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Subject: Adding the FTL Races to Eclipse rss

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Mistah Frooza
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The thread I started on Eclipse Mood Music in the general forum got me thinking more and more about crossover potential between FTL and Eclipse. For those of you not familiar, FTL: Faster Than Light is a videogame where you manage a spaceship full of lemmings that is always on fire or losing oxygen and the shields are down and the captain is dead. Among the game's many great attributes is its quirky races, which are both unique and interesting, and trope-ish in all the right ways. So I thought, why not try and bring these different races to Eclipse?

Here are my ideas thusfar, would love feedback (and possibly help with the graphic design stuff). Big thanks, by the way, to all the threads whose ideas I ripped off, I will try to credit specifics where I can find/remember them. (for instance: I stole my layout from the Exactor Syndicate thread, thank you dymond kyng!)




Zoltan Version 0.3
-Population Cubes always destroyed
-Made Ships More Expensive




Homeworld: Advanced Money, Science, Advanced Science, Advanced Materials, Artifact, 3 VP
Starting Storage: 4 Money, 2 Science, 4 Materials
Initial Technologies: Conifold Field (on the middle track), Advanced Labs
Trade Rate: 4:1
Movement: With the Move action may move up to two ships.
Reputation Track: 1 Diplo Only, 3 either/or
Colony Ships: Three Colony Ships
Starting Ships: One Interceptor

Ship Blueprints


Interceptor:
Materials Cost: 4
Modifiers: Initiative 2
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon, Empty Ship Part
Cruiser:
Materials Cost: 6
Modifiers: Initiative 1
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon, Empty Ship Part
Dreadnaught:
Materials Cost: 9
Modifiers: none
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon, Ion Cannon, Hull, Hull, Electron Computer, Empty Ship Part
Starbase:
Materials Cost: 4
Modifiers: Initiative 4, Power 3
Base Template: Ion Cannon, Hull, Hull, Electron Computer, Empty Ship Part

Special Rules

Population cubes always destroyed (like Planta).




Slug Version 0.4
+Increased shields back to -2
-Reduced shield modifier
-Reduced Colony Ships




Homeworld: Science, Materials, Advanced Money, Artifact, Nebula Homeworld (see below), 4 VP
Starting Storage: 3 Money, 3 Science, 2 Materials
Initial Technologies: none
Trade Rate: 3:1
Movement: With the Move action may move up to two ships.
Reputation Track: 4 either/or
Colony Ships: Two Colony Ships
Starting Ships: One Interceptor

Ship Blueprints


Interceptor:
Materials Cost: 3
Modifiers: Initiative 2, -2 shield
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon
Cruiser:
Materials Cost: 5
Modifiers: Initiative 1, -2 shield
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon
Dreadnaught:
Materials Cost: 8
Modifiers: -2 shield
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon, Ion Cannon, Hull, Hull, Electron Computer
Starbase:
Materials Cost: 3
Modifiers: Initiative 4, Power 3, -2 shield
Base Template: Ion Cannon, Hull, Hull, Electron Computer

Special Rules

Precognition: The Slugs are always considered to have arrived first to every hex they have ships in during the combat phase, and are therefore always the defender.

Nebula Homeworld: The Slugs have a homeworld that is also a Nebula as per the mini-expansion but with a few changes. The Slug homeworld, unlike the normal Nebula, does take an Influence Disc. Each section will have one of the three planets in it. In order to take their homeworld, a player would have to win battles in all parts of the hex with population cubes on them.




Rockmen Version 0.2
-Added in the big movement nerf they were supposed to have (whoops)



Homeworld: Science, Advanced Science, Materials, Advanced Materials, Artifact, 3 VP
Starting Storage: 2 Money, 3 Science, 4 Materials
Initial Technologies: Neutron Absorber (bottom track)
Trade Rate: 3:1
Movement: With the Move action may move one ship.
Reputation Track: 2 Diplomacy/Rep, 3 Rep (only have 2 ambassadors)
Colony Ships: Three Colony Ships
Starting Ships: One Interceptor

