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Subject: Buying from neighbours - Reduced rates rss

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Chris Hall
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Hemel Hempstead
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Hi all,

I've played this game a couple of times with my group and we've been debating an action.

I don't have the game or rulebook in front of me, but I'll try explain as best I can.

Say I buy a yellow card that lets me buy resources for 1 coin instead of 2 from a neighbour, if I buy another card that lets me buy for one less, do I effectively get to use my neighbours resources for free?

I don't think you can, there's a passage in the rules that says something along the lines of "effects aren't cumulative, but that doesn't mean you can't buy them anyway..."

I assume this means that the effects don't stack, but you can buy them to stop your opponents getting them or for end game yellow card bonuses etc

 
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Donny Behne
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First and foremost, you cannot have more than one copy of the same named card in your tableau. Secondly, the yellow cards that allow you to buy resources from your neighbors for 1 coin are outright price changes - not discounts. This means you buy at one coin instead of two. Being price changes means that they cannot stack since making the price one coin and then having a card that makes the price one coin are both redundant effects. If you have a card that makes it one coin and then another card that gives you a rebate or a discount of one coin (Leaders/Cities expansions) then yes, your purchase is for free but the rebate/discount is often just the first resource you buy that turn.

To further clarify, you are using Olympia and you get East Trading Post in a hand passed to you. ETP is a redundant (and worse) card because it makes those resources cost one coin when bought from the neighbor on your right. Olympia already makes those resources cost one coin (assuming yuve built that stage of your wonder) but it also gives you the bonus when you buy from the neighbor on your left. ETP does nothing for you.

Next turn, someone passes you Clandestine Dock East. This card will give you a rebate of one coin the first time you purchase a resource from the neighbor to your right each turn. This does not make the first purchase free but rather means you get that coin back from the bank. This is important because it means you must still have at least one coin and that your neighbor still receives that coin but then you get one from the bank after purchasing. You cannot make that purchase with no coins.

I hope that helps.

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Chris Hall
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Hemel Hempstead
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I know you can only have one of each card, so no one has tried to buy 2 of the same card.

No one has actually tried to buy a second card yet to get "free" resources from neighbours, it was just something we were talking about after our game.

Maybe your first point makes the second point redundant. I don't know the cards well enough yet, it could be the case that there is only one card that lets you buy for 1 coin from your neighbour, just multiple copies of this card. In this case then, by default by only being able to own one copy of each card this situation shouldn't arise.

Something to note for future though if we ever play with the expansions.

Thank you
 
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Nat Levan
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Depends on the cards. In the base game, I don't think there is any way to accomplish this.
First, remember that you can't build two buildings with the same name. So while you can build both an East Trading Post and West Trading Post, you couldn't build two East Trading Posts.
Olympia B stage 1 is like having both trading posts, but you don't get an additional bonus for also building a trading post.
There aren't any other cards that provide this ability in the base game.

If you play with Leaders, the leader Hatshepsut gives you 1 coin on the first purchase from each neighbor in a turn. Combined with a trading post or Marketplace, the first resource could effectively be free for you, but the other player still gets paid.

If you play with Cities, the Clandestine Dock reduces the cost by 1 for the first purchase from a neighbor in a turn. It explicitly states that if you combine it with the trading post or marketplace, it is free.


Edit: Boy, no matter how quick I am, there's always someone faster on the response.
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Chris Hall
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We only have base game, so, as I said above, if the only cards that let you buy for 1 is the East and West Trading Post, then by default this situation can't come up.

We're already debating whether or not to get the expansions, so these rule checks now put us in good stead!

Thanks folks.
 
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Nat Levan
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One more hypothetical. If you had a clandestine dock, the matching trading post, and Hatshepsut in play, you could theoretically pay nothing for your first resource, AND get a coin back for net profit.
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The only case thus far of having duplicate symbols are the green and red cards, where multiple buildings both give you a tablet, but go by different names. For example, you can build a School and a Library, but not 2 Libraries. Ditto with reds. You can have an Archery Range and Stables which each give you 2 power, but not 2 Stables.

Leaders adds some redundancy to that.
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Donny Behne
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Sivilized wrote:
If you play with Cities, the Clandestine Dock reduces the cost by 1 for the first purchase from a neighbor in a turn. It explicitly states that if you combine it with the trading post or marketplace, it is free.


