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Subject: Multiple instances of Sniper/Saboteur rss

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Patty Pilf
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If I am about to perform a dig action (4 tribe members/1 dig), how many other players are allowed to snipe and sab' my tribe members this action?

One per action? or may multiple Snipers and Sab's hit me for 3-4 of my cards to be discarded?

If multiple attacks may be performed, I assume this may only be in the singular, and happen again if I decide to take my cards back into hand and retry another dig!?!?!?!

Thanks for any help,
Patty.
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Marc Bennett
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as far as i am aware any number of players may make any number of snipes on your turn across any of your actions. the only limit really is the number of snipers that happen to be in each players hand.

with the limited number of snipers and the fact that the same person isnt going to get all of them, not to mention they then have to be drawn into hand. also remember a hand with nothing but snipers is a pretty dreadful hand lol.
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Ray Black III
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Sure, someone could sniper you over and over on your turn, if they want to burn their Snipers/Sabs that way.

But you're right, Patty, because of how they're resolved, it's once per action that you declare. You've got the right of it.

So if you declare your Dig action and they use a Sniper to take out one of your guys, you then pull the rest back into your hand and figure out your next move. If you try to Dig again, they can use another Sniper on you, but, again, everyone else goes back into your hand. Then maybe you use your 2 remaining Scavengers to go hunt with a Rifle, but another opponent uses a Sab and take out the Rifle, and your people are pulled back into your hand. Since you still haven't actually performed any actions yet, maybe it's time to send your last 2 Scavengers to Draw instead and hopefully you'll get something to help you with the skirmish.

Hope that helps!
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Patty Pilf
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According to this post it looks like we played correctly! wow

gabhart wrote:
any of the other players have the opportunity to reveal a Sniper Team or Saboteur in order to act on those revealed cards, but there is no opportunity to interrupt this action because it happens instantly.


Looks like it's not in the singular!!! wow
 
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Robert K Gabhart
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AntandBeeandtheABC wrote:
According to this post it looks like we played correctly! wow

gabhart wrote:
any of the other players have the opportunity to reveal a Sniper Team or Saboteur in order to act on those revealed cards, but there is no opportunity to interrupt this action because it happens instantly.


Looks like it's not in the singular!!! wow


Sorry. I've had a busy weekend. I usually respond sooner than this.

The intended order of events is as follows:

1) You go digging.
2) 3 people slap down a Sniper Team.
3) They all suddenly realize that there are multiple parties involved and everyone pulls their Sniper Team back into their hands.
4) One-by-one, in turn order, each person is given the option to reveal a Sniper Team to attack your diggers. [Typically, one or more of the revealed Sniper Teams will be saved rather than used.]
5) You pull the un-sniped cards back into your hand and take your next action (perhaps attempting to dig or possibly choosing a different action).

Hopefully that helps.
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Patty Pilf
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What about the following example:

Player#1 on turn plays his dig cards.
Player #4 plays a sniper
Player #3 plays a sniper.

Player #3 gets first choice of who to snipe.

But can he choose to snipe player #4 instead of the digging player #1?

Thanks everso,
Patty.
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Marc Bennett
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I don't see why he cant snipe the enemy sniper, thus allowing the dig to happen. but im not sure what you mean by choice. when player 4 plays the sniper he has to declare a target (the dig), player 3 can play the sniper on the sniper at that point

if player 3 would rather play his sniper on the dig he can declare so and player 4 will have to take his card back however in reality it would be better for player 3 to just keep quiet and let player 4 use his sniper as the dig is still stopped and wait for the next action of player 1 or save it for another player. my reasoning is if player 4 is using his card to do what you want to do, why not just save yours.
 
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Patty Pilf
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Klaxas wrote:
I don't see why he cant snipe the enemy sniper, thus allowing the dig to happen. but im not sure what you mean by choice. when player 4 plays the sniper he has to declare a target (the dig), player 3 can play the sniper on the sniper at that point


This is what I need to know for sure. I know it's not wholly beneficial to snipe other players at this point, and the designer says to 'attack the digger', but I do wonder if it can be embellished upon to use on and harm other snipers hands.

Also I thought the cards were resolved in player order, not in the order of first come first served.