Ship Blueprints


Interceptor:
Materials Cost: 3
Modifiers: -1 Shield, single Yellow Missile, Single Hull
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon, Empty Ship Part
Cruiser:
Materials Cost: 5
Modifiers: -1 Shield, single Yellow Missile, Single Hull
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon, Empty Ship Part
Dreadnaught:
Materials Cost: 8
Modifiers: -1 Shield, single Yellow Missile, Single Hull
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon, Ion Cannon, Hull, Hull, Electron Computer, Empty Ship Part
Starbase:
Materials Cost: 3
Modifiers: Initiative 2, Power 3, -1 Shield, single Yellow Missile, Single Hull
Base Template: Ion Cannon, Hull, Hull, Electron Computer, Empty Ship Part

Special Rules

none



Mantis Version 0.2
-Bumped Wormhole Generator over



Homeworld: Money, Materials, Science, Artifact, 3 VP
Starting Storage: 3 Money, 2 Science, 3 Materials
Initial Technologies: Wormhole Generator (bumped over one space)
Trade Rate: 3:1
Movement: With the Move action may move up to two ships.
Reputation Track: 4 either/or, 1 rep only
Colony Ships: Three Colony Ships
Starting Ships: One Interceptor

Ship Blueprints


Interceptor:
Materials Cost: 3
Modifiers: Initiative 4
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Turret, Empty Ship Part
Cruiser:
Materials Cost: 5
Modifiers: Initiative 3
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Turret, Empty Ship Part
Dreadnaught:
Materials Cost: 8
Modifiers: Initiative 2
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Turret, Ion Turret, Hull, Hull, Electron Computer, Empty Ship Part
Starbase:
can't build starbases

Special Rules

none



Engi Version 0.4
+Added Fusion Source back
-Removed Starbase
-Removed Fusion Source
-Lowered Starting Science and Money




Homeworld: Advanced Money, Science, Advanced Science, Materials, Artifact, 3 VP
Starting Storage: 2 Money, 3 Science, 3 Materials
Initial Technologies: Fusion Source
Trade Rate: 3:1
Movement: With the Move action may move up to two ships.
Reputation Track: 1 Diplo Only, 3 either/or
Colony Ships: Three Colony Ships
Starting Ships: One Interceptor
Other Actions: may take up to four upgrade actions

Ship Blueprints


Interceptor:
Materials Cost: 3
Modifiers: Initiative 2, Repair Module (like on the ancient dreadnaught)
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon, Empty Ship Part
Cruiser:
Materials Cost: 5
Modifiers: Initiative 1, Repair Module
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon, Empty Ship Part
Dreadnaught:
Materials Cost: 8
Modifiers: Repair Module
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon, Ion Cannon, Hull, Hull, Electron Computer, Empty Ship Part
Starbase:
Materials Cost: 3
Modifiers: Initiative 4, Power 3, Repair Module
Base Template: Ion Cannon, Hull, Hull, Electron Computer, Empty Ship Part

Special Rules

none



Crystal Version 0.2
-Removed repair modules (were never meant to be there)



Homeworld: Money, Advanced Science, Materials, Advanced Materials, Artifact, Hidden Homeworld (see below), 3 VP
Starting Storage: 3 Money, 3 Science, 3 Materials
Initial Technologies: Improved Hull
Trade Rate: 3:1
Movement: With the Move action may move up to two ships.
Reputation Track: 1 Diplo Only, 3 either/or
Colony Ships: Three Colony Ships
Starting Ships: One Interceptor

Ship Blueprints


Interceptor:
Materials Cost: 3
Modifiers: Initiative 2
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon, Empty Ship Part
Cruiser:
Materials Cost: 5
Modifiers: Initiative 1
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon, Empty Ship Part
Dreadnaught:
Materials Cost: 8
Modifiers: none
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon, Ion Cannon, Hull, Hull, Electron Computer, Empty Ship Part
Starbase:
Materials Cost: 3
Modifiers: Initiative 4, Power 3
Base Template: Ion Cannon, Hull, Hull, Electron Computer, Empty Ship Part

Special Rules

Lockdown: Once per round, the Crystal player may, at any time, place the Lockdown token (special token that would be made for them) on a hex that they control or that they have a ship in. Once this token has been played, no ships may move into or leave the hex until the token is removed during the cleanup phase.

