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Star Trek: Attack Wing» Forums » Variants

Subject: Abramsverse Ships -- will they appear? rss

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David Griffin
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I see some mirror ships are expected to appear. I have 4 very nice minis for the Abramsverse ships and that made me curious if we're likely to see them in Attack wing. I'm not a big fan of the two latest movies, BUT I'm kind of intrigued with the ships. The movie leaves me clueless as to how they are armed exactly. And rumors have it that the new Constitution (and by implication all the ships) are MUCH bigger than standard. The Connie is supposed to be longer than the Galaxy.

I was toying with the idea of using the Connie mini (which IS longer than the Galaxy) as a Galaxy class ship in non OP. I'm dying to know what your speculation is on these ships and how they would be spec'd if they did hit the table (presumably these and the mirror ships would make occasional guest appearances in the ST prime universe).

I'm guessing that the Abramsverse ships AND the mirror federation would use common design principals -- LOTS of firepower to the expense of the balanced design that gets my Feds regularly destroyed. The Vengeance could be the most powerful ship in the game -- basically a Galaxy class designed by Klingons.
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David Griffin
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Oops I note that this was already discussed. I'm not defending the movies, they were so implausible they kept me in stitches nearly through Into Darkness but though I like the regular Connie better, I like the revised one too and I think the Feds NEED an equalizer and a double sized Connie and/or the Vengeance might do the job. Anyway, hope no-one is too upset with me for raising this again.

I don't want the movies, but I WOULD like the ships.
 
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David Griffin
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Sorry about the double image. No after how I post this it ends up upside down. Not sure why, maybe someone could enlighten me. it's from my iPhone. I figured if I combined the images, no matter how it uploaded them you could see one side right side up.
 
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George Barnes
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Without knowing the licensing involved with attack wing I vote against. I would prefer seeing ships from some of the star trek video games first.

Before they get there though they have lots of ships to go.
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carbon_dragon wrote:

I was toying with the idea of using the Connie mini (which IS longer than the Galaxy)


It was actually designed to be approximately the correct size (~300m), and somewhere someone along the line (probably an executive who knew nothing about the source material) decided it needed to be bigger so they got the size doubled. Some of the visual effects shots seem to have been finished before that particular bone-headed decision was made, as at times it seems to be the correct size.

From a plausibility perspective, since the dimensions are never stated onscreen, in this case its best to just assume that the size is similar to the original or the refit. There is no logical reason why they would suddenly build such a massive ship (that is otherwise nearly identical in design to the original). In the context of the film, the Vengeance being a Galaxy-sized ship is more believable.
 
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My understanding was that they were basically scaling everything up 2X-ish because they didn't want to have to make everything bigger on the inside. They looked at what was supposed to be inside the ship and what space they had in a 300m ship and called BS. SO they just scaled everything up.

So I would assume that an Abrhamsverse Galaxy would be something like 1600m+ long.
 
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Church14 wrote:
My understanding was that they were basically scaling everything up 2X-ish because they didn't want to have to make everything bigger on the inside. They looked at what was supposed to be inside the ship and what space they had in a 300m ship and called BS. SO they just scaled everything up.

So I would assume that an Abrhamsverse Galaxy would be something like 1600m+ long.


The shuttle bay set appeared to be too large (it is). Most everything else is sized appropriately for the correct dimensions. Its pretty nonsensical, as there is no reason for the starship development to take such a sudden and large leap forward while at the same time coming up with exactly the same ship, simply scaled up 2x.

Its just better to assume the silly 700m measurement is woefully incorrect. Excepting the shuttlebay scene (which can be ignored -- there are instances through the shows/movies where certain ships/scenes were scaled wrong), the ship interally appears more consistent with the correct 300m size. For example, the bridge is too small to fit the area it supposedly fills on the ship if the model is scaled up 2x, whereas its about what you'd expect at the normal size.
 
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C. E. Freeman
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Umm. You all know its a fictional universe right? There was time travel multiple versions of characters. who knows what else. If the scale gets a little fuzzy somewhere along the line it's no big deal. It's not like someone is rewriting history. I know I probably broke some kind of Trekkie law by saying that and will probably get flamed, but come on guys it's entertainment.