This is interesting because the Cities rulebook and the core rulebook have conflicting answers. According the rulebook in the base game, ETP/WTP/Marketplace all say "the player purchases raw materials from the neighboring city indicate by the arrow for 1 coin instead of 2". This seems to indicate it is not a rebate (something you get for making a purchase, hence after, not prior to, meaning you need the money to make the purchase). But then, if you read the Cities rulebook, it states "each turn the player has a commercial rebate of one coin on the first resource they buy from the neighboring city. This rebate is cumulative with that of a Market or a Counter: the first resource bought can thus be free".

I'm inclined to see the Cities rulebook as misinterpreting the Market effect. It makes sense that a Market or Trading Post would simply reduce the cost to one. This would mean that, even with the appropriate dock, a player must have one coin to make the purchase and it becomes "free" by effect but they must still pay the person they are buying from then receive the coin from the bank.
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Donny Behne
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chrishall20 wrote:
We only have base game, so, as I said above, if the only cards that let you buy for 1 is the East and West Trading Post, then by default this situation can't come up.


It will if someone plays the B side of Olympus. It is the same effect as the Trading Posts.
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Ben
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Also, if your intentions are to prevent someone else from getting the card, you wont be able to build it if you have the same one already out. However, you always have the option to sell the card for 3 coins so no one else can get that card.
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Chris Hall
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kelann08 wrote:
chrishall20 wrote:
We only have base game, so, as I said above, if the only cards that let you buy for 1 is the East and West Trading Post, then by default this situation can't come up.


It will if someone plays the B side of Olympus. It is the same effect as the Trading Posts.


Ok, so part of the Wonder of this is to give a reduced rate of 1, or does it reduce the amount you have to pay by 1?

If it gives a reduced rate of 1, then a trading post will have no effect.

If it reduces the amount by 1, then with a trading post it will be 0.
 
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Brandon Irvine
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chrishall20 wrote:
kelann08 wrote:
chrishall20 wrote:
We only have base game, so, as I said above, if the only cards that let you buy for 1 is the East and West Trading Post, then by default this situation can't come up.


It will if someone plays the B side of Olympus. It is the same effect as the Trading Posts.


Ok, so part of the Wonder of this is to give a reduced rate of 1, or does it reduce the amount you have to pay by 1?

If it gives a reduced rate of 1, then a trading post will have no effect.

If it reduces the amount by 1, then with a trading post it will be 0.


It is confusing.

I'm not going to quote you chapter and verse with the rules -- some of it is spread out on the rule forum and some in the book -- but I'm 95% confident in this answer:

The symbol on the Trading Post is best interpreted as "costs for these are now set to 1 for you when buying from the indicated neighbor(s)".

So it is redundant to build Olympia B and a Trading Post, because they just both set the price to 1.

(This "set to 1" stuff is just the best way to translate the symbol, even though it is not explicitly stated anywhere.)

Re: Clandestine Docks:

Indeed, the rules in English for Clandestine Dock have the word "rebate," but as I understand it, this is just a translation glitch, and it should really read "discount." So, for the first resource (or manufactured good) that you buy from a neighbor in a turn, you pay 1 less.

And yes, this ability does "stack" with the Trading Posts', so you can effectively pay 0 to "buy" a resource from a neighbor and even get a 1 coin rebate from the bank with Hatshepsut (or even 2 if you have Berenice as well).

http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/891691/hatshepsut-clandestin...

Okay?

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Chris Hall
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irvinicus wrote:

Okay?


Yes I think so!

I guess this will come second nature to us in the base game, so if/when we get expansions it won't be so confusing!

Thanks
 
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woosh ito
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Shit... I was playing wrong blush
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woosh_ito wrote:
Shit... I was playing wrong blush
It happens
 
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Robert Stewart
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ackmondual wrote:
woosh_ito wrote:
Shit... I was playing wrong blush
It happens


Yeah, the iconography in 7 Wonders is good for reminders, not so good for explanations - if you know what a card does, then the symbol will remind you; if you get shown a new card, then you're unlikely to guess what it does...
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rmsgrey wrote:
ackmondual wrote:
woosh_ito wrote:
Shit... I was playing wrong blush
It happens


Yeah, the iconography in 7 Wonders is good for reminders, not so good for explanations - if you know what a card does, then the symbol will remind you; if you get shown a new card, then you're unlikely to guess what it does...
Well, unless you want a wall of text in your games, then that's the tradeoff. Plus, it won't work with folks who can't read English.
 
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