fangotango
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For the purposes of repair of canals (Kiel and Suez), and Axis Variant 2 (Irish Resistance), does a complete game turn mean one season (e.g. every phase of a summer turn), or does it depend on which phase of a turn the conditions are met to begin the countdown?

For example, if the Allies capture Kiel during the ground movement phase in the Spring turn, do they gain full use of the canal at the start (or end?) of the Allied ground movement phase of the Fall turn, or not until the start of the Winter game turn?

I have always assumed the latter, but I have seen the Irish Resistance variant played so that Britain could use SR to meet their obligations at the end of a spring turn (for example), and then SR them out at the end of the following Spring turn, rather than having to wait until the Summer turn begins. So that got me wondering just how these terms are meant to be defined.

I think that the issue can become very murky if it depends on when in a turn a canal switches owner. Do you then count the turns by the side that took control, or is it based on which half of the turn it occurred? Double moves could create some muddled situations in that case.

I know there is a difference in phrasing (one full year vs two complete game turns), but I have no idea if that should make any difference.

How do people usually play these two rules?
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Steve Carter
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For me, a "complete game turn" is defined by the SOP in the back of the rulebook. (Rule 55-II)
A "season" is the same as "one complete game turn" regardless of which side has the initiative or whether that initiative "flipped" along the way.
So if the "event" occurs in the Spring, then that would not count as the first "complete game turn," since the event by definition would occur during either the movement or combat phase of one of the players. The "two complete game turns" would be the Summer and Fall.
So I would agree with your interpretation that the start of Winter game turn would be correct.
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Patrick Bauer
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The problem here, as always is verbiage.

German variant #2 says "...keep them there for one full year...". No where does it define the duration by "turns".

The Kiel and Suez say "...two consecutive complete game turns..."


The Irish variant as a stronger argument that a full year is from a step in the SoP to the same step.

But even the canal rule has wiggle room. What is a "complete turn"? Is step 8m to 8m a complete turn? Or is it two passes through the controlling player's turn? Or is it two full runs through part II, meaning a flip flop doesn't open the canal until after the enemy runs thorough his turn?


FWIW: I've always play both as same step in the turn to same step two player turns later and not fulfill-then a full turn-then a full turn-then fixed/satisfied.
 
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fangotango
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SewerStarFish wrote:
The problem here, as always is verbiage.

German variant #2 says "...keep them there for one full year...". No where does it define the duration by "turns".


Neither does it define one full year as from a step in the SoP to the same step. Does it not seem just as likely that one full year equates with four full game turns?

SewerStarFish wrote:
The Kiel and Suez say "...two consecutive complete game turns..."

The Irish variant as a stronger argument that a full year is from a step in the SoP to the same step.

But even the canal rule has wiggle room. What is a "complete turn"? Is step 8m to 8m a complete turn? Or is it two passes through the controlling player's turn? Or is it two full runs through part II, meaning a flip flop doesn't open the canal until after the enemy runs thorough his turn?


I agree there is wiggle room. That is the problem shake

Edit: seems there is not wiggle room with the canal repair. See next post......
 
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fangotango
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Well, thanks to Steve, who mentioned using the Sequence of Play for his definition, I found part of the answer in the SoP. Step 14, the very last step of each player turn, reads:

Quote:
14. Possible Repair of Kiel Canal (29.13), Suez Canal (47.3)


Canal repair can only be completed as the very last action of a player turn, so there is no question of which step control of the canal hex or hexes took place. You have to wait two full turns after the turn you gain control, and then you can use the canal on the third turn.

I am going to go out on a limb, and assume that the repair of a canal under your own control can only happen during your own turn.
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Patrick Bauer
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Yeah, I guess I don't play the canal repair from step to step but the the Irish one I do.

Mea culpa.
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Steve Carter
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SewerStarFish wrote:
Yeah, I guess I don't play the canal repair from step to step but the the Irish one I do.

Mea culpa.

I have never had the opportunity to play the Irish variant....
 
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