Stacie Winters
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I hope my question is making sense but basically when I see the new Dice Masters game I see it with the potential to becoming the next Magic: the Gathering... it hits on all cylinders, has the same overall feel to me while being fueled with dice instead of a deck of cards, has the collectible element which many of us really like (and many of us don't but those people don't count as far as this goes) and if WizKids were to shift their focus a bit and See this potential than I think that this game could really become the next huge collectible game...

and what I mean by shift their focus is that instead of every single set being its own game, which so far that's how they are being advertised and released... Avengers vs. X-Men, Uncanny X-Men, Dungeons and Dragons, Yugioh, and DC Comics... I can see that some of us will buy into all of them but not everybody because not everybody will want all of these different themes (like Yugioh, I know some of you won't get that because you don't like Yugioh)...

and instead of releasing all these as different games I was thinking that if they followed the more typical collectible model...

Release core game and a true expansion for that game, than either another core game with another true expansion... or a Core game with two expansions than another core game with two expansions all of these focusing on the same theme/setting/comic book world...

Wouldn't that be better for the entirety of the game line instead of getting a Marvel Dice Masters game, than a second Marvel Dice Masters game, then a D&D Dice Masters game, than a Yugioh Dice Masters game, than a DC Comics Dice Masters game, than probably a different Dice Masters game?

Are they missing a real opportunity here to tap into a market that's been largely dominated by Magic?
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ICE 0ne
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works for heroclix which is also made by wizkids...
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Brook Gentlestream
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I think they would settle for this being the next HeroClix, rather than the next Magic.

To be honest, I'm not so sure WizKids is interested in the integrity of the product line so much as the profitability of their licensing investments. NECA has a lot of licensing, and they have either bought the rights to those licensing or are currently paying for them, and I think they have to make each one pay off, especially if they want to sell those rights one day.
 
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Brian Kraack
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I don't think the next Marvel set is going to be a new game. It's just going to have it's own starter set.

I don't think they've said if/how Yugioh will work yet, have they?

They might have to call it a 'different' game for DC, just to get/use the license.

As for D&D ... I feel like it's pretty ambiguous whether it will be a different or same game. I think it will be different, to go along with all the other new D&D stuff coming this year.
 
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Joel Eddy
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I may be way off base, but I was under the assumption that every Dice Masters set would be compatible with the other. The D&D set is just going to add new modes I believe, but you will still be able to pair up Wolverine and Drizzt against Jarlaxle and Magneto... or whatever.
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John Galietta III
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There is one huge problem with trying that model, and that is the source material.

What has made MTG a powerhouse is the fact that it is really the only collectible-model game on the market that has an original IP(intellectual property). They aren't working off a TV show, book, movie or anything of the like. They have creative control to wander any which way they want to and keep it in line with the original model (i.e. Kamigawa for asian theme, Innistrad for horror theme, Theros for Greek theme).

One thing that has been made clear by past games is that if you focus on one IP that already has its own stand-alone media, you are bound to hit a wall. Look at Yu Yu Hakusho, DBZ, .Hack, they all hit a saturation point when it just wasn't that interesting anymore using the same characters to do the same thing.

While Marvel has a huge library of characters, how many can be spotlight characters in a game like this? How long does WK have before they have to start recycling characters? At least in MTG they could alter theme and alter gameplay through new keywords and mechanics where slight tweaks in how a block works could make it seem like no other block in the past. There's just not enough variety in MDM to do this. We don't have Instants or enchantments, things that can be focused on from one block to the next. It's a simple game, with simple gameplay.

So, when you have a simple game, without the huge variability that games like MTG has, what is your next step to make it marketable? Grab a new IP. There's no guaranteeing that everyone currently in the game will like it, but you still have:
Those who like both IPs.
Those who are into the game and will buy new sets regardless of IP.
Those who haven't tried the game under the current IP, but are interested in the new one and will decide to give it a try.

Do I think it's feesable to expand this game to be able to hold a block-type collectible model? Possibly, but you'd have to give the game a lot more flavor and variability.

Do I think it's the best move for this game? Not really. I'm in group #2 above. I love the game and really have no qualms about trying a new set, regardless of the IP. Granted I probably won't buy as much of an IP I don't care for, compared to one I'm a fan of, but it wouldn't be a strict "no buy".
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This game is gonna be exactly like heroclix. Each set they release can be played on its own but can be used with other sets/themes. You can look up videos of Heroclix championships at Gencon and see how varied the teams are.

