Michael Lam
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I'm relatively new to selling on BGG. I've sold several items locally, and have shipped a couple to sellers with solid track records of purchasing games on BGG. I've been very cautious about shipping games I sell on BGG. Is there a 'Best Practices Guide' for selling in the BGG marketplace to help protect the seller. I have a game 'Dungeon Run' which I'm selling through the marketplace which is now OOP, and I have had several requests to ship this game out of the country from buyers who are relatively new to BGG, but have no buying/selling history on BGG. I am trying not to discriminate against new users, as I myself am still newish, but I'm cautious because I've been burned before (not on BGG) and its not fun. My only thoughts were to force sellers to pay via friends and family via paypal. But I've heard stories that even this is not bullet proof because a user can pay with their credit card and dispute the charge with their credit card company, even if paypal won't let them dispute it (which I've also heard of paypal reversing due to claims of 'hacked' account). So is there a convenient form of payment (via paypal or otherwise) that is 'bulletproof' from being defrauded while not causing undue annoyance to either party? (ie, the obvious but annoying send cash via mail, and then ship). I'm not sure there is a completely bulletproof method, but I'd appreciate serious replies with what other sellers policies are. Thanks! Any particularly good responses I will edit into this post for easier reading by others later.
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Jeff Michaud
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I started downsizing my collection last year which means selling lots of games... my best practices is....

only accept either....

1. paypal... make sure buyer selects "goods" and selects a ship address within paypal that is paypal "confirmed"... this gives you paypal "sellers protection" (you also need to ship w/tracking... which also means I only ship within the USA)

2. USPS money order... these are the only secure type of money order's you can accept... when receiving you can not only check the security features (band, water mark) but also can call a toll free number and enter in several pieces of info from it to "verify" the money order... and it's a money order that is very hard to "revoke"/"stop payment"... other money orders can be fake and you can deposit but only days later get discovered... usually after you've shippped

I've no problem shipping to "new users" w/these practices
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Evil Bob
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When I get things shipped from the US using USPS, I use Canadapost.ca tracking. I simply enter the USPS tracking # and it'll track packages from beginning to end. It works really well and US sellers can verify that their packages were received.

You can sell to Canadians with confidence

Just make sure to ship via USPS or else you might accidentally ding your buyer with brokerage fees.
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Caleb Glave
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I've sold a few things on BGG over the years. So far I haven't had many problems with those that have paid. The bigger problem, I've had from new users is that they will "buy" a game and disappear. Leaving me to clean up the mess and re-list. I've been stuck paying BGG their cut on games I never received money for, before I figured out how canceling and requesting the commission refunded works. Still, a brand new user will most likely get a GM before I confirm a sale. This has cut down on almost all on my non-paying buyer trouble.

As far as other countries go, I have shipped to many countries (including ill-reputed Brazil) and I have never had an issue.
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Jeff Michaud
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warning to those accepting paypal "gift" payments...

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/beware-paypal-gift-chargebac...
(and other web articles/posts on this)

I've at least twice had a buyer try to tell me that they will "gift" me the payment to avoid fees and that I don't need to worry that I then don't qualify for "seller protection" because they as buyer also don't have any protection and I'm actually safer as they can't chargeback a "gift"
 
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Thank you for pointing it out. I have been selling quite a lot through the marketplace. I haven't had any problems even though I didn't pay attention if the payment was a gift or the address confirmed. Now I will.
Thanks.
 
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Jeff Michaud
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other thing to watch for... been seeing this year a few buyers who are non-USA residents using either a forwarding agent (who then ship it to them outside the country)... you can spot them as the "suite" number in the address is many digits longer than you'd expect

The problem is since I only ship to paypal confirmed ship address or any USA address if they are sending me a usps money order but they can't do either....

* since paypal can't confirm their forwarding address because they don't live there

* and you as far as I know can only buy a usps money order in person by going to a us post office

Wasted time finding boxes, weighing and measuring to get the shipping quote, as well as time those games are not available for someone else in the marketplace, and an even bigger hassle is canceling the order after I've confirmed it, and in at least one case I had to go an re-list the game because it didn't stay in my bgg mp "inventory"...

