Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
7 Posts

Summoner Wars» Forums » Rules

Subject: Tournament tiebreakers? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Chien-Tsun Chen
Taiwan
Taipei
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi,

I'll run a SW tournament in Taipei, Taiwan this Sunday. I can't find the tiebreaker for players with the same win-loss records. Is there MUD (Matchup Differential) for all 16 factions? Or even 16+8 = 24 currently available Summoners?

Thanks!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Kenneth Sheffield
United States
Aberdeen
North Carolina
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Strength of Victory is a common tie breaker. Compare the record of players defeated by the tied players.

If the players played during the tournament, use the winner of that as the tie break.

Better yet, have them play another game.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
J. Stimson
United States
New Hampshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Someone on the PHG forums (Tortugatron I think) was working on such a table, but I think it didn't cover all the factions yet, and no idea how well tested it is. Either way, I don't think that's really the way to go since people get so opinionated on who is "overpowered" and at least when you bring ALL the factions into it, seem to have trouble agreeing. (It's totally Tundle though ).

I believe the accepted standard such as there is one is to use Strength of Schedule, something like the Buchholz system used in chess. i.e. Raw Score = 1 point per win, 0.5 points per draw. Total Buchholz score = (Raw Score) * (Raw Score of Opponent #1 + Raw Score of Opponent #2 + ...)

Obviously this works best if you do pairing by record, which you should really be doing anyway.

If you have time, of course, you could always just do a playoff between the players who are tied for the top slots.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Noble Knave
United States
Santa Barbara
California
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
smoox wrote:
Hi,

I'll run a SW tournament in Taipei, Taiwan this Sunday. I can't find the tiebreaker for players with the same win-loss records. Is there MUD (Matchup Differential) for all 16 factions? Or even 16+8 = 24 currently available Summoners?

Thanks!


How many players? What kind of tournament are you running? The tiebreaker likely depends on the type of tournament.

MUD works well on the mobile platforms because there's a ton of data available to generate that table. In the physical game, with 14 more factions available, it is a very different beast.

Typically I run a Swiss style tournament, and then you will only have ties for the middle of the pack.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chien-Tsun Chen
Taiwan
Taipei
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the suggestion!

There will be 24 attendants. I will use a similar structure used in iOS tournament.

In the first stage:
4 people per group. 6 group in total.
Three-for-Fighting format. (Use three different factions to play with three opponents)
The best two players move to the next stage.

Tn the second stage:
4 people per group. 3 group in total.
Three-for-Fighting format.
The best one player move to the final PLUS one WILD CARD player chosen from the 3 groups.

Final 4:
Pick-your-poison + KC twist as proposed on PHG tournament guidelines.

*Players MUST use EIGHT different factions throughout the tournament if he/she fight till the finals.

Deciding the wild card player seem to be the most difficult issue. But comparing the record of players defeated by the tied players seems to be a possible solution.

I was just thinking that a MUD of 16 factions will encourage players to try those less commonly used factions.

Thanks guys!
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
MGS
United States
flag msg tools
badge
Warhammer: Diskwars
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Are you using chess clocks? If not, be prepared to have a way to deal with possible stalemate/draw situations. Strength of schedule aka number of wins by a player's opponents is the best tiebreaker in Summoner Wars but it will be a little less useful here since the players are playing within a pool therefore each player within a pool is playing exactly the same opponents. This is especially relevant during the first group stage.

I think you might get in trouble there. Let's in group A, 3 players end with a 2-1 record (while the 4th player goes 0-4), how are you going to decide which 2 advance? They played exactly the same opponents. You, most likely, will be left with a roll off to decide. This might be undesirable and frustrating.

For the second group stage, you should be ok. Although, by always locking the players within pools, the strength of schedule does not show its full force.

Choosing the wild card might be the smallest of your challenges. You are already giving the spot to a player who did not earn it like the other ones. A second chance of sorts. Among the players who did not already qualified to the finals, the spot goes to the player wih most wins throughout the tournament. First tiebreaker will be strength of schedule. Second tiebreaker will be number wins I. The second group stage (where they faced better opponents, theoretically). If you still have a tie then a roll off will decide.

Since SOS is the only available tiebreaker, keeping the players locked in pools may prove to work against the systems. Using a Swiss format instead, would spread the field and make the SOS and tiebreaking easier and more relevant.

Consider this:

First stage. 3 rounds of Swiss, 3-for-fighting format.
Second stage. Top 12 players. 3 rounds of Swiss, 3-for-fighting format.
Top 4 advance to single elimination rounds with first playing fourth and second playing third in the semis. Always using a different faction.

Logistically, give each player an index card that is signed by the opponent after each match. This will keep track of each player's record making it easy to pair people with similar records during he Swiss.

Now, let's go back to watching World Cup. The Dutch were superb yesterday!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Chien-Tsun Chen
Taiwan
Taipei
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Thanks for the suggestion!
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.