate? Well you could have used it on the runners turn in that case but it would not have made tha card op I think. Then the runner would have to get their Deus Ex after the forth token and before they know if it's a Ronin or a 3-pointer


FWIW, if NBN has 2 Advancement Counters on a card and either another Advancement Counter or another Installed Card, you need to worry about whether you should empty your Personal Workshop.


Actually it's worse than that. From 2 advancement, they can simply Shipment from SanSan and score the Character assassination. From 1 advancement and an unrezzed SanSan, they can Shipment, then rez+score to do it.

From 0 advancement counters and a scored Astroscript, they can Shipment from SanSan, rez the SanSan and then use the astroscript to score it. Although they probably would rather save the astro for scoring a 3/2 to win.
 
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