... best to spot such addresses before confirming orders
 
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Michael Lam
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JeffyJeff wrote:
warning to those accepting paypal "gift" payments...

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/beware-paypal-gift-chargebac...
(and other web articles/posts on this)

I've at least twice had a buyer try to tell me that they will "gift" me the payment to avoid fees and that I don't need to worry that I then don't qualify for "seller protection" because they as buyer also don't have any protection and I'm actually safer as they can't chargeback a "gift"


So the problem that I see with Paypal:

1) Buyer pays as normal transaction (goods and services) with credit card, you take the 3% hit on fees, but get 'seller protection'.
-----However, buyer disputes with paypal, and from what I read, seller almost always looses.
-----Even if you win paypal dispute, seller disputes with credit card company which docks paypal, who then has no choice but to dock you. Seller looses.
2) Buyer pays as gift with credit card.
-----Buyer disputes with paypal, and even though in theory has no recourse, I've heard of people with who actually win paypal dispute due to claims of account hacking. Seller looses.
-----Even if you win paypal dispute, buyer disputes with credit card company and paypal looses, and thus seller looses.

So it seems to me, if you accept paypal, and a seller were determined to skip payment, then they can find a way to wiggle out. The ultimate is the credit card dispute which seems there is no way of getting around. It seems there is no way to tell whether the payment is non-credit card via paypal, is that correct? It seems to me that in theory, the most secure paypal payment would be:

A bank account or balance funded paypal payment via 'goods and services' where you raise the price 3% to compensate for the fees (but get seller protection).

However, you seem to have no way of knowing if its a bank account or balance funded transfer, as well as the seller protection seems to be worth little if a buyer really is experienced at defrauding.

What are peoples experiences with amazon gift cards as payment? or other forms? google payments, etc?
 
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Jeff Michaud
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bjjarm wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
warning to those accepting paypal "gift" payments...

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/beware-paypal-gift-chargebac...
(and other web articles/posts on this)

I've at least twice had a buyer try to tell me that they will "gift" me the payment to avoid fees and that I don't need to worry that I then don't qualify for "seller protection" because they as buyer also don't have any protection and I'm actually safer as they can't chargeback a "gift"
So the problem that I see with Paypal:

1) Buyer pays as normal transaction (goods and services) with credit card, you take the 3% hit on fees, but get 'seller protection'.
-----However, buyer disputes with paypal, and from what I read, seller almost always looses.
-----Even if you win paypal dispute, seller disputes with credit card company which docks paypal, who then has no choice but to dock you. Seller looses.

where did you "read" that? I definitely would be interested in hearing any 1st hand accounts of other sellers not being covered

From my understanding seller protection, if you qualify (ship to confirmed address, have delivery confirmation, and if over a certain amount may require to pay for signature delivery) that paypal is the one taking the risk in the case of a charge back from the CC company?
 
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Paul M
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Bitcoin payments are permanent. I'm a long-term, honest, reliable seller, and I'd take a bitcoin transaction over paypal anyday.
 
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ipgyst wrote:
Bitcoin payments are permanent. I'm a long-term, honest, reliable seller, and I'd take a bitcoin transaction over paypal anyday.

I'm not a gambler and I definitely wouldn't, seems like a pyramid scheme, they can't even track down the guy who supposedly started it... but this is semi-off topic though probably belongs in a thread that probably already exists... and indeed many...

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e...
 
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Michael Lam
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JeffyJeff wrote:
bjjarm wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
warning to those accepting paypal "gift" payments...

http://forums.watchuseek.com/f2/beware-paypal-gift-chargebac...
(and other web articles/posts on this)

I've at least twice had a buyer try to tell me that they will "gift" me the payment to avoid fees and that I don't need to worry that I then don't qualify for "seller protection" because they as buyer also don't have any protection and I'm actually safer as they can't chargeback a "gift"
So the problem that I see with Paypal:

1) Buyer pays as normal transaction (goods and services) with credit card, you take the 3% hit on fees, but get 'seller protection'.
-----However, buyer disputes with paypal, and from what I read, seller almost always looses.
-----Even if you win paypal dispute, seller disputes with credit card company which docks paypal, who then has no choice but to dock you. Seller looses.

