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Subject: You should add some decent looking wonders. rss

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Seal Bludgeoner
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By replacing the cardboard chips on a stand (really?) this game would look like less of a mess.

It would be appropriate for replacement yellow guys in this box too.
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Saying that the game looks like a mess is a stretch. It looks decent as is.
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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Seal Bludgeoner wrote:
By replacing the cardboard chips on a stand (really?) this game would look like less of a mess.

It would be appropriate for replacement yellow guys in this box too.


Actually they replaced the yellow guys for free which in my opinion was a fantastic bit of PR!

I am not a fan of companies that tell you to buy an expansion to fix something that is defective/broken and this was very nice of them to not do here.
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Chris J Davis
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What was wrong with the yellow pieces?
 
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Kyle
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bleached_lizard wrote:
What was wrong with the yellow pieces?
There was an issue with the plastic used for the yellow figures that caused them to "ooze" in some copies after being stored for a long time.


There were a few reports of people finding oily liquid in the bag with the figures and/or significant discoloration.

There were a number of other reports of people noticing that the yellow figures felt a little greasy or oily compared to the other (non-yellow) figures. (Mine were this way.)


Soaking the figures in high-percentage isopropyl alcohol (or similar) for 10-15 minutes and then letting them dry for a day or two was found to be an effective solution for the issue. (I haven't checked them in a couple weeks, but mine were still perfect 8+ months after doing this.)

However, this method wasn't really an option for people that had already painted their figures, and some people simply demanded more than a fix. For them and anyone else that needed it, Z-Man did an excellent job of getting replacement figures sent out. The numerous threads complaining about the issue have mostly quieted down since replacements started going out.



Putting an entire set of replacement yellow figures in every copy of the expansion would be massive overkill. Throwing in replacements for a few misprinted cards is simple and easy, but doing the same for a large number of figures would add a ton of extra expense for something that the majority of people don't need, especially when it's already being well-handled through other means. Not to mention all the confusion it would cause later on with reprints and later editions with people trying to figure out which version they had and which they actually needed.
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Santi Velasco
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Just FTR, I did the alcohol treatment to mine, and it worked, but they were sweaty again after a while. I mailed ZMan Games and they promptly sent me a replacement free of charge, so I don't see the need to put an extra (and costly I guess) piece set for people who might not need it.
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Seal Bludgeoner
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srcabeza wrote:
Just FTR, I did the alcohol treatment to mine, and it worked, but they were sweaty again after a while. I mailed ZMan Games and they promptly sent me a replacement free of charge, so I don't see the need to put an extra (and costly I guess) piece set for people who might not need it.


A blunder that big should be compensated for somehow. Give everybody a treat in the new box. Maybe one of the races looks different (and happens to be yellow). I don't think the melting pieces were the only problem, only the most noticeable. The shoddy boats and bent spears were bad enough. Cubes would have even been a better option. That's why I mentioned a wonder replacement. The old ones were the worst.

It's hard to get into a game when you look down and all these things are wrong. You DO notice, I mean, you're staring at them for the length of the game.

Make up for these errors by making the expansion include some sort of piece that could replace some of these things. Otherwise, the game will be remembered as "that one with the melting pieces, bad boats, bent spears and awful looking wonders."
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M.C.Crispy
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Seal Bludgeoner wrote:
It's hard to get into a game when you look down and all these things are wrong. You DO notice, I mean, you're staring at them for the length of the game.
I notice during set-up of the game, but once I've started playing I'm immersed in the game and really don't notice any issues with components.
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jonatan dyre
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Actual I really dislike the idea to use expansions to compensate- because that just feels like being forced to buy them! And I don't think it is the right way to treat the original costumers.

I don't think this is a game where a lot of things are wrong.
The yellow ooze is the big thing and it is replaced. The broken ships and spears are unfortunate , but I still find them miles better than cubes, or less fleshed out models. It is criticism running wild to state that cubes would have been better, and then at same times wants better wonders!

