Recommend
30 
 Thumb up
 Hide
36 Posts
1 , 2  Next »   | 

Heroes of Normandie» Forums » Reviews

Subject: help you decide if HON is for you. rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
sacha cauvin
France
rouen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
i havent done a lot of reviews on BGG (but plenty elsewhere) but i think it is time for a HON review.

it won't be a complete review but rather one to help you decide if Heroes is for you or not.

Lets start with what i have played and still like: in my youth i played Squad Leader to death (not the advanced version) ands lots of classic Avalon hill games.

Later on i got into Space Hulk and that was my first step into playing with miniatures. having an Aliens theme helped a lot..

At college we also played a lot of Chtulhu RPG till late at night while also experimenting with games like Storm Over Normandy

To make a long story short, later on i got involved as a scenario writer for Axis & Allies Miniatures and played Tide of Iron a lot too. Finally i played a lot of Dust Tactics.

the setting is set, you might already know if Heroes of Normandie is for you.


back ground:
HON is a tactical wargame with a Hollywood style back story. Normandie 44, you are fighting the german forces in the Bocage.
usually a battle will involve a couple of squads with a leader, or hero against an enemy with equal force.

components:
if you are familiar with tide of iron the boards are of similar quality. actually when opening the heavy but smaller box it feels like opening TOI but without the miniatures.
dont be mislead, the box has lots of punchboards including lots of units (matériel, leaders, squads, tanks, order tokens, cards, tiles, etc...) and the art work is great, hollywood style!

rules:
the game comes with two booklets, one is for scenarios and much like squad leader they step by step introduce you to new units ;i suggest you play them first as they are like a video game tutorial.
all is in full color with lots of examples.

The second one is the rule book.
What can i say?
Very clear, lots of examples, well organized, and fun to read even if you do not own the game.

playing:
this is when it gets interesting.
i had read the rules beforehand but nothing feels like the first time right?

again i can't stress enough to get back to the scenario rule book, just like squad leader.
i played scenario 1 to 4 in a row (well actually i played 1 twice) and after that i was confident that
-i liked the game
-i liked the game enough to play D Day scenario 1
-And then play Achtung Chtulhu scenario 1 too! (yes i kickstarted the game).

basically your squad template (as indicated by the scenario i am not yet ready to build my armies and maps) allows you a certain amount of "actions". of course you have more units than orders!
All orders are numbered for one to... depending on your number of leaders (mainly) plus you also have a blank order for bluffing...

with an order you can either move or shoot, then your opponent does the same. I go U go style.

But now let me introduce the cards.

Cards are various, just like Tide of iron, you have artillery or air cards (havent played with them yet) and also cards that let you move units faster, cancel enemy cards, fire + move (not allowed otherwise), rerol dice, bring back Hitlerjugend, better your fire and much more.

again, just like orders, you have more cards available than allowed. you have to select 40 only. this will help boost the Bluff aspect.

combat:

you got it, this is a wargame, so how is combat?

each unit has a defense value that can be modified by terrain (for infantry) or armor for vehicles.
you roll a die (roll two and keep the best one if your infantry is close assaulting) add cards and bonuses. if you hit hard enough destroy or weaken your enemy (who can also play cards).

straight enough.

again the rules are clear and the counters all bear symbols to remind you what your units can do.

conclusion:
pros:
-historical
-awesome artwork
-clear rules
-fun to play
-fast playing for 150-250 point games
-lots of expansions coming out

cons:
-lots of special abilities (squad leader style)
-set up time can be heavy if you dont sort out your units properly . which i did after a few games
-for hollywood style wargame heads (i.e.: NOT squad leader)
-need to play the tutorial to fully grasp the game.

My own conclusion:
i have not covered the whole game but i am already begging for more.
i have played the Acthung cthulhu punchboard too and i enjoyed very much seeing 4th Infantry division fighting it out with zombies...goo


37 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phil McDonald
England
Staffordshire
UK
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
You are the first person to suggest the game has clear rules. Perhaps that is because you are using a native language ruleset.

I would say that the game is intuitive once you get past the rulebook.
13 
 Thumb up
0.05
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
D S
Germany
Senftenberg
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
philmcd wrote:
You are the first person to suggest the game has clear rules. Perhaps that is because you are using a native language ruleset.

I would say that the game is intuitive once you get past the rulebook.


While I won't say anything against your second statement - it's true enough - I suppose I so am the second person saying that the rules are (very) clearly written. Up til now I have found all answers to any question I had. The rules are not written in a style where part of the rules are repeated in other parts - in general you find every rule just in one place, at maximum a reference towards a side number. But that avoids incongruencies.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phil McDonald
England
Staffordshire
UK
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Bloody Gauntlet wrote:
philmcd wrote:
You are the first person to suggest the game has clear rules. Perhaps that is because you are using a native language ruleset.