I hope we get the Vengence with a new Khan, this one is much more menacing than the original and an Admiral Marcus. I'd like a another Enterprise with the younger less experienced version of the crew from Abram's movies. Both of the new movies were great, I'd like to see them in the game.
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Tacullu64 wrote:
Umm. You all know its a fictional universe right? There was time travel multiple versions of characters. who knows what else. If the scale gets a little fuzzy somewhere along the line it's no big deal. It's not like someone is rewriting history. I know I probably broke some kind of Trekkie law by saying that and will probably get flamed, but come on guys it's entertainment.


That really has no bearing on what I said. Though to your point, even a fictional universe has some form of logical consistency. If it wants to be any good, at any rate. For example, Harry Potter obviously has many inconsistencies with the real world, but it has its own set of concepts and rules which it does consistently follow. Typically, Star Trek has done that -- at least starting with somewhere during TNG when it became evident that it mattered. Obviously in 700 hours of shows/movies, there are some issues simply because its one massive entertainment enterprise. Which is all quite different from "we're going to just scale the Enterprise up in this otherwise identical universe (prior to the point of departure) by 2x because we can." There really is no rational in-universe explanation for it, so its just best to assume what the designers of the "new" ship intended -- that it is in fact 300m.
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David Griffin
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No the "new" universe makes no sense for so many reasons, I won't list them, but if you look online you'll see some well thought out lists.

That said, my only conclusion is that this is not the prime universe to start with and never was. The time travel changed THEIR universe but had no relation to the universe Star Trek has inhabited traditionally. The two are no more related than the Mirror Universe is to the prime universe. Of course some of the things that happened in the Enterprise universe could make the same claim, but that is another rant.

So THIS universe started off more militaristic since even the "smaller" ship, the Kelvin, was larger with 800 crew. After the paddling they took from the "mining" ship which then disappeared, Starfleet got to work building more and bigger ships, resulting in the scale increase. Old spock isn't our Spock, he's from their future, now a dead timeline.

At least that's one way to look at it. If we saw those ships, that universe could be anything and that explains the odd imperfect mirroring of what we expect in our universe.

And the real reason is that Abrams is pretty much a moron who cares even less about consistency than the the people running Star Trek in the series (which is saying something). It's up to us to try to make it make sense if that is even possible.

I liked the ships though, even the new Constitution, though I prefer the old Constitution. I like the new one as a variant. And if it gets me victory over the Klingons and the Borg I'll take the 725ft Constitution and the 1200+ feet (or bigger) Vengeance. I hope it's armed to the teeth. Run for it Borg, your days are numbered.
 
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I hope so, as I do like the look of some of the ships.

In regards to the size of the USS Enterprise in the Abrams films, I have heard that the appearance of the Narada, which massivaly out classed anything of that time, essentially caused an Arms Race that makes the cold war look tame. Just look at the USS Vengeance from Into Darkness, this arms race is the reason it was even built.

Edit - nerfed by my own slow typing...
 
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carbon_dragon wrote:

And the real reason is that Abrams is pretty much a moron who cares even less about consistency than the the people running Star Trek in the series (which is saying something). It's up to us to try to make it make sense if that is even possible.


The people that ran the series did care about consistency after a certain point. The official chronology and encyclopedia were originally internal to help guide the writers before they were published. That said, not everyone cared, and sometimes even when they did they threw it out for dramatic effect/because something looked cool (see: the scaled up Jem'Hadar battleship from What You Leave Behind).

Quote:
In regards to the size of the USS Enterprise in the Abrams films, I have heard that the appearance of the Narada, which massivaly out classed anything of that time, essentially caused an Arms Race that makes the cold war look tame. Just look at the USS Vengeance from Into Darkness, this arms race is the reason it was even built.


Which is a common excuse, but it really doesn't make any sense. For one, Starfleet often encountered large, dangerous threats and didn't suddenly scale up all their ships in the prime universe (the increase in size from Constitution to Galaxy/Sovereign was a much slower and natural process involving many intervening ship designs).

Secondly, let's set that fact aside and assume something like that would happen. It would still have to be within the technological capability of the Federation to develop at that time, even if they were doing greater research into it (which, based on what we see of Starfleet, they still seem to be exploration focused in the aftermath of the Narada attack so....). But assuming that is also true, a bigger new ship design is pretty unlikely to be nearly identical to the smaller exploration style Constitution from the prime universe. It would be a completely different development path.