Regarding wonders, i would want an option to purchase fleshed out ones in a small pack besides. It is just fluff. And lets face it. we could have been given a flat wonder token with a picture on, and it would have been fine, and properly even have been more easy to accept.


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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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Seal Bludgeoner wrote:
srcabeza wrote:
Just FTR, I did the alcohol treatment to mine, and it worked, but they were sweaty again after a while. I mailed ZMan Games and they promptly sent me a replacement free of charge, so I don't see the need to put an extra (and costly I guess) piece set for people who might not need it.


A blunder that big should be compensated for somehow. Give everybody a treat in the new box. Maybe one of the races looks different (and happens to be yellow). I don't think the melting pieces were the only problem, only the most noticeable. The shoddy boats and bent spears were bad enough. Cubes would have even been a better option. That's why I mentioned a wonder replacement. The old ones were the worst.

It's hard to get into a game when you look down and all these things are wrong. You DO notice, I mean, you're staring at them for the length of the game.

Make up for these errors by making the expansion include some sort of piece that could replace some of these things. Otherwise, the game will be remembered as "that one with the melting pieces, bad boats, bent spears and awful looking wonders."


Calling it a "Blunder that big" is a little, I don't know... excessive? It is plastic, they (the manufacturing plant in China not Z-man games) used plastic that wasn't bonded too well and is shedding its pigmentation. If it really is a Blunder that big, wouldn't it be on the plant in China and not on Z-man games?
I am not going to point fingers here but I know of extremely profitable big time board game publishers who have mistakes that would cost a heck of a lot less to fix, yet do nothing to fix it. Z-man replaced the figures 100% free to the consumer (unless you consider the cost of an email and digital photo as a cost out of your pocket), Z-man paid for shipping, and to be blunt they were a breeze to deal with in this case, no whining no threats no hate mail required. Seriously this is a 110% effort for customer service here I cannot fathom a single negative in this circumstance that can be levied against Z-man games.

I might be in the minority here but the fact they didn't use wooden cubes was what drew me to the game to begin with.

Sure the plastic they used was the soft less expensive to produce kind but I would rather see droopy spears then another wooden cube implementation.

Also just to cover all based I tried using "Dawn" because it puts grease on the run (tm)! That didn't fix the oily problem either, luckily 1 email to Z-man games fixed all the problems pretty darn quickly.
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Seal Bludgeoner wrote:
srcabeza wrote:
Just FTR, I did the alcohol treatment to mine, and it worked, but they were sweaty again after a while. I mailed ZMan Games and they promptly sent me a replacement free of charge, so I don't see the need to put an extra (and costly I guess) piece set for people who might not need it.


A blunder that big should be compensated for somehow. Give everybody a treat in the new box. Maybe one of the races looks different (and happens to be yellow). I don't think the melting pieces were the only problem, only the most noticeable. The shoddy boats and bent spears were bad enough. Cubes would have even been a better option. That's why I mentioned a wonder replacement. The old ones were the worst.

It's hard to get into a game when you look down and all these things are wrong. You DO notice, I mean, you're staring at them for the length of the game.

Make up for these errors by making the expansion include some sort of piece that could replace some of these things. Otherwise, the game will be remembered as "that one with the melting pieces, bad boats, bent spears and awful looking wonders."


Your just a spoiled brat to be honest. And for 10 Bucks you can get 3d printed wonders made specifically for Clash of Cultures.
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Howard Massey
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Calling it a "Blunder that big" is a little, I don't know... excessive? It is plastic, they (the manufacturing plant in China not Z-man games) used plastic that wasn't bonded too well and is shedding its pigmentation. If it really is a Blunder that big, wouldn't it be on the plant in China and not on Z-man games?
I am not going to point fingers here but I know of extremely profitable big time board game publishers who have mistakes that would cost a heck of a lot less to fix, yet do nothing to fix it. Z-man replaced the figures 100% free to the consumer (unless you consider the cost of an email and digital photo as a cost out of your pocket), Z-man paid for shipping, and to be blunt they were a breeze to deal with in this case, no whining no threats no hate mail required. Seriously this is a 110% effort for customer service here I cannot fathom a single negative in this circumstance that can be levied against Z-man games.