 
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Marc Bennett
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AntandBeeandtheABC wrote:
Klaxas wrote:
I don't see why he cant snipe the enemy sniper, thus allowing the dig to happen. but im not sure what you mean by choice. when player 4 plays the sniper he has to declare a target (the dig), player 3 can play the sniper on the sniper at that point


This is what I need to know for sure. I know it's not wholly beneficial to snipe other players at this point, and the designer says to 'attack the digger', but I do wonder if it can be embellished upon to use on and harm other snipers hands.

Also I thought the cards were resolved in player order, not in the order of first come first served.



it was my understanding and I may be wrong that things are resolved in player order if there is a conflict (ie both players want to snipe the same thing) but if you snipe a dig and I wan to snipe your sniper then there isn't a conflict because we arnt attacking the same thing.

so for example if I play a dig, you snipe my dig, I can snipe your sniper and so I get to dig. since no one has the same target there is no conflict and player order doesn't matter.

as an old magic player it is kind of second nature, so maybe I am not playing it correctly but that is how I have been handling it.
 
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Patty Pilf
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Klaxas wrote:
so for example if I play a dig, you snipe my dig, I can snipe your sniper and so I get to dig. since no one has the same target there is no conflict and player order doesn't matter.


If what you write is a 2 player instance, I know this is wrong. There is no bullet time. You cannot counter a card that is committed to play. So the same person cannot snipe my sniper before I get to dig.

Also if two players played a sniper to attack the digger, play is definitely turn order, as it is for the Skirmish round.

I don't see why it should be any different if a sniper wants to target the other sniper instead of the digger 'if' that is allowable, which is the question at hand should the designer wish to comment.



 
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AntandBeeandtheABC wrote:
What about the following example:

Player#1 on turn plays his dig cards.
Player #4 plays a sniper
Player #3 plays a sniper.

Player #3 gets first choice of who to snipe.

But can he choose to snipe player #4 instead of the digging player #1?

Thanks everso,
Patty.
x



No, because at the instance of the dig there are no snipers 'yet' in play. The only option is to snipe a digger.

When the digging team is revealed, the snipe is an 'instant'. The only considering factor is 'who pulls the trigger on the digger' first. Which is player order.

Other snipers left with no dig targets are returned to hand. They do not partake in a free-for-all, taking each other out. Even if they want to do so in turn order!

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Marc Bennett
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AntandBeeandtheABC wrote:


If what you write is a 2 player instance, I know this is wrong. There is no bullet time. You cannot counter a card that is committed to play. So the same person cannot snipe my sniper before I get to dig.


I don't know what you mean about bullet time. but if you are playing a 2 player game, if I dig then my opponent snipes my dig, I can snipe the sniper and my dig still happens. the sniper basically cancels a person card just played so when my opponent plays the sniper I play my sniper an it cancels his sniper, so if his sniper is canceled then it doesn't kill my digger so my digger still activates.

AntandBeeandtheABC wrote:


Also if two players played a sniper to attack the digger, play is definitely turn order, as it is for the Skirmish round.


yes that is true because 2 players are trying to snipe the same target so then player order does matter. but if I dig and you snipe my dig and I snipe your snipe then they are different targets so player order doesn't matter and it is the order the cards were played that matters.

AntandBeeandtheABC wrote:

I don't see why it should be any different if a sniper wants to target the other sniper instead of the digger 'if' that is allowable, which is the question at hand should the designer wish to comment.


its different because the targets are different. you only use player order if there is a conflict with 2 snipers trying to kill the same thing. 2 or more snipers cannot kill the same person, so if they try, outcome is decided in player order.

I must also say this has always been my interpretation which was rather automatic from my years of playing magic back in the day so I very well could be wrong.
 
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Patty Pilf
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zombiegod wrote:
AntandBeeandtheABC wrote:
What about the following example:

Player#1 on turn plays his dig cards.
Player #4 plays a sniper
Player #3 plays a sniper.

Player #3 gets first choice of who to snipe.

But can he choose to snipe player #4 instead of the digging player #1?

Thanks everso,
Patty.
x



No, because at the instance of the dig there are no snipers 'yet' in play. The only option is to snipe a digger.

When the digging team is revealed, the snipe is an 'instant'. The only considering factor is 'who pulls the trigger on the digger' first. Which is player order.

Other snipers left with no dig targets are returned to hand. They do not partake in a free-for-all, taking each other out. Even if they want to do so in turn order!



Thanks Rob, that makes sense!

