Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
13 Posts

Battlestar Galactica: The Board Game – Pegasus Expansion» Forums » Strategy

Subject: Is Dee overpowered? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Dan
United States
Lakewood
Washington
flag msg tools
mb
I don't have my copy of BSG here with me, so I was looking up the character sheets online, and the one I found for Dee I looked at, thought "that's ridiculous, that must be a fan-made sheet" until I found a character list and confirmed that those are, indeed, her stats. Now, to be fair, she is somewhat situational, but this is what I was looking at...

1) She is one of only 3 characters who can draw 3 Tactics, arguable the most commonly used skill cards. She is only one of 2 characters that will draw 3 every turn (barring Sick Bay).

2) Her Efficient ability, from what I can tell, could situationally be used to win or lose the game for Humans. With a lot of raiders/civies out, it would appear that an XO to her could either save the Humans for 2 raider activations, or else screw the Humans out of several population in one activation, depending on her alignment. I guess then if her loyalty was in question, it would seem a gamble, but she seems incredibly powerful in that respect.

The reason I thought this was a ridiculous fan-made card is because this ability looks like a somewhat weak OPG to me, not a "every time you activate Communications." It doesn't even say "on your turn" or "once per turn".

3) Her Fast Learner ability doesn't seem as powerful as say Adama's OPG or Boomer/Kara, but it is more versatile. This isn't why she's overpowered, but it doesn't hurt.

4) Her Negative ability is incredibly situational, potentially not too bad, and is unrelated to her positives.

4A) If morale never drops to 2 or less, her negative will never be used. Even then, it's close to the end of the game (most likely).

4B) You don't lose an extra morale. So you might end up losing some skill cards, but overall this seems fairly light. Compare with someone who has to discard every time they do something.

4C) Dee seems to be best at protecting/harming population. This means if morale is at 1 or 2, you don't need Dee. Granted, not too many people actually benefit morale, but if you're Human, Dee isn't vital to preventing a morale victory, and as a Cylon Dee won't help you drop morale any more. It might help serve as a reveal timer, though.

---

Overall, I think the first time we play Pegasus in my group, I'm going to want to try her, because I can see her ability either saving or costing the game for the Humans, depending on how it's used.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Ian Madsen
United States
Kearns
Utah
flag msg tools
Trains!
badge
Houseplant?
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
She only draws 1 Leadership, which makes it harder to draw an Executive Order reliably. Her OPT is very strong for her team, if she is a Cylon she often soft reveals by putting civilians in danger. Her OPG is okay. Her drawback is terrible, and I've seen humans purposefully allow Moral to fall just to get rid of a Cylon Dee.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kwijiboe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Hey!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The big reason she gets a monster 3 tactics draw in Pegasus is because of the new Tactics cards that come with the expansion. You mentioned how dangerous Dee is if she is XO'd. Well, what then do you think about her being able to XO herself?

The new Pegasus Tactics card Critical Situation allows her to do just that. But, a Cylon Dualla will have to wait for the perfect opportunity. Unless of course you're playing with New Caprica: where every Civilian ship in the game is put at risk beneath Galactica... With the Cylon fleet above. A double Action from Dee will send every Civilian ship to the other side.

Outside of New Caprica her OPT ability is less interesting: she has to wait for the right moment...that may never come.

Meanwhile, her downside makes Cylon Dee work to preserve the morale resource: which is a common Crisis target. As a human, losing her entire hand of skill cards is also important.

Her OPG is weak to compensate for the strength of her OPT. Although it still has it's uses: she can really hurt or help any skill check.

Overall, I don't believe she is overpowered. She's extremely boring under most circumstances: otherwise she's a one trick pony. Worse yet, a group can can completely incapacitate Cylon Dee by prohibiting Dee from sitting on Communications...because that's the only way she can do damage as a Cylon.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan
United States
Lakewood
Washington
flag msg tools
mb
Quote:
She only draws 1 Leadership, which makes it harder to draw an Executive Order reliably. Her OPT is very strong for her team, if she is a Cylon she often soft reveals by putting civilians in danger. Her OPG is okay. Her drawback is terrible, and I've seen humans purposefully allow Moral to fall just to get rid of a Cylon Dee.