I might be in the minority here but the fact they didn't use wooden cubes was what drew me to the game to begin with.

Sure the plastic they used was the soft less expensive to produce kind but I would rather see droopy spears then another wooden cube implementation.

Also just to cover all based I tried using "Dawn" because it puts grease on the run (tm)! That didn't fix the oily problem either, luckily 1 email to Z-man games fixed all the problems pretty darn quickly.[/q]

No !!! zman is responsible !!
They sell the product !!!

And when this originally happened ,, they gave Krappy service.

zman is no hero
 
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alan beaumont
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I'm not a great fan of the soldier miniatures, but it is worth noting that it seems to be a rogue batch that was affected as my UK copy (purchased in the first wave) has never had this problem and I don't recall anyone here who has. Possibly something went wrong with the conditions they were exposed to, en route to the USA....?
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Seal Bludgeoner
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Mabuchi wrote:
Seal Bludgeoner wrote:
srcabeza wrote:
Just FTR, I did the alcohol treatment to mine, and it worked, but they were sweaty again after a while. I mailed ZMan Games and they promptly sent me a replacement free of charge, so I don't see the need to put an extra (and costly I guess) piece set for people who might not need it.


A blunder that big should be compensated for somehow. Give everybody a treat in the new box. Maybe one of the races looks different (and happens to be yellow). I don't think the melting pieces were the only problem, only the most noticeable. The shoddy boats and bent spears were bad enough. Cubes would have even been a better option. That's why I mentioned a wonder replacement. The old ones were the worst.

It's hard to get into a game when you look down and all these things are wrong. You DO notice, I mean, you're staring at them for the length of the game.

Make up for these errors by making the expansion include some sort of piece that could replace some of these things. Otherwise, the game will be remembered as "that one with the melting pieces, bad boats, bent spears and awful looking wonders."


Your just a spoiled brat to be honest. And for 10 Bucks you can get 3d printed wonders made specifically for Clash of Cultures.


You mean "you're" not "your" right?

And no, that is a blunder. The pieces melted. The spears bent. The boats don't fit. I don't care if the parts came from China or not, the guy put his name on the box and the product has noticeable flaws. I don't see why everybody is standing up for a shoddy product.

Yeah, I don't like cubes either. If the option is what I got in this box, give me cubes. That doesn't mean I like cubes, they are just preferable to a defective product.

The wonders do look like garbage. A little stand? Anything would have been better. That doesn't mean I'm spoiled. It doesn't even mean that I even have high standards. I just want to look down at a game that looks decent, and this doesn't. Again, why stand up for this? As a community BGG should celebrate quality and call people out when they release a sub-standard product. Don't stick up for people when they make mistakes. That will only give the green light for shoddy products in the future.
 
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Colin Sham
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That's exactly what a Cylon would say!
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Better looking wonders have been rehashed a few times. I think this is the winner so far:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/968960/upgraded-wonders

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alan beaumont
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Seal Bludgeoner wrote:
The wonders do look like garbage. A little stand? Anything would have been better. That doesn't mean I'm spoiled.

Ummmmm... No.
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Seal Bludgeoner
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Ridel wrote:
Better looking wonders have been rehashed a few times. I think this is the winner so far:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/968960/upgraded-wonders



So I pay money to replace the little cardboard stands. If they looked decent in the first place, then I wouldn't feel the need to do this. That is why I think there should be some new ones released with this expansion. There is obviously a desire for them to be replaced with enough people to warrant replacements.
 
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Seal Bludgeoner
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misteralan wrote:
Seal Bludgeoner wrote:
The wonders do look like garbage. A little stand? Anything would have been better. That doesn't mean I'm spoiled.

Ummmmm... No.


Is this where I go "umm yea" and then we repeat that a whole bunch of times?
 
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Gandalf the Greyjoy
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I disagree. There are worse things than stands. Would you rather have tokens? Stands are fine imo. They are unique and visible.

