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Subject: A disappointing last few hrs rss

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noah caldwell
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Even though a great deal, I really think the pyramid system Gd Kickstarter used killed the last hr rush that usually happens for a KS..im Not saying they didn't have a great campaign.. Just in it last hrs it has yet to move lol but there Is 35 hrs to go.. Will see if this changes What do you guys think?
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I agree about the multiple EB levels. One EB each for Earth/Moon/Galaxy would have been much better.
 
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Dom Hiob
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Well, I'm not expecting much change from where we stand... wish I were proved wrong! Especially as the SG to come seem *very* nice (I wasn't there for the 1st KS, so I was really looking forward to getting the NPC sculpts at 285k).

May be that the EB spread is responsible to some degree. It gave the campaign a very nice start, but obviously, mid- and especially end-campaign suffer from those backers who jumped onboard and now are revising their decision.

Also, I guess it'd be smart to be quite clear about the current KS's exclusives and whether or not they may appear in future kickstarters (I for one wouldn't mind. On the other hand, I find this whole KS exclusives thing unfortunate, to say the least, especially when it's not just eyecandy but rather relevant material (what about fan-generated missions that use material available to only a very moderate percentage of players?).
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DomHiob wrote:
Also, I guess it'd be smart to be quite clear about the current KS's exclusives and whether or not they may appear in future kickstarters (I for one wouldn't mind. On the other hand, I find this whole KS exclusives thing unfortunate, to say the least, especially when it's not just eyecandy but rather relevant material (what about fan-generated missions that use material available to only a very moderate percentage of players?).


That is a major issue for me as well. It's fine to have exclusives that are cosmetic only (like alt Chromium) or super quirky/non-standard. But exclusives that offer reasonable and different gameplay are discouraging for new players. The 1st KS added 6 agents to a game that ships with only 5 - that's a huge amount of new gameplay/replayability. Adding one or two agents would not have been that big of a deal, but 6...

 
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Major Havok
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I just dropped out last night due to the multiple EB tiers. And this was with my having a $270 galaxy. So my issue wasn't with the price I personally was getting, but with the general approach. And I decided to vote with my dollars and drop out after voicing my opinion in the KS comments.

EDIT: I just worry that KS projects are so disjoint/independant that there is no collective learning going on in the KS ecosystem. It still very much feels like the "wild west" where anything goes and every KS project starts this stuff over. After backing 40+ KS projects it doesn't seem _any_ better?
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Vladimir Lehotai
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Maybe it's the price for the rocket start, where it was funded almost instantly. But I'm a bit sad that we probably won't reach the $300k goal (or $300k+1, for that matter ).
 
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Guy Steuperaert
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Well i am still in.

Totally new to game the game.

I wished it would have a good end rush but it probably wont. Most of which are predictable.

This is an expansion and most people who want the expansion more or less pledged already.

The several eb dont help

As a newbie i have to pledge for base game plus some alien expansion plus two more expansion. No way to go for less then that.

The only way to get allot of cash flowin is from addons which (almost) dont exist with moon or above. Or with new players pledging but they have to be willing to pledge $295 or more so that wont be many people.

Conclussion:
I wished it wasnt like this but i am not really surprised. I myself doubted to keep my pledge or not but decided to keep it so far after asking a few question here on bgg.

I mostly want more agents so 285k or 300k is what i hope for but i doubt it.

Also not sure should i add my shipping to my pledge or do that afterwards. i never know how i am supposed to do it.
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Vasilis
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The title is a bit misleading as this campaign is going great already. It is going to miss the HUGE increase in pledge other campaigns get but this is normal for an expansion campaign.

The old backers are already there and the new ones need to buy EVERYTHING which has a higher point of entry. It is normal.

People dropping out because of many Early Birds baffles me though...
Ares realized they made a mistake with the Early Birds and added 8! Early Bird pledges for each category as soon as possible. Some of them are still in Early Bird territory!

They communicate well, they already proved their worth with the first Kickstarter and they answer all questions. They even compressed the final stretch goals to make them viable for unlock.

I don't find the lack of a huge last day rush to be totally unexpected for an EXPANSION kickstarter project. It actually makes sense.

What makes no sense for me is people dropping out because they didn't like the Early Birds, especially people who already have a nice Early Bird spot.
I have to assume that those are just the kind of people who went all-in when they got the chance, just to get a spot at a good early bird price and then realized that they don't actually want the game, so they are dropping out.
or maybe their expected Ebay profits aren't exactly high because of a lack of KS exclusives and they won't get much profit from gouging other gamers this time, so drop out time!

I don't know. For me, the game is blast, I'm all in. I'm willing to bet real money that some people who are dropping out now will be regretting it later...
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timothée licitri
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HawkeyeLonewolf wrote:

Look at MERCS: Recon

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/1700755582/mercs-recon/#cha...

It's largest day was the last day... It did $140K on the first and $180K on the last, with very small amounts throughout.