Hidden Homeworld: The Crystal Homeworld does not have the normal layout, it is missing the half-wormhole towards the I tiles. In addition, there should be a Warp Portal on the Homeworld.




Lanius Version 0.2
-Nerfed trade rates slightly



Homeworld: Money, Materials, Advanced Materials, Artifact, 3 VP
Starting Storage: 0 Money, 0 Science, 6 Materials
Initial Technologies:
Trade Rate: 3:2 (materials only), 5:1 (science/money)
Movement: With the Move action may move up to two ships.
Reputation Track: 3 either/or, 2 rep only
Colony Ships: Three Colony Ships
Starting Ships: One Interceptor

Ship Blueprints


Interceptor:
Materials Cost: 3
Modifiers: Initiative 2
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon, Empty Ship Part
Cruiser:
Materials Cost: 5
Modifiers: Initiative 1
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon, Empty Ship Part
Dreadnaught:
Materials Cost: 8
Modifiers: none
Base Template: Nuclear Source, Nuclear Drive, Ion Cannon, Ion Cannon, Hull, Hull, Electron Computer, Empty Ship Part
Starbase:
Materials Cost: 3
Modifiers: Initiative 4, Power 3
Base Template: Ion Cannon, Hull, Hull, Electron Computer, Empty Ship Part

Special Rules

Anaerobic: When Lanius population cubes are destroyed, place damage cubes (or an unused color of cube) in the squares where the population cubes were previously. This represents a lack of breathable atmosphere. These cubes may be removed by players who wish to colonize the squares by flipping an additional colony ship, and are otherwise removed at the cleanup phase of the next round. (original idea "Poison Breathers" from this thread: http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1128401/expanding-the-game-w...)


Mineral Eaters: 1 VP for every Materials planet (1 cube or 2 treated the same way) at the end of the game.





Thanks for reading! Feedback would be greatly appreciated.
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Paul Olson
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HelloLion, I like the initial idea of the different races. I do think these races are a little overpowered in general especially compared to the original races of the Eclipse game. That being said, if all of the races were the only option for an individual game, I think they would play very well with each other. I especially like the idea of the "Poison Breathers". I hadn't seen that thread yet, but there are a lot of ideas on that thread for special abilities for new races in general. I bet if you throw together some player boards, you'll get a lot of feed back quickly from others.
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Mistah Frooza
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Thanks Dymond Kyng! I'd love to hear specifically what you think is out of balance. I agree that they don't feel quite as balanced as I'd like yet, I just had a flurry of inspiration yesterday and wrote scribbled it all down between last night and this morning so it certainly hasn't all been thought out completely yet.

I'm going to go ahead and nerf Zoltans and Slugs with a couple changes I had been considering making anyway as these two feel especially strong to me currently. I also took a little of the wind out of Engi's sails.
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Paul Olson
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Okay, so there are a lot of races you've made so bear with me...

Zoltan: I like the ship increase in cost change you made. Still, Advanced Labs AND triple hull seems a little much for these guys especially with Advanced Labs being one of them as that is a very expensive tech. That being said, I think they could be play tested with the change. I could be wrong.

Slugs: Again, I like the one less colony ship change. Thematically, I would say take away all initiative from each one of their ships except the Star Base (initiative of 2). I think that would balance them out especially with their always being on defense rule. Their ships are already really strong with the build in -2 shield.

Rockmen: These guys seem really overpowered to me ship wise especially with the neutron absorber. I like the built in missile, but I think you could get rid of the shield and hull or just pick one of the three.

Mantis: I think this race is the most balanced especially with the lack of Star Bases. The only thing I would change would be (similar to Vanish's Lost Souls variant race), making the wormhole generator two spaces over meaning they would have to research two other techs on that row to have access to the tech.

Enji: Again, fairly balanced, but I think I would give them the extra build tech instead of the star base tech and/or make their ships 1 more resource. The hull repair is VERY powerful early especially against ancients.