I would say that the game is intuitive once you get past the rulebook.


While I won't say anything against your second statement - it's true enough - I suppose I so am the second person saying that the rules are (very) clearly written. Up til now I have found all answers to any question I had. The rules are not written in a style where part of the rules are repeated in other parts - in general you find every rule just in one place, at maximum a reference towards a side number. But that avoids incongruencies.


The rules (at least in English) are not clear. There are visual examples that are not even explained. As has been said elsewhere, the rulebook feels more like a rules summary sheet. Far from the worst rulebook I've read but certainly below average. Take a look at the Conflict of Heroes rulebook. That is the standard all rulebooks should be judged against, even though the game itself isn't as good as HoN.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allan Doyle

Virginia
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
I had no issues with learning the game from the rule book. I feel it does a great job of explaining and teaching the basic concepts of the game.

There are a few obscure rules that need to be hammered out. (ZoC, towing) But nothing that will prevent you from completing games.


Which rules are you having issues understanding?
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Arthur chang
United States
TUSTIN
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I didn't have any problems with the printed rulebook in the game box either. Sure, there were a few things left out and ambiguities, but they were nothing significant that prevented me from enjoying my first learning game, unlike many other games out there that are a frustrating experience with really bad rules.

Also they were cleared up in the v1.1 rules very quickly.

My main complaint so far is that most cards (taking out the artillery, aircraft, etc for the first few scenarios) seem to all be suppression or mitigation for it, which didn't happen as much in the first few missions so the cards seemed to not be very useful for the game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
sacha cauvin
France
rouen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
+1

Exactly, And all abilities have a page number next to them.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dr Who
msg tools
mb
cons:
-for hollywood style wargame heads (i.e.: NOT squad leader)

-- Thought the box cover gave that away.

Not sure how it's a con...when it's just a style of play.
I guess it's a con, cause it's not your game play type.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
sacha cauvin
France
rouen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DrWhoWho wrote:
cons:
-for hollywood style wargame heads (i.e.: NOT squad leader)

-- Thought the box cover gave that away.

Not sure how it's a con...when it's just a style of play.
I guess it's a con, cause it's not your game play type.



Actually i like it very much but some of my friends Will find too light And funny if you see what i mean.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dr Who
msg tools
mb
general hoth wrote:
DrWhoWho wrote:
cons:
-for hollywood style wargame heads (i.e.: NOT squad leader)

-- Thought the box cover gave that away.

Not sure how it's a con...when it's just a style of play.
I guess it's a con, cause it's not your game play type.



Actually i like it very much but some of my friends Will find too light And funny if you see what i mean.


No not really.

I think better care needs to be done with reviews.

You can't give a CON to the game just cause it doesn't fit what you are looking for, or what you enjoy etc.

If that portion of the game does not work well within the game, then a Pro/Con can be given.

You can't fault a game for not meeting your expectations in terms of game play mechanics, (e.g. I really don't care if you like the 'Hollywood' style or not....nor can you give it a pro/con cause you might lean to a more realistic approach. That's just your personal choice and really shouldn't be part of the review when judging the game on its' merits. Use that in a personal section of a review perhaps.)

I see this done very often in reviews here....people should take more time instead of simply getting something posted.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phil McDonald
England
Staffordshire
UK
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
DrWhoWho wrote:
general hoth wrote:
DrWhoWho wrote:
cons:
-for hollywood style wargame heads (i.e.: NOT squad leader)

-- Thought the box cover gave that away.

Not sure how it's a con...when it's just a style of play.
I guess it's a con, cause it's not your game play type.



Actually i like it very much but some of my friends Will find too light And funny if you see what i mean.


No not really.

I think better care needs to be done with reviews.

You can't give a CON to the game just cause it doesn't fit what you are looking for, or what you enjoy etc.

If that portion of the game does not work well within the game, then a Pro/Con can be given.

You can't fault a game for not meeting your expectations in terms of game play mechanics, (e.g. I really don't care if you like the 'Hollywood' style or not....nor can you give it a pro/con cause you might lean to a more realistic approach. That's just your personal choice and really shouldn't be part of the review when judging the game on its' merits. Use that in a personal section of a review perhaps.)

I see this done very often in reviews here....people should take more time instead of simply getting something posted.