Quote:
That said, my only conclusion is that this is not the prime universe to start with and never was. The time travel changed THEIR universe but had no relation to the universe Star Trek has inhabited traditionally. The two are no more related than the Mirror Universe is to the prime universe. Of course some of the things that happened in the Enterprise universe could make the same claim, but that is another rant.


That's a possible interpretation as well, though in making the film they were seeming to try to say that it was the same prior to the Narada being sent back, at which point it split off from the prime universe.

But yes, he just had no concept of the original material and basically was just doing whatever he wanted.
 
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Geoff Speare
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carbon_dragon wrote:
Sorry about the double image. No after how I post this it ends up upside down. Not sure why, maybe someone could enlighten me. it's from my iPhone. I figured if I combined the images, no matter how it uploaded them you could see one side right side up.


Probably not enough lens flare.
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Thomas Ryan
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where did you get those ships? I know they made a "hot wheels" version of the 1701, Kelvin, and Vengance but I didn't see any other JJverse ships on the interwebz.
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yourmonkey06 wrote:
Tacullu64 wrote:
Umm. You all know its a fictional universe right? There was time travel multiple versions of characters. who knows what else. If the scale gets a little fuzzy somewhere along the line it's no big deal. It's not like someone is rewriting history. I know I probably broke some kind of Trekkie law by saying that and will probably get flamed, but come on guys it's entertainment.


That really has no bearing on what I said. Though to your point, even a fictional universe has some form of logical consistency. If it wants to be any good, at any rate. For example, Harry Potter obviously has many inconsistencies with the real world, but it has its own set of concepts and rules which it does consistently follow. Typically, Star Trek has done that -- at least starting with somewhere during TNG when it became evident that it mattered. Obviously in 700 hours of shows/movies, there are some issues simply because its one massive entertainment enterprise. Which is all quite different from "we're going to just scale the Enterprise up in this otherwise identical universe (prior to the point of departure) by 2x because we can." There really is no rational in-universe explanation for it, so its just best to assume what the designers of the "new" ship intended -- that it is in fact 300m.


The logical reasoning is that they adapted some Tardis Technology into the new ship to make it larger on the inside than on the outside. Silly
 
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Ender02 wrote:
yourmonkey06 wrote:
Tacullu64 wrote:
Umm. You all know its a fictional universe right? There was time travel multiple versions of characters. who knows what else. If the scale gets a little fuzzy somewhere along the line it's no big deal. It's not like someone is rewriting history. I know I probably broke some kind of Trekkie law by saying that and will probably get flamed, but come on guys it's entertainment.


That really has no bearing on what I said. Though to your point, even a fictional universe has some form of logical consistency. If it wants to be any good, at any rate. For example, Harry Potter obviously has many inconsistencies with the real world, but it has its own set of concepts and rules which it does consistently follow. Typically, Star Trek has done that -- at least starting with somewhere during TNG when it became evident that it mattered. Obviously in 700 hours of shows/movies, there are some issues simply because its one massive entertainment enterprise. Which is all quite different from "we're going to just scale the Enterprise up in this otherwise identical universe (prior to the point of departure) by 2x because we can." There really is no rational in-universe explanation for it, so its just best to assume what the designers of the "new" ship intended -- that it is in fact 300m.


The logical reasoning is that they adapted some Tardis Technology into the new ship to make it larger on the inside than on the outside. Silly


Of course, the most obvious answer!
 
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David Griffin
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tpryan01 wrote:
where did you get those ships? I know they made a "hot wheels" version of the 1701, Kelvin, and Vengance but I didn't see any other JJverse ships on the interwebz.


There's a guy on the internet who carves all kinds of ships (including sea going ships) out of balsa and sometimes he sells them. I bought a bunch of them from him over the years. They're little works of art which is why I'd like to see them on the table once anyway. I don't think he's doing much selling these days and he's doing more historical ships too.
 
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yourmonkey06 wrote:
[q="carbon_dragon"]

But yes, he just had no concept of the original material and basically was just doing whatever he wanted.


Yeah that's right, but I need more powerful ships to beat the Klingons!
 
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