It might be harder to draw an XO reliably, but of the Support, 2 draw 2 leadership, 2 draw 1, and 1 draws 0. I guess I see your point, but she is a good way to get tactics in if you have a tactics-light group.

It sounds like there would be easier ways to get rid of her, unless you’re at 3 or 4 already.

Quote:
The new Pegasus Tactics card Critical Situation allows her to do just that. But, a Cylon Dualla will have to wait for the perfect opportunity. Unless of course you're playing with New Caprica: where every Civilian ship in the game is put at risk beneath Galactica... With the Cylon fleet above. A double Action from Dee will send every Civilian ship to the other side.

Outside of New Caprica her OPT ability is less interesting: she has to wait for the right moment...that may never come.


From the FTF games with CACs I’ve played so far, that moment doesn’t seem too unlikely. Now, the moment where it’s 8+ is unlikely, but I don’t see it as unreasonable for her to put 3-5 in danger and still do massive damage (probably 4-5 population and 1 of another resource with 4 ships, for example) to the humans. Only time I could imagine it being terrible is if playing with CFB and a good CAG.

That said, I think there are other ways a hidden cylon could really screw over New Caprica, mostly via the admiral title. An unrevealed admiral could basically decimate the fleet.

Quote:
Meanwhile, her downside makes Cylon Dee work to preserve the morale resource: which is a common Crisis target. As a human, losing her entire hand of skill cards is also important.


If morale is low, that might be a time to reveal anyway, since you wouldn’t be able to affect morale as Dee. Regardless, morale hasn’t been the issue in the games I’ve played.

Losing your hand sucks, but the net loss of cards isn’t that bad compared to some characters that will end up dropping cards left or right. Although you still retain most of your hand in those cases, so I see your point.

Quote:
Overall, I don't believe she is overpowered. She's extremely boring under most circumstances: otherwise she's a one trick pony. Worse yet, a group can can completely incapacitate Cylon Dee by prohibiting Dee from sitting on Communications...because that's the only way she can do damage as a Cylon.


If it’s powerful enough that people don’t trust you to use it, then it’s overpowered
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Pieter
Netherlands
Maastricht
flag msg tools
Good intentions are no substitute for a good education.
badge
I take my fun very seriously.
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dee's OPT is powerful but not overpowered. Remember that someone in Communications on an XO can already move 4 civvies. It sometimes happens in BSG games that early on the jump track you get three CACs or so, which brings out too many civvies to move at once, and then Dee can be of great help. But such situations are rare.

There are different ways of dealing with CACs. You may want to try to wipe out the Cylons as a permanent solution, and then you need Starbuck or Hot Dog (or Apollo if he isn't too busy being President or Admiral). You might want to jump out as early as possible, and then you need characters good at scouting (Helo in particular). Or you might want to drag the civvies around Galactica, and then Dee is a good choice. It is all situational, just as Dee is situationally good.

Her 3 Tactics draw is pretty nice, though. The fact that she is very unlikely to become President or Admiral less so.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Giacomo Peroni
Italy
Milano
Unspecified
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Arcadious wrote:
She only draws 1 Leadership, which makes it harder to draw an Executive Order reliably. Her OPT is very strong for her team, if she is a Cylon she often soft reveals by putting civilians in danger. Her OPG is okay. Her drawback is terrible, and I've seen humans purposefully allow Moral to fall just to get rid of a Cylon Dee.


Humans dumping Morale to get rid of Dee can very easily regret it... She can and must reveal before being killed for Morale drop if she's a Cylon, and once revealed she can go for Morale, that is the easiest resource to reduce to 0 thanks to crises.

Back IT, Dee is quite powerful, but I think that there are more overpowered characters (new Helo, for example, but most of all Helena Cain).
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan
United States
Lakewood
Washington
flag msg tools
mb
From the PBF games I've seen, new Helo, Lee, and Zarek (although Zarek mostly because of the new mechanic) can be incredibly powerful.

Probably the best move I've seen on PBF was from Gaeta, though.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Stewart
United Kingdom
Newcastle-upon-Tyne
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
There are 4 characters with a triple Tactics draw - Tigh and Dee are unconditional; Cain and Anders are multi-skills and will both draw Tactics more often than not.


