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Subject: LOTR LCG Duplicate Tournament #3: Over the Misty Mountains Grim rss

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Gene Moore
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In March, an experiment was proposed by...
George Leoniak
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...to see what would happen if multiple people played the same scenario, using the same heroes and the same encounter and player decks, with all of the cards arranged in the exact same order. Would we all play it exactly the same way, or would we make different choices, and how would those choices affect the game?

The result was the first ever LOTR LCG Duplicate Tournament on BGG. 18 people participated, and a fun time was had by all. We played the Passage Through Mirkwood scenario, with the Leadership starter deck from the core set (Aragorn, Theodred, Gloin). The final scores ranged from 55 to 99, showing that people indeed took very different strategies for this simple quest.

In April, we traveled Into The Pit, and the results of our second duplicate tournament were just as fascinating as the first. So, I think we'll make this a regular event.

For June's tournament, we are playing Over the Misty Mountains Grim, the second scenario from the Over Hill and Under Hill Hobbit saga expansion. The available cards for the player deck will come from the core set and both Hobbit saga expansions: Over Hill and Under Hill, and On the Doorstep.

We'll start on Monday, June 16th, and everyone will need to have their reports posted by Friday, June 27th.

Unlike the previous tournaments, there is no GeekGold up for grabs in this one, but tips are certainly appreciated.

If you want in, just respond to this thread to let me know. Also, let's get a discussion going about how the player deck should be constructed.

EDIT: Changed tournament dates
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Gene Moore
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General Tournament Rules

Honor System - Don't cheat. Even though it's possible to cheat, there's no reason to do so. There is no big prize to win. The purpose of this tournament is to see how player decisions affect the game, when all other conditions are equal. Just play the game and have fun.

No Shuffling - The format of this tournament relies on everyone seeing the same encounter and player cards, in the same order. Therefore, any situation where shuffling would occur is either handled in a special way, or removed entirely. Along those lines...

No Mulligans - There's no good way that I know of to make it work. Besides, if some people take a mulligan while others don't, then not everyone is playing with the same arrangement of cards, which defeats the "duplicate" purpose.

Spoiler Code - In this thread, there will be a post containing the exact arrangement of the encounter deck and player deck. It will be formatted with spoiler code, so that you can click through each card one at a time, as though you were drawing them from the deck. For example:

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Sneak Attack
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Miner of the Iron Hills

Remember that shadow cards are dealt to enemies in order of engagement cost (highest to lowest), so you may need to skip around the list according to the order that you choose to resolve attacks.

When you post your play-through in this thread, please also wrap it with spoiler code, so that nobody will accidentally see the card order before the end of the tournament.

Removing Cards from the Deck - Some situations call for a card to be removed from a deck, and then the deck is shuffled. In this tournament, there is no shuffling, so if/when you draw a card that has already been removed, just ignore it and draw the next card. (If there are multiple copies of the card, then assume that what was drawn was one of the other copies, until there are no copies of that card left.)

Exhausting the Encounter Deck - Unlike the normal gameplay rules, if the encounter deck runs out of cards, and a card is needed for staging, then the player has lost the game.

Over the Misty Mountains Grim Special Rules

Over the Misty Mountains Grim uses two different encounter decks. The "Exhausting the Encounter Deck" rule applies to each encounter deck individually.

There are three cards that can cause cards to be added back into the encounter deck: Galloping Boulders, Cave Entrance, and A Suspicious Crow.

The shadow effect for Galloping Boulders reads: "Put this card on top of the encounter deck." When this happens, remember that the next card you draw will be Galloping Boulders, instead of a card from the spoiler list.

Cave Entrance, when in the staging area, will cause a card to be moved from the discard pile to the bottom of the encounter deck, at the end of the round. When you run out of cards in the spoiler list, remember to draw from the cards that were previously moved to the bottom because of Cave Entrance.