where did you "read" that? I definitely would be interested in hearing any 1st hand accounts of other sellers not being covered


From paypals website (https://www.paypal.com/c2/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/s...):
"A chargeback, also known as a reversal, occurs when a buyer asks a credit card company to reverse a transaction that has already cleared. A buyer may file a chargeback with his/her card issuer based on credit card association regulations and timeframes.
Although a chargeback may appear similar to a PayPal claim, it’s actually a process that is granted to a cardholder by their credit card company and initiated outside of PayPal. In a dispute over a chargeback, the decision is ultimately made by the credit card company and PayPal can’t control the outcome.
Two common reasons for reversals or chargebacks are:
A buyer’s credit card number is stolen and used fraudulently.
A buyer makes a purchase, but believes that the seller failed to fulfill their side of the agreement (for example, they did not ship the item, shipped an item that was very different from the seller's description, or the item was damaged when the buyer received it).
All sellers who accept credit card payments run the risk of being liable for chargebacks. Chargebacks are among the unfortunate costs of doing business. Many sellers factor this cost into their business risk model."
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Jeff Michaud
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interestingly, still curious to hear of BGG sellers actually having this happen to them... on a sale where the buyer had a paypal confirmed ship address (and they shipped to it)??

I still feel more secure selling even to a bgg "new user" with a paypal confirmed ship address than someone who may have been on bgg for a few years but is not only doesn't have a paypal confirmed ship address, but is also not even paypal "verified".

If anyone is really concerned I guess they could add that they will only accept paypal payments funded by paypal balance or ACH from their linked bank account.
 
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Michael Lam
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JeffyJeff wrote:

interestingly, still curious to hear of BGG sellers actually having this happen to them... on a sale where the buyer had a paypal confirmed ship address (and they shipped to it)??


I'm interested as well about any problems people have had.

JeffyJeff wrote:

If anyone is really concerned I guess they could add that they will only accept paypal payments funded by paypal balance or ACH from their linked bank account.


Is there a way to tell the paypal payment was from balance/bank account? I'm new-ish to using paypal, but as best as I can tell, the balance just shows up in your account, and you are docked the 3%+0.30, so you know it was a 'goods and service' transaction, but you aren't told how they paid.
 
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Paul M
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JeffyJeff wrote:
ipgyst wrote:
Bitcoin payments are permanent. I'm a long-term, honest, reliable seller, and I'd take a bitcoin transaction over paypal anyday.

I'm not a gambler and I definitely wouldn't, seems like a pyramid scheme, they can't even track down the guy who supposedly started it... but this is semi-off topic though probably belongs in a thread that probably already exists... and indeed many...

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e...

Irrelevant. If you have an account at a reputable online wallet like coinbase, you can cash out your bitcoin payments immediately for cash in your bank account (1% transaction cost, way less than paypal). Short term bitcoin price fluctuations might cost you fifty cents (or earn you fifty cents) here and there, but once a bitcoin transfer goes in the blockchain, it is permanent and irreversible. Nobody is making anybody keep bitcoin in their wallet, and the bitcoin are as liquid as cash in a paypal account.
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Jeff Michaud
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ipgyst wrote:
JeffyJeff wrote:
ipgyst wrote:
Bitcoin payments are permanent. I'm a long-term, honest, reliable seller, and I'd take a bitcoin transaction over paypal anyday.

I'm not a gambler and I definitely wouldn't, seems like a pyramid scheme, they can't even track down the guy who supposedly started it... but this is semi-off topic though probably belongs in a thread that probably already exists... and indeed many...

https://www.google.com/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&e...

Irrelevant. If you have an account at a reputable online wallet like coinbase, you can cash out your bitcoin payments immediately for cash in your bank account (1% transaction cost, way less than paypal). Short term bitcoin price fluctuations might cost you fifty cents (or earn you fifty cents) here and there, but once a bitcoin transfer goes in the blockchain, it is permanent and irreversible. Nobody is making anybody keep bitcoin in their wallet, and the bitcoin are as liquid as cash in a paypal account.
irrelevant not... and no, i'm not interested in any swamp land either
 
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