I completely agree with the points you make, but I would have phrased it in a friendlier way, as he did qualify that it was his opinion and not a problem with the game itself, so they were personal pros and cons, which would be fine if it wasn't in the review section, which generally speaking should mostly be about fact rather than personal taste. But then, not everyone will know that.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Zheng Xuan
Singapore
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmb
philmcd wrote:
DrWhoWho wrote:
general hoth wrote:
DrWhoWho wrote:
cons:
-for hollywood style wargame heads (i.e.: NOT squad leader)

-- Thought the box cover gave that away.

Not sure how it's a con...when it's just a style of play.
I guess it's a con, cause it's not your game play type.



Actually i like it very much but some of my friends Will find too light And funny if you see what i mean.


No not really.

I think better care needs to be done with reviews.

You can't give a CON to the game just cause it doesn't fit what you are looking for, or what you enjoy etc.

If that portion of the game does not work well within the game, then a Pro/Con can be given.

You can't fault a game for not meeting your expectations in terms of game play mechanics, (e.g. I really don't care if you like the 'Hollywood' style or not....nor can you give it a pro/con cause you might lean to a more realistic approach. That's just your personal choice and really shouldn't be part of the review when judging the game on its' merits. Use that in a personal section of a review perhaps.)

I see this done very often in reviews here....people should take more time instead of simply getting something posted.


I completely agree with the points you make, but I would have phrased it in a friendlier way, as he did qualify that it was his opinion and not a problem with the game itself, so they were personal pros and cons, which would be fine if it wasn't in the review section, which generally speaking should mostly be about fact rather than personal taste. But then, not everyone will know that.


isn't the point of a review to get someone's opinion of a game? Even if the reviewer thinks that a portion of the game does not work well, that is still his opinion. Others might not agree that it does not work well. How can any of this be hard facts? Try reading the rulebook instead if you want facts without any personal opinions to go with it.
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phil McDonald
England
Staffordshire
UK
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Zexius wrote:
philmcd wrote:
DrWhoWho wrote:
general hoth wrote:
DrWhoWho wrote:
cons:
-for hollywood style wargame heads (i.e.: NOT squad leader)

-- Thought the box cover gave that away.

Not sure how it's a con...when it's just a style of play.
I guess it's a con, cause it's not your game play type.



Actually i like it very much but some of my friends Will find too light And funny if you see what i mean.


No not really.

I think better care needs to be done with reviews.

You can't give a CON to the game just cause it doesn't fit what you are looking for, or what you enjoy etc.

If that portion of the game does not work well within the game, then a Pro/Con can be given.

You can't fault a game for not meeting your expectations in terms of game play mechanics, (e.g. I really don't care if you like the 'Hollywood' style or not....nor can you give it a pro/con cause you might lean to a more realistic approach. That's just your personal choice and really shouldn't be part of the review when judging the game on its' merits. Use that in a personal section of a review perhaps.)

I see this done very often in reviews here....people should take more time instead of simply getting something posted.


I completely agree with the points you make, but I would have phrased it in a friendlier way, as he did qualify that it was his opinion and not a problem with the game itself, so they were personal pros and cons, which would be fine if it wasn't in the review section, which generally speaking should mostly be about fact rather than personal taste. But then, not everyone will know that.


isn't the point of a review to get someone's opinion of a game? Even if the reviewer thinks that a portion of the game does not work well, that is still his opinion. Others might not agree that it does not work well. How can any of this be hard facts? Try reading the rulebook instead if you want facts without any personal opinions to go with it.


'Traditionally' reviews are a factual analysis of the game, style, components, unique features, replayability etc without letting personal bias interfere.

Then at the end a personal summary of personal likes and dislikes and some flavour. Possibly adding what kind of players might and might not like the game. Also possibly a few games that you might consider to be of the same genre.

But hey, we're all gamers, nobody dies if someone varies.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
sacha cauvin
France
rouen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thank you Phil.

I love games, And though That the title of my thread was clear enough. Maybe its my english..oh well.

At the end of the day i did this short review because a friend of mine thought i should And to raise (more) interest for Heroes.

We played twice again last night D Day, scenario 1!
13 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mr G
United Kingdom
Hatfield Heath
Essex
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Keep going General Hoth.

Every review is sacred.
5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Christopher Westphal
msg tools
mbmb
I have heard things about the clarity of the rules, but I am assuming that because I have played lots of games of Frontiers, their first game, things should not be a problem because as far as I can tell HoN just builds upon that ruleset.

Am I correct, anyone who has played Frontiers?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Stuart Hill
United Kingdom
newtownards
county down
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the review.

Regarding some of the points above re: facts vs personal views, I judge every review as someone's personal opinion. That's why I'll usually read several reviews and other posts before deciding on a game.