The shadow effect for A Suspicious Crow reads: "If this attack deals at least 1 damage, shuffle this card back into the encounter deck." For the purposes of this tournament, the new shadow effect for this card is: "If this attack deals at least 1 damage, place this card on the bottom of the encounter deck."

Over the Misty Mountains Grim Player Cards

Hero
Thorin Oakenshield
Ori
Bombur
Bilbo Baggins

Ally
3 x Bifur
1 x Brok Ironfist
3 x Dori
2 x Erebor Hammersmith
3 x Fili
3 x Gandalf (core set version)
3 x Gloin
1 x Kili
2 x Longbeard Orc Slayer
2 x Miner of the Iron Hills

Attachment
3 x Cram
2 x Forest Snare
2 x Protector of Lorien
2 x Self Preservation
2 x Steward of Gondor

Event
3 x A Very Good Tale
3 x Burglar Baggins
3 x Expecting Mischief
2 x Radagast's Cunning
2 x Sneak Attack
3 x To Me! O My Kinsfolk!

Treasure
1 x Glamdring
1 x Orcrist
1 x Sting

Over the Misty Mountains Grim Tournament Decks

Player Deck
Encounter Deck #1 (Quest Phase 1 & 2)
Encounter Deck #2 (Quest Phase 3)
 
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Ian Martin
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Count me in!
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Matt Hindmarch
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In.
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George Leoniak
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In. Thanks for keeping it going.
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Kelly B
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In for the first time, thank you!
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Chris Gordy
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Do we have any idea which decks we will be pulling from? I have yet to purchase everything (I currently have through the dwarrowdelf decks). I don't have The Hobbit Sage Expansions yet, but if it is only the first that I would need then I could be interested.
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Gene Moore
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Gumps wrote:
Do we have any idea which decks we will be pulling from? I have yet to purchase everything (I currently have through the dwarrowdelf decks). I don't have The Hobbit Sage Expansions yet, but if it is only the first that I would need then I could be interested.

It will be both Hobbit saga expansions, in addition to the core set.
 
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Francois Fressin
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In - I love these challenges.

The only thing that LOTR:LCG needs to be the best experience it could be is a little organized competition.
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Jon Ben
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Of course I've been up all night! Not because of caffeine, it was insomnia. I couldn't stop thinking about coffee.
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In! I'm not sure how I missed the 2nd one, but I want back in. Thanks for organizing
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Daniel Tello
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I'll play this one too.thumbsup
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Gene Moore
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It has been a while since I played any of the Hobbit scenarios, but I remember that my favorite deck at the time was actually a 4-sphere deck, with Thorin, Nori (pre-nerf) and Oin. Should we dare to be that bold this time?
 
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Mighty Rauros
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In!
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A suggestion for this time around:

Since it seems, for the intro, that there is more room for ambiguity, what if potential problem cards had the "don't forget to..." note in their spoiler box? Won't work for everything, but may curtail some foreseeable problems.
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Gene Moore
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jrsinor wrote:
A suggestion for this time around:

Since it seems, for the intro, that there is more room for ambiguity, what if potential problem cards had the "don't forget to..." note in their spoiler box? Won't work for everything, but may curtail some foreseeable problems.

I can do that.

EDIT: I'll probably just include a link back to the special rules, because I don't want the spoiler box to be too big, and give information away.
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Josh Walton
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So in. I love these!
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Gene Moore
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The subscription list is now available for future tournaments.

LOTR LCG Duplicate Tournament Subscription List
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Tim Rogers
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I'm in! Thanks again for organizing.
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Gene Moore
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I remember building a Leadership/Lore dwarf deck for my wife last year, which had Thorin, Ori, and Bombur. It worked out quite nicely. Once a dwarf ally hit the table, the resource advantage and card advantage were very useful. Any objections to using this set for the tournament?
 