Recon is a game, not an expansion, and it proposed lots of add on.
In order to reach the 350k mark, we need 300 new backer at galaxy level ....

 
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Skaak
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The combination of first printing run being effectively sold out, plus the compressed stretch goals will hopefully coax some more people in. It's going to be pretty difficult to get ahold of the base game without pledging at Galaxy level until August or later. Tell your friends who are on the fence!

I agree that the Moon/Galaxy setup does kind of work against them, though. I've got a moon pledge, and there isn't really any reason to have more than one of any of the add-ons so my pledge has been set from the get-go (contrast with the first Kickstarter, where I was adding money almost to the end; which was confusing to manage, and annoying, but certainly ended up getting them more $$$).
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timothée licitri
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And the answer about P&P is a joke. "It is not mandatory". Add it after to avoid kickstarter fees about it. It could work if pledge manager help to unlock stretch goals. But no answer about this point.

 
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Brian M
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Oi. I'm looking at the GD 2nd Kickstarter here, and the backer levels are utterly baffling. Very unclear what stuff goes with which backer level.
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Dom Hiob
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skkrohmagnon wrote:
And the answer about P&P is a joke. "It is not mandatory". Add it after to avoid kickstarter fees about it. It could work if pledge manager help to unlock stretch goals. But no answer about this point.



Well, they DID just say that paying for shipping now *will* count towards total funding. So I guess, it will figure with respect to the stretch goals... This was posted by Ares on KS: "As specified there - adding PnP is not mandatory. If you do, of course, that will count toward the total funding."
 
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Roberto Di Meglio
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Regarding the EB levels.

I think that a lot people missed the fact that the EB climbed up slowly, and not at all in an "unforgiving way" to people coming to the KS later. But no matter how many times we tried to clarify this, the message still did not come through.

To make the message more clear, we just capped the maximum level at $ 120 (Earth), $ 225 (Moon), $ 295 (Galaxy) and we removed (or are removing - we cannot remove levels with backers) any level with a higher cost.

Anybody joining the campaign until the last minute will not pay anymore than that.

This leaves adifference between EB level and Maximum level of about 15-20% (EB1 being 99, 179, 259).

I think this is a reasonable bonus to recognize the Early Bird backers who helped us to make the campaign a success.

And the latecomers still find a campaign with an excellent pledge/rewards ratio - thanks to those EBs, we unlocked 27 goals that might not be there otherwise.



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Dom Hiob
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StormKnight wrote:
Oi. I'm looking at the GD 2nd Kickstarter here, and the backer levels are utterly baffling. Very unclear what stuff goes with which backer level.


Pretty simple, I think:
Earth: you will get both expansions and the BLUE stretch goals

Moon: you will get everything Earth plus the RED stretch goals

Galaxy: in addition to Moon, you will get the base game and its mini-expansion Elite Alien Army.

So: all Levels include the BLUE stretch goals, the REDs are just in Moon and Galaxy. You want Galaxy, if you don't have the base game.

EDIT: you can see which stretch goals are BLUE and which are RED by looking at this chart:

http://www.galaxy-defenders.com/kickstarter/GD_REWARD_SUMMAR...
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Roberto Di Meglio
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Timothee, I am not sure I get your point.

Of course we prefer PnP to be paid later because so we don't pay KS fees on shipping costs. What's wrong with that? Shipping costs are... a cost. Actually, half of our cost, infact.

That said... every dollar pledged into the KS counts for the funding. So we'll count it towards the SG. Again... What's wrong with that?

Maybe because I am Italian, you're French, and we're writing in English... something gets lost in translation.
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Duncan Idaho
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cybernex wrote:
I think this is a reasonable bonus to recognize the Early Bird backers who helped us to make the campaign a success.


It tends to reward those who are online when the KS launches. Some people don't have a flexible schedule. Instead, it makes them feel like they're subsidizing the deal that other people got.

It also rewards people who squat on those pledges and then decide whether to go through with it later.

Honestly, that's what I do most of the time. I don't like doing it, and I don't like KS with those pledges.
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Bowmangr wrote:
especially people who already have a nice Early Bird spot.


That's it - that's the nail on the head. The fact that there are multiple EBs for the same pledge. There should be exactly one EB level per pledge level.

My first pledge was at EB4, I missed EB3 literally be seconds. I pledged for the EB3 and Amazon told me it didn't exist before I could finish.

I nearly didn't pledge because of that.

I got lucky and was able to capture an EB1 slot 2 days later.

But the fact remains that there should not be stepped EBs. They only breed resentment.
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Brian M
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DomHiob wrote:
StormKnight wrote:
Oi. I'm looking at the GD 2nd Kickstarter here, and the backer levels are utterly baffling. Very unclear what stuff goes with which backer level.


Pretty simple, I think:
Earth: you will get both expansions and the BLUE stretch goals

Moon: you will get everything Earth plus the RED stretch goals

Galaxy: in addition to Moon, you will get the base game and its mini-expansion Elite Alien Army.