Wizkids definitely wants to put their different licenses to work so I think the only way to achieve what you want is rather than each theme feeling so substantive; mash them all together so a single set will have some Marvel/DC/Yugioh all mixed in. First, I'm not sure if the licensing agreements would even allow them to do that but beyond that I think the way they're doing it now allows them to maximize enthusiasm from the fans for the individual themes. I think AvX has 38 different characters. If they divided that up it would basically be 12 characters from each license which would really limit interest. Someone likes Yugioh but there's only 12 Yugioh characters in the game? Is it worth the bother getting into a new game to collect all of 12 characters?

It's à la carte, you choose which sets you do or don't want to buy into but if you play in tournaments be prepared for mixed teams.
 
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I am not against how they are doing it now, far from it. I plan on getting into every set they release. I just preordered the Uncanny X-Men set after all.

I was just wondering and thought I'd ask what was on my mind. One of the reasons was because of how similar they could have released sets like how Upper Deck released sets for the VS game where one set was Marvel, than the next was DC, and they switched back and forth between the two.

Which I guess is similar to how they release Heroclix stuff to a certain degree but I've never gotten into Heroclix so I have no idea about how they do that game.

Either way, the more Dice Masters released the better.
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According to commentary from the designers (as has been discussed on a few podcasts), every Dice Masters set will be compatible to play against any other, but the systems will be different enough to keep teams from intermixing: specifically, the energy types on the starting dice. For example, Marvel sidekicks won't have the energy types needed to buy dice from Dungeons & Dragons or vice-versa ("Hmm, these Bolts and Fists won't buy that Lich die, I need Skull energy for that"). Otherwise, the game mechanics will roughly be equal and balanced.

I see this as a good thing. It means any Dice Masters player can play any other, regardless of their geeky theme of choice, and that you don't have to deal with ludicrous, unthematic teams such as Green Goblin leading a band of Beholders, Blue-Eyes White Dragon, Superman, Freddy Krueger, Cthulhu, Twilight Sparkle, and the USS Enterprise-D. You just have to buy dice from expansions for your universe(s) of choice, ignore sets that don't give you a nerd-on, then let worlds collide at your leisure.

Assuming they balance everything out, how is that not awesome?
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Dave M
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OP, That's not exactly what's happening. Each set will have its own dedicated organized play, but surely unofficial store-level tournaments can/will have mixing. See Heroclix for how this works. Right now, they have "War of Light" out; their organized play is based SOLELY on "War of Light" for the next six months. However, you can still play with everything together. It's just how they promote their new sets.
 
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They should theoretically be compatible, and just in case it somehow matters at some point, the card backs actually just say generically "Dicemasters". So, if somehow it becomes important (a draft or something?) that you don't know what a card is, they should all look the same on the back.
 
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Stacie Winters
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galathonredd wrote:
According to commentary from the designers (as has been discussed on a few podcasts), every Dice Masters set will be compatible to play against any other, but the systems will be different enough to keep teams from intermixing: specifically, the energy types on the starting dice. For example, Marvel sidekicks won't have the energy types needed to buy dice from Dungeons & Dragons or vice-versa ("Hmm, these Bolts and Fists won't buy that Lich die, I need Skull energy for that"). Otherwise, the game mechanics will roughly be equal and balanced.

I see this as a good thing. It means any Dice Masters player can play any other, regardless of their geeky theme of choice, and that you don't have to deal with ludicrous, unthematic teams such as Green Goblin leading a band of Beholders, Blue-Eyes White Dragon, Superman, Freddy Krueger, Cthulhu, Twilight Sparkle, and the USS Enterprise-D. You just have to buy dice from expansions for your universe(s) of choice, ignore sets that don't give you a nerd-on, then let worlds collide at your leisure.

Assuming they balance everything out, how is that not awesome?


Because I for one love the idea of mixing my universes together on my own team. Talk about the potential fun of that happening.

I for one would really enjoy having Dizzt and Wulfgar teamed up with Wolverine and Deadpool with Deathstroke and the Joker with a Blue Eyes, White Dragon and a Beholder to back them up.

I mean, why would anybody not want this kind of potential fun to happen? I would absolutely love this kind of mashup to happen and if WizKids did go with every different game of Dice Masters having their own energy than this just can't happen. Sure I could play a D&D group against your Marvel group but the ultimate cosmic crisis' that could possible happen just wouldn't happen.

That is a lost opportunity IMO.
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MirrorsNight wrote:
That is a lost opportunity IMO.


That defines Wizkids to a T.

Fortunately the game is good enough that I can overlook that. After Uncanny X-Men I will probably be done (unless there are other Marvel sets).