Klaxas wrote:
I don't know what you mean about bullet time. but if you are playing a 2 player game, if I dig then my opponent snipes my dig, I can snipe the sniper and my dig still happens. the sniper basically cancels a person card just played so when my opponent plays the sniper I play my sniper an it cancels his sniper, so if his sniper is canceled then it doesn't kill my digger so my digger still activates.


This is totally wrong.

designer wrote:
In this case, you could not use a sniper to PREVENT the first Snipe action because it already happened. The Skirmish is different because ALL cards are revealed and then special actions are resolved in turn order.


Discussion


Klaxas wrote:
2 players are trying to snipe the same target so then player order does matter. but if I dig and you snipe my dig and I snipe your snipe then they are different targets so player order doesn't matter and it is the order the cards were played that matters.


But once I snipe your dig, my sniper and your digger is discarded. So you have nothing to snipe!

Klaxas wrote:
its different because the targets are different. you only use player order if there is a conflict with 2 snipers trying to kill the same thing. 2 or more snipers cannot kill the same person, so if they try, outcome is decided in player order.


true, and more than one tribe member can be involved in a dig.

Klaxas wrote:
must also say this has always been my interpretation which was rather automatic from my years of playing magic back in the day so I very well could be wrong.


I am inclined to disagree with you on most of these points, after all Magic is a totally different game. You cannot use those rule assumptions for every card game!

I believe Rob has posted the correct, or most intuitive answer so far, but thanks for the input.

Patty
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Marc Bennett
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designer wrote:
In this case, you could not use a sniper to PREVENT the first Snipe action because it already happened. The Skirmish is different because ALL cards are revealed and then special actions are resolved in turn order.


Discussion

this is the part I had missed, thank you for clarifying.

although this could cause a problem if you are first in player order an someone snipes your dig then you snipe your dig so each player takes there sniper back and it resolves in turn order so you then change your mind and don't snipe so when they snipe you repeat and then windows infinite loop exception fatal error and the program crashes!

seriously though I find it odd that snipers work one way in the skirmish phase and a different unintuitive way in the resource gathering phase. just my opinion.
 
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Patty Pilf
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Klaxas wrote:
although this could cause a problem if you are first in player order an someone snipes your dig then you snipe your dig so each player takes there sniper back and it resolves in turn order so you then change your mind and don't snipe so when they snipe you repeat and then windows infinite loop exception fatal error and the program crashes!


No idea where you're going here. Once your players have been sniped, you either carry on with the dig, or take the cards back into hand to re-evaluate, re-organise and perform a different action.

You cannot snipe on your dig. Simple as!

designer wrote:

Sniper and Saboteur attacks happen instantly. There is no "bullet time".




 
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Robert K Gabhart
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zombiegod wrote:
AntandBeeandtheABC wrote:
What about the following example:

Player#1 on turn plays his dig cards.
Player #4 plays a sniper
Player #3 plays a sniper.

Player #3 gets first choice of who to snipe.

But can he choose to snipe player #4 instead of the digging player #1?

Thanks everso,
Patty.
x



No, because at the instance of the dig there are no snipers 'yet' in play. The only option is to snipe a digger.

When the digging team is revealed, the snipe is an 'instant'. The only considering factor is 'who pulls the trigger on the digger' first. Which is player order.

Other snipers left with no dig targets are returned to hand. They do not partake in a free-for-all, taking each other out. Even if they want to do so in turn order!



This is correct.
 
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Marc Bennett
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AntandBeeandtheABC wrote:
Klaxas wrote:
although this could cause a problem if you are first in player order an someone snipes your dig then you snipe your dig so each player takes there sniper back and it resolves in turn order so you then change your mind and don't snipe so when they snipe you repeat and then windows infinite loop exception fatal error and the program crashes!


No idea where you're going here.


[/q]

was joking around. sorry to confuse you!
 
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Robert K Gabhart
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AntandBeeandtheABC wrote:

Klaxas wrote:
I don't know what you mean about bullet time. but if you are playing a 2 player game, if I dig then my opponent snipes my dig, I can snipe the sniper and my dig still happens. the sniper basically cancels a person card just played so when my opponent plays the sniper I play my sniper an it cancels his sniper, so if his sniper is canceled then it doesn't kill my digger so my digger still activates.


This is totally wrong.



+1 for Truth. That is, in fact, totally wrong.

If your opponent snipes your dig, both the sniper and tribe member that was digging are discarded before any other action can be taken.
 
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