So: all Levels include the BLUE stretch goals, the REDs are just in Moon and Galaxy. You want Galaxy, if you don't have the base game.

EDIT: you can see which stretch goals are BLUE and which are RED by looking at this chart:

http://www.galaxy-defenders.com/kickstarter/GD_REWARD_SUMMAR...


I guess that clears it up...except there are still a lot of confusing things. Like what the heck is a "sheet"? Or a "5th column"? Or why I apparently would have to effectively buy all the add-ons that I mostly don't want just to get the one or two extra agents which are what I really want.

EDIT:

Quote:
Also, if you back at the Earth level, you CAN add ala carte the other stretch goals that you want.

Wait, you can? Guess I need to go back and look at this again...
 
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Roberto Di Meglio
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Brian, if you only want a couple of add-ons, you just pledge Earth, and add on whatever you like from the list of "Red" options.

You only do a Moon pledge if you think that $80-$90 more for $ 200 options, take them all, is a good deal.

Edit: Kevin jumped me on the spot!
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Roberto Di Meglio
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@Duncan - EB pledges only slightly higher (on average 10$ more) than the first EB slots have been available for something like two days after the launch of the KS.

So it's not a matter of schedules - it's a matter of being interested or not.

Those EB backers who were not interested dropped out, and other backers who came in later took their place (quite a few did, in fact).

Fortunately, more than 1200 people think that the GD2 KS is worth backing, and I'd like to hug everybody of them.

And if you think it's not a good deal... we will still hug you if you want :-)

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Dom Hiob
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StormKnight wrote:


I guess that clears it up...except there are still a lot of confusing things. Like what the heck is a "sheet"? Or a "5th column"? Or why I apparently would have to effectively buy all the add-ons that I mostly don't want just to get the one or two extra agents which are what I really want.


Well, for the sheets, I guess you're talking about the Agent Sheets? Each Agent comes with this little cardboard "sheet" with all the stats and everything printed on it. With some of the minis (thinking of the Knight(?) here), they get released with one figure but two sheets (so, basically two different agents, but if you only have one mini, you'll only be able to play one of these two at a time). 5th column is a set of minis/agents, if I remember right.

If you like Earth and just want a couple of extras, go for it. You can choose any of the figures as add-ons. Prices are given at the bottom of the page (well, the middle... search around a bit, you'll find them.

Also, thanks for the tip!
 
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HawkeyeLonewolf wrote:

What you're saying is that after the initial EBs they should have said "screw you" to other backers and made them pledge the full pledge.


no, have one big pool of EBs all at one dollar value instead of lots of small pools of EBs that steadily get more expensive

It's not hard to understand
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timothée licitri
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cybernex wrote:
Timothee, I am not sure I get your point.

Of course we prefer PnP to be paid later because so we don't pay KS fees on shipping costs. What's wrong with that? Shipping costs are... a cost. Actually, half of our cost, infact.

That said... every dollar pledged into the KS counts for the funding. So we'll count it towards the SG. Again... What's wrong with that?

Maybe because I am Italian, you're French, and we're writing in English... something gets lost in translation.


I want to say it's better for you to add P&P after KS and it's better for us to add it before regarding stretch goal.
If you allow unlocking goals after KS, it become better for everyone.

Actually, GD is a great game. I'm just angry about the end of this campaign Need all this cool stuff !

 
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Duncan Idaho
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cybernex wrote:
@Duncan - EB pledges only slightly higher (on average 10$ more) than the first EB slots have been available for something like two days after the launch of the KS.

So it's not a matter of schedules - it's a matter of being interested or not.


So you're saying that anyone who wanted to get in on the lowest EB pledge had the ability to do so? If not, then it is a matter of schedules.

I'm not saying you're screwing people over - just that doing EB pledges (even graduated ones) will create a situation where some people feel like they "missed out". That's almost always worse than creating a feeling in some people that they "won out".

Also, $10 is a significant percentage of the price here.

Quote:

Those EB backers who were not interested dropped out, and other backers who came in later took their place (quite a few did, in fact).


And, again, it's the people who can refresh the page several times a day that got to hop in on the lower EB pledges. I know - I work from home; I'm one of them. I've done it for many KS. I don't feel like it's a particularly fair way to allocate savings.

Quote:

Fortunately, more than 1200 people think that the GD2 KS is worth backing, and I'd like to hug everybody of them.

And if you think it's not a good deal... we will still hug you if you want :-)


And I'm happy for you guys! I wish you success. I'm just trying to put forward the consideration that maybe you'd have the same success if, instead of creating those EB pledges, you decreased the cost of every person's pledge slightly. And then you wouldn't have people upset that they missed the discount.

And next 'Con, I'll find you for that hug ;-). I do appreciate you taking the time to respond to my post in a positive manner - too many company reps on this site go straight to "attack mode" when they're criticized, which puts them instantly on my "Do not buy from" list.
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