And that's the fun of collectible gaming. You pick your jump in and jump out point. I'll have so many dice from just those two sets I think I'll be fine!
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Nathan Bredfeldt
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Would the OP tourneys require all players bring dice and cards from one specific universe (This will be a Marvel Tourney! or, This is a Yu-Gi-Oh tourney!) or would players be allowed to pic the universe of their choice for their team?

If you are allowed to choose which universe to bring your team from, I wonder how the concept of different energy types for different games is going to affect the universal powers. I don't know what they are called, I don't have the game yet. I'm talking about powers like Gearing up.

As for the starters in every game, I am currently glad they are doing this, as starters have been impossible to find since before I was even made aware of this game. Who knows which expansion from which game will be the first one I find at the FLGS (or Target, Toys R Us, whichever)
 
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Alex W

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OmegaDolphin wrote:
MirrorsNight wrote:
That is a lost opportunity IMO.


That defines Wizkids to a T.

Fortunately the game is good enough that I can overlook that. After Uncanny X-Men I will probably be done (unless there are other Marvel sets).

And that's the fun of collectible gaming. You pick your jump in and jump out point. I'll have so many dice from just those two sets I think I'll be fine!


It's not like Uncanny X-Men will be their last Marvel Dice Master set anyway. Just like in Heroclix they will probably release one or two major Marvel sets a year.
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Brook Gentlestream
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I'm looking forward to a Batman / Gotham City set.
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Daniel Drickman
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No, they are making a smart business move.
 
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Don D.
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There is a near 0 percent chance that MDM will ever hit 10% of magic the gathering's success. Be realistic.
 
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affeinvasion wrote:
OmegaDolphin wrote:
MirrorsNight wrote:
That is a lost opportunity IMO.


That defines Wizkids to a T.

Fortunately the game is good enough that I can overlook that. After Uncanny X-Men I will probably be done (unless there are other Marvel sets).

And that's the fun of collectible gaming. You pick your jump in and jump out point. I'll have so many dice from just those two sets I think I'll be fine!


It's not like Uncanny X-Men will be their last Marvel Dice Master set anyway. Just like in Heroclix they will probably release one or two major Marvel sets a year.


And I would imagine that the Marvel sets will keep "dice continuity," seeing how there are character dice with burst symbols who don't yet have cards with accompanying burst effects. I still think it's a fair presumption.

dond80 wrote:
There is a near 0 percent chance that MDM will ever hit 10% of magic the gathering's success. Be realistic.


Pretty sure with several people buying 5+ gravity feeds at a time Wizkids doesn't even need to compare the success of MDM with the success of Magic. The line graph shows profit either way.
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Reverend Redd
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MirrorsNight wrote:
galathonredd wrote:
According to commentary from the designers (as has been discussed on a few podcasts), every Dice Masters set will be compatible to play against any other, but the systems will be different enough to keep teams from intermixing: specifically, the energy types on the starting dice. For example, Marvel sidekicks won't have the energy types needed to buy dice from Dungeons & Dragons or vice-versa ("Hmm, these Bolts and Fists won't buy that Lich die, I need Skull energy for that"). Otherwise, the game mechanics will roughly be equal and balanced.

I see this as a good thing. It means any Dice Masters player can play any other, regardless of their geeky theme of choice, and that you don't have to deal with ludicrous, unthematic teams such as Green Goblin leading a band of Beholders, Blue-Eyes White Dragon, Superman, Freddy Krueger, Cthulhu, Twilight Sparkle, and the USS Enterprise-D. You just have to buy dice from expansions for your universe(s) of choice, ignore sets that don't give you a nerd-on, then let worlds collide at your leisure.

Assuming they balance everything out, how is that not awesome?


Because I for one love the idea of mixing my universes together on my own team. Talk about the potential fun of that happening.

I for one would really enjoy having Dizzt and Wulfgar teamed up with Wolverine and Deadpool with Deathstroke and the Joker with a Blue Eyes, White Dragon and a Beholder to back them up.

I mean, why would anybody not want this kind of potential fun to happen? I would absolutely love this kind of mashup to happen and if WizKids did go with every different game of Dice Masters having their own energy than this just can't happen. Sure I could play a D&D group against your Marvel group but the ultimate cosmic crisis' that could possible happen just wouldn't happen.

That is a lost opportunity IMO.


I give you that. Opinions vary. I think the idea of mixing themes is crazy, but I cannot discount that there are those out there who love their crazy crossovers. You can't please everyone... but you CAN kick their asses in Dice Masters, whether you've got a Munchkin Blender for a team or not!