Dee's OPT makes herding Civilians more practical when you get an excess of Cylon attacks, but it's situational enough that it often won't come up. It also often will, but only as a slight efficiency boost, or as an alternative to an early Jump or to some space combat.

Also, in situations with lots of Civilians and an unrevealed Cylon, Dee may not get the XO to use her ability in either side's favour.


Dee's OPG is underwhelming, and her weakness often means making more of an effort to keep Morale high rather than letting it drop - Morale is comparable to Fuel in terms of how often it ends the game on 1 or 2...


If you're playing to New Caprica, Dee's OPT is even less powerful since it's only really relevant during the escape from New Caprica, and only if you need time to finish the evacuation.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kwijiboe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Hey!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Forgot to mention Hoshi. He makes Dee somewhat redundant.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dan
United States
Lakewood
Washington
flag msg tools
mb
Somewhat. He can activate up to 6 to move once, or move 2 up to 3 spaces. This would require an extra action and a discard.

Dee could activate up to 12 per action, meaning 1 action to move what it would take Hoshi 2 turns of (2 actions + 2 discards) to do.
Only thing Hoshi can do better with Communications is move 2 ships further in 1 turn.

Hoshi can use Command or Weapon's Control, though, which makes him more versatile. But I wouldn't say that he's anywhere close to what Dee can do with Communications unless there's very few ships out to begin with.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kwijiboe
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Hey!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think it's unlikely that all civilian ships will be in play.

New Caprica, OTOH, puts all civilian ships in play.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark L
Singapore
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mb
I've never seen all civilian ships prepped to space in New Caprica ever. Have you? Usually the humans prepare just enough ships to win.

On the other hand, two CACs can easily bring up five or six civilian ships in direct danger (zero or one space away from Raiders): therefore not requiring a Critical Situation from Cylon Dee to sabotage.

Again, you seem to be seeing very strange links between New Caprica and the Pegasus characters. The fact that you think that Cylon Dee wants to preserve Morale is especially strange. Just reveal with Morale at 3 if you want your Super Crisis, it's not hard. If anything, if the humans choose to tank Morale going to New Caprica, that's even worse for them.

It's also worth mentioning that Dee is very good with the CFB in play if the humans decide to go an escort-less strategy: human Dee can consolidate all civilians in one sector and keep them there for the entire game, freeing up a ton of Actions for Team Human. A single Calculations completely stops a Cylon Admiral from nuking that sector, after all. Of course, Dee has to remain human, which is why most players prefer not to use this strategy, but I think it's decent.

By far my favourite Support character to play, mostly for the triple Tactics draw. With Daybreak I really like Fast Learner + Second Chance.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
United States
SoCal
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Dee only getting 1 green isn't a problem for me, as sometimes, it's fun and advantageous to play "selfishly", human or cylon.

She has a decent chance at getting Calculations. Between that and SP, she can up to +3 any die roll, which helps even out the odds. All of the other support cards are nice too, like Jury Rigged, G&I, and AAC. Having a decent chance to Repair can come in handy in a pinch.

Dee is actually #2 on LoS amongst the non-Military Leaders, and this is with ALL chars. If there's only 1 milly, he gets brigged or reveals, Dee steps right up. If there are 2 of them, odds are less, but still a lot better than others. She's #14 on CAG, which ain't too shabby either.

As far as not having that many civvies on the board goes, you do get games where the CAC clump. If playing with CFB, not being able to keep up on escorting them isn't as bad since she can buy more time, as others can only move up to 4 per XO. Bait treachery card from Daybreak consistently puts them out, so it can be a saver to move all 3 to 8 civvies at once away from raiders. There are also various text effects that put out civvies.

I've seen a game where Dee got herself killed on purpose via her weakness so she can get a jump start on revealed cylon turns. Sometimes, one turn sooner makes all the difference in this game.

Jammed Assault CAC provides some kicks and giggles, as Communications Jamming keeps Dee from using her special.

Given all the support chars, I'll go for Dee over Cally practically any day. Cally's special only works on her turn, which is bad with more players, and even more so if her crisis draw wasn't a skill check. I won't use Galen unless there's at least 1 expansion, but by definition, having Dee in also includes Peg skill cards.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.