Of course I'd want to have miniatures, but I can understand publisher's decision that costs need to be cut. This game has awesome components already.

As for expansion I am willing to pay much more to have upgraded wonders. Put them into the box!
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Christian Marcussen
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If the game had miniature wonders (which was what i pitched), the cost would have made the game unsellable, and thefore would never have been made. It is already beyond the cost/profit limits that Z-man normally operate with.

The yellow minatures mess-up was of course very unfortunate, but I believe Z-man will rectify for anyone affected, and at no cost for the customer.



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Colin Sham
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Seal Bludgeoner wrote:
Ridel wrote:
Better looking wonders have been rehashed a few times. I think this is the winner so far:
http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/968960/upgraded-wonders



So I pay money to replace the little cardboard stands. If they looked decent in the first place, then I wouldn't feel the need to do this. That is why I think there should be some new ones released with this expansion. There is obviously a desire for them to be replaced with enough people to warrant replacements.


There's always desire to pimp the game. I wanted the soldiers for each side to be different. And I want all the miniatures to come prepainted. And you know what? My pony ain't coming this Christmas.

I was trying to help. You want nicer wonders? Here's a link to one that everyone likes. So go get it, or not.

But stop whining about how you want things for free. It's immature and not constructive.
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alan beaumont
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Seal Bludgeoner wrote:
misteralan wrote:
Seal Bludgeoner wrote:
The wonders do look like garbage. A little stand? Anything would have been better. That doesn't mean I'm spoiled.

Ummmmm... No.


Is this where I go "umm yea" and then we repeat that a whole bunch of times?
Well I'm game, if it will help in further emphasising my point, Mr Bludgeoner.
 
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jonatan dyre
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I think there is 2 parts in this discussion.

One is what went wrong and if it needs remedy in the original game.
That part belongs in the Clash of Culture forum where it have its discussion threads already.

The other part is if this has anything to do with the expansion. And I think we should use this thread to discuss that part. So I will expand my earlier view here.

The suggestion to use the expansion to compensate for lack of value in the original game is a possibility I really dislike. Even if I agreed that there original was a lack of value (which I don't) that could make the suggestion reasonable to think about, I would really dislike a company going that route

Simply because the message is that you have to buy to expansion to get what you deserved in the first place.

That's not saying that a company can't give a treat in an expansion and bring in better component's that heighten the quality and streamline the experience. And they could even bring in the wonders, (if they where economical affordable which christian states they are not), as long as it is NOT to compensate for lack of production value in the first part!

In that respect I like the company's police of replacing what clearly is production mishap.

Besides that I am looking forward for the next promised teasers about this expansion. Bring them on


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Jonathan Challis
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The Grinch wrote:
[q="Seal Bludgeoner"]
Only the first edition had issues with the yellow pieces, and Z-Man replaced them at no charge, so it is not appropriate to include them in the expansion.


You mean first printing, not first edition! There is no second edition, and none planned as yet.

And not all first printings had the problem. I've no idea why; if it was a batch of plastic made badly, or components stored badly, or what, but it affects some, and not others.

I have my friends 1st printing here with my 2nd printing, and the yellow miniatures are fine on his (and it's a couple of years old - plenty of time).
 
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M.C.Crispy
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Kelanen wrote:
The Grinch wrote:
[q="Seal Bludgeoner"]
Only the first edition had issues with the yellow pieces, and Z-Man replaced them at no charge, so it is not appropriate to include them in the expansion.


You mean first printing, not first edition! There is no second edition, and none planned as yet.

And not all first printings had the problem. I've no idea why; if it was a batch of plastic made badly, or components stored badly, or what, but it affects some, and not others.

I have my friends 1st printing here with my 2nd printing, and the yellow miniatures are fine on his (and it's a couple of years old - plenty of time).
Well, as they probably didn't print the plastic components, it was probably a batch of mouldings that weren't up to standard. There's almost certainly not a direct correlation between batches of mouldings and a print run of the other components, so it's just "luck of the draw" as to whether any given assemblage of components contained the bad batch (or batches).
 
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