Simple fix, though: for every energy set, just make a chart of icon equivalences. Like "Mask = Skull, Bolt = Phaser, Shield = Rock = Elder Sign = Moose" or whatever. Come up with conversions that make sense and your group can agree on, then mash 'em right up.
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Stacie Winters
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dond80 wrote:
There is a near 0 percent chance that MDM will ever hit 10% of magic the gathering's success. Be realistic.


No I'd much rather live with my head in the clouds and wish that there was another game that would take some of Magic's thunder...

With MDM's price point, collectability and the fact that the game plays just like Magic except it uses dice instead of cards for the randomizer... with some people buying 3 to 5 gravity feed boxes a pop plus probably wishing to get 2 sets of starters the fact that this game is so cheap to get into will definitely cater to the Magic crowd as well as the people who have wanted to get into a collectible game and now can with a game that's so cheap to buy into.

With the popularity of the Marvel movies lately, with D&D 5e rpg coming out soon, and all the other licenses they could tie into this game WizKids can do something really amazing with this.

Now I am not saying that this will replace Magic as the #1 collectible game on the market and I am not saying WizKids should try for that... not at all. All I am saying is that this could be the Next Big Thing!
 
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Tim Goodrick
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galathonredd wrote:


Simple fix, though: for every energy set, just make a chart of icon equivalences. Like "Mask = Skull, Bolt = Phaser, Shield = Rock = Elder Sign = Moose" or whatever. Come up with conversions that make sense and your group can agree on, then mash 'em right up.


Or perhaps, more simply, having a team of characters from different universes (Marvel/DC/D&D etc) could be treated like a multicolour deck in Magic. For a black/blue deck in Magic you'd need to include both Swamps and Islands in your deck; for a Marvel/D&D Dicemasters team you'd want to include Sidekicks from both sets. So 4 Marvel Sidekicks and 4 of whatever the D&D equivalent will be if you have a team evenly balanced between the 2 sets. For an unbalanced team you might need to adjust the proportion away from 50/50.

Of course this assumes that the other sets will follow the same format as AvX (starting bag of 8 'Sidekicks' etc).
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Don D.
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MirrorsNight wrote:
dond80 wrote:
There is a near 0 percent chance that MDM will ever hit 10% of magic the gathering's success. Be realistic.


the game plays just like Magic except it uses dice instead of cards for the randomizer...


Saying this game plays just like magic is akin to saying risk plays just like path of glory. I love MDM, but it is a significantly lighter, more shallow, and less competitive exercise than magic. They just aren't in the same ballpark.
 
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Stacie Winters
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dond80 wrote:
MirrorsNight wrote:
dond80 wrote:
There is a near 0 percent chance that MDM will ever hit 10% of magic the gathering's success. Be realistic.


the game plays just like Magic except it uses dice instead of cards for the randomizer...


Saying this game plays just like magic is akin to saying risk plays just like path of glory. I love MDM, but it is a significantly lighter, more shallow, and less competitive exercise than magic. They just aren't in the same ballpark.


Both have 20 life, both allow you to use different sources of mana/energy, both let you draw a card/roll some dice to determine what comes out next, both allow you to choose when and if you want to attack and when and if you want to block with your defenders and both are aimed at taking your opponents life down to 0 and depending on how you play this game can certainly be a competitive exercise and I'd even say it's better than Magic because at least in this game you are less likely to get Energy screwed whereas in Magic getting Mana screwed happens quite a bit and losing just because you couldn't draw a single mana type seriously bites.

I've never had that problem in any game of MDM that I've played.

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Reverend Redd
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Buried Thorn wrote:
galathonredd wrote:


Simple fix, though: for every energy set, just make a chart of icon equivalences. Like "Mask = Skull, Bolt = Phaser, Shield = Rock = Elder Sign = Moose" or whatever. Come up with conversions that make sense and your group can agree on, then mash 'em right up.


Or perhaps, more simply, having a team of characters from different universes (Marvel/DC/D&D etc) could be treated like a multicolour deck in Magic. For a black/blue deck in Magic you'd need to include both Swamps and Islands in your deck; for a Marvel/D&D Dicemasters team you'd want to include Sidekicks from both sets. So 4 Marvel Sidekicks and 4 of whatever the D&D equivalent will be if you have a team evenly balanced between the 2 sets. For an unbalanced team you might need to adjust the proportion away from 50/50.

Of course this assumes that the other sets will follow the same format as AvX (starting bag of 8 'Sidekicks' etc).


Great idea! It's risky; you get less consistent energy rolls, but more variety when those rolls pay out just right, like getting color-screwed in Magic. It sounds like a fair payoff.
 
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