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Jon Ben
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lwdgames wrote:
I remember building a Leadership/Lore dwarf deck for my wife last year, which had Thorin, Ori, and Bombur. It worked out quite nicely. Once a dwarf ally hit the table, the resource advantage and card advantage were very useful. Any objections to using this set for the tournament?


That sounds good to me. This was the era of the strong Dwarf deck
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David Lichtenstein
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I'm in.
I'll be picking up On the Doorstep on the 17th, so I won't have much time to practice with those cards.

So nervous.... gulp
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Gene Moore
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I'm going to adjust the dates a bit. I won't have time to get everything together by this Friday, but I should be able to take care of it over the weekend. Plus, I want to give any late-comers enough time to play.

Let's run it from Monday, June 16th through Friday, June 27th.
 
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Sander Engels
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lwdgames wrote:
I'm going to adjust the dates a bit. I won't have time to get everything together by this Friday, but I should be able to take care of it over the weekend. Plus, I want to give any late-comers enough time to play.

Let's run it from Monday, June 16th through Friday, June 27th.

Nice. I'm in!
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Gene Moore
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Here's my initial idea for the player deck:

Hero
Thorin Oakenshield
Ori
Bombur

Ally
1 x Brok Ironfist
3 x Daughter of the Nimrodel
3 x Dori
2 x Erebor Hammersmith
3 x Fili
3 x Gandalf
3 x Gloin
1 x Kili
2 x Longbeard Orc Slayer
2 x Miner of the Iron Hills

Attachment
3 x Cram
2 x Forest Snare
3 x King Under the Mountain
2 x Protector of Lorien
2 x Self Preservation
2 x Steward of Gondor

Event
3 x A Very Good Tale
3 x Expecting Mischief
2 x Radagast's Cunning
2 x Sneak Attack
3 x To Me! O My Kinsfolk!

We will also pretend that we've already defeated the trolls, and include Glamdring, Orcrist, and Sting.

I considered including either Burglar Baggins or The Lucky Number, but I don't know which cards would get the axe to make room.

Any thoughts? Should we add one of the Baggins cards, and if so, what gets cut? Or, do you think I'm completely out of line with this deck?
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Jon Ben
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lwdgames wrote:
Here's my initial idea for the player deck:

Hero
Thorin Oakenshield
Ori
Bombur

Ally
1 x Brok Ironfist
3 x Daughter of the Nimrodel
3 x Dori
2 x Erebor Hammersmith
3 x Fili
3 x Gandalf
3 x Gloin
1 x Kili
2 x Longbeard Orc Slayer
2 x Miner of the Iron Hills

Attachment
3 x Cram
2 x Forest Snare
3 x King Under the Mountain
2 x Protector of Lorien
2 x Self Preservation
2 x Steward of Gondor

Event
3 x A Very Good Tale
3 x Expecting Mischief
2 x Radagast's Cunning
2 x Sneak Attack
3 x To Me! O My Kinsfolk!

We will also pretend that we've already defeated the trolls, and include Glamdring, Orcrist, and Sting.

I considered including either Burglar Baggins or The Lucky Number, but I don't know which cards would get the axe to make room.

Any thoughts? Should we add one of the Baggins cards, and if so, what gets cut? Or, do you think I'm completely out of line with this deck?


Which Gandalf?

Given the format of these events you could go beyond the card limits of a single core set. As long as you can put the deck together it's fine, if all three copies of something happen to get drawn and I don't own all three I can simply use a post-it note or something.

The deck looks good. I'm sure everyone will have a different opinion so take the following observation with a grain of salt: Since Ally/Attachment cards are a bit expensive I would consider ditching Self Preservation and Daughter of the Nimrodel in favour of Lore of Imladris and Warden of Healing. If it's the "Hobbit" Gandalf you might also consider squeezing Ever Vigilant in there somehow.

I don't think the Baggins event cards are necessary. I'm not even sure we are legally allowed to add The Lucky Number since it's from OtD.
 
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