Different people's/ sides "facts" can often be very different. As one historian put it the German "facts" during WW2 on the French resistance would be very different from the "facts" presented from the other side.

PS I'm also happy for someone to post opions after 1 play (another bugbear for others on this site). In the same way as I don't expect someone to watch a film or read a book several times before giving me their opinion. Sure, in each case someone may be able to give a deeper insight after several watches/ reads, but only if several watches/ reviews are warranted.
7 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allan Doyle

Virginia
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Aegisgrimm wrote:
I have heard things about the clarity of the rules, but I am assuming that because I have played lots of games of Frontiers, their first game, things should not be a problem because as far as I can tell HoN just builds upon that ruleset.

Am I correct, anyone who has played Frontiers?


This is correct.

The rule book does a great job of explaining the basic game mechanics. Such as order tokens and activation. The issues that crop up are those of converting a free flowing miniatures game onto a game board. Zone of Control is still a work in progress. Line of Sight rules could be cleared up a little.

If you enjoyed Frontiers, you will love HoN. I think the grid improves the game play. The recruitment tile is also an improvement to unit cost on the counters. It adds platoon break points and platoon optional purchases like extra ammo and grenades to the game.

I plan to sit down today and try Frontiers on the HoN boards.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Matt Price
United States
San Francisco
California
flag msg tools
Member of the San Francisco Game Group since 2005
badge
This is a customized Bane Tower from the game Man o' War
Avatar
mb
fentum wrote:
Keep going General Hoth.

Every review is sacred.


Completely agree. Except for any review of Myth that I disagree with.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Miller
United States
Rock Hill
South Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
AKDoyle wrote:
Aegisgrimm wrote:
I have heard things about the clarity of the rules, but I am assuming that because I have played lots of games of Frontiers, their first game, things should not be a problem because as far as I can tell HoN just builds upon that ruleset.

Am I correct, anyone who has played Frontiers?


This is correct.

The rule book does a great job of explaining the basic game mechanics. Such as order tokens and activation. The issues that crop up are those of converting a free flowing miniatures game onto a game board. Zone of Control is still a work in progress. Line of Sight rules could be cleared up a little.

If you enjoyed Frontiers, you will love HoN. I think the grid improves the game play. The recruitment tile is also an improvement to unit cost on the counters. It adds platoon break points and platoon optional purchases like extra ammo and grenades to the game.

I plan to sit down today and try Frontiers on the HoN boards.


Can you explain what you mean by "Zone of Control is still a work in progress"? That makes it sound like they are in development of experimental, is that correct?

Thank you!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Allan Doyle

Virginia
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
MillertimeRC wrote:


Can you explain what you mean by "Zone of Control is still a work in progress"? That makes it sound like they are in development of experimental, is that correct?

Thank you!


As with any game system rules evolve. ZoC changed from 1.0 version to 1.1 version. Mainly due to a large discussion on the DPG forums. They are better now. But I think some future units from Shadows over Normandie might be able to assault multiple units at once. The rule might need to change to allow for this.

So while I think ZoC is pretty solid. I would not call it concrete.

Anyway. It was mostly a reference about the 1.0 rule and how it change in version 1.1.

I think this sort of evolution shows DPG is willing to listen to players. A good sign for this game.

2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chris Miller
United States
Rock Hill
South Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
What version is in the retail box - 1.1?

While I agree that some (but not all) game systems have rules updates over time, I don't agree that a game that isn't even widely available yet having changes is a good thing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Phil McDonald
England
Staffordshire
UK
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
MillertimeRC wrote:
What version is in the retail box - 1.1?

While I agree that some (but not all) game systems have rules updates over time, I don't agree that a game that isn't even widely available yet having changes is a good thing.


1.0 in the box

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Terence Lee
United States
Arcadia
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for this review! I'm still contemplating buying this game or not. I noticed that you played a lot of Dust Tactics - how would you compare the 2 game styles and which do you like better? I have a lot of the Dust models, but now that Battlefront has taken over, and the costs are extremely high, I was debating selling this off and finding another game with a WWII type theme. (also considering Tide of Iron and Conflict of Heroes, and yes I know HoN is simpler and more light-hearted).
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
sacha cauvin
France
rouen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Very difficult to compare these two games, especially since dust has moved on.
I d say That dust Plays faster now.
HON is very very popular here in France (more than dust) So its easier to find opponents. HON has a great army builder system but doesnt have the gorgeous miniatures.
Two good news:
Dust is picking up players again thanks to their kickstarter success And HON is also rolling on top of a great KS.i have pledged for shadows over Normandy.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
1 , 2  Next »   | 
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.