Crystal: I think these guys have some interesting abilities, but I would remove the hull repair especially if their starting tech is improved hull. This is the only race that I know of that would start with that tech which I do like. And their starting homeworld with warp portal is an interesting twist.

Lanius: First off, 1:1 trading with build is a little on the strong side. I would change that to 2:1 or 3:2 at the least and maybe 4:1 for everything else. Other then that, you didn't put anything for their starting techs. Did you have something in mind? I was thinking the Ion Missiles tech might be fun for this race, but that could be a little on the strong side.

Those are my first thoughts. I welcome discussion though.
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Mistah Frooza
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Thanks for taking the time to go over each race in detail. Let me give my thoughts.

Zoltans: I'd like to test Zoltans the way they are and see how it goes. I really like the idea of them being a good balance between science and warfare, but having expensive ships and a poor trade rate.

Slugs: I don't want to reduce their initiative, because it makes their "always on the defense" rule significantly less useful. You did notice that they are missing a ship part (a la the planta) in exchange for that -2 shield right? Assuming you did notice, I will go ahead change the -2 to a -1.

Rockmen: I forgot to do the big nerf the Rockmen were supposed to have from the start, which is only one ship activation! Whoops.

Mantis: I'll think that over on the Mantis (the LSoA-style Wormhole Generator) but I think I might test them out as is.

Engi: What if I just give them no tech to start? I think that's where I'll go with this for now.

Crystal: Never meant to have the repair module, also a whoops.

Lanius: I was thinking of not giving them any starting tech. Also, I know The 1:1 trading looks strong, but considering they can't trade any other way this is likely to put pressure on their materials economy, and it's not like they have any particular advantages materials-wise so I think it'll balance out to be strong but not too strong. And again, no starting tech.

Anyway, made some changes, thanks again for going into such detail.
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Tony Go
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If you're having hull problems I feel bad for you son, I've got 99 problems but a breach ain't one.
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Let's just make an FTL boardgame!
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Paul Olson
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Great changes. Here are some more thoughts:

Zoltans: Play test 'em. I'm interested to see how they go.

Slugs: I actually didn't realize they had one less ship part. In that case, the -2 shields might work especially with one less colony ship as well.

Rockmen: That one movement is a huge nerf, but I would still take away one of the three built in things. I think you could get rid of the built in hull or shield personally.

Mantis: Maybe only one spot over instead of two for that tech? I'm just saying there is a reason that tech is the most expensive on that track. It's quite powerful and opens up the board a lot. I wouldn't give a race the starting tech of Gluon Computer or Quantum Grid for example.

Engi: Play test 'em with your new change. Also interested to see how these go. The only concern is they are very similar to the Meklar race which also has hull repair. I would even consider leaving the 6 energy tech (blanking on the name of the tech right now).

Crystal: Play test 'em. I'll be interested to see if the improved hull tech isn't too much of a boost.

Lanius: I see your point, but even still, they already have incentive to go after build planets with their 1 VP per build planet. I would like to see them with the 3:2. Otherwise, you are making any build resource into anything you want right away. It's in essence turning brown planets into white planets which is very powerful.

Are you planning on posting boards?
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Mistah Frooza
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Thanks for continuing to post your thoughts.

I'm gonna bump the Slugs up, give the Engi their Fusion Source back, switch the Lanius to a 3:2 trade ratio for Materials, and bump the Wormhole Generator over one spot on the Mantis board, and then I'll make boards based on the current version of everything. Don't know when I'll have em done, might take a few days, but as soon as they're done I'll post them. There's a good chance I won't have time to playtest them myself for a few weeks as right now our boardgame group is having an influx of new players and so we haven't even been playing with the diplomacy mods we made up and virtually always play with. We've had a new (to Eclipse at least) player in three out of our last four sessions, and this week we have two or maybe even three new players. I feel like I'm teaching the game every single time I play!
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Mistah Frooza
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Horror Leader wrote:
Let's just make an FTL boardgame!


Can't we just retheme Space Cadet?
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Paul Olson
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I know the feeling about always feeling like you're teaching the game to new players. But I found once doing so enough, we weeded out the players who just wanted to learn a new game and finally have a group of consistent players. I am hopeless when it comes to starting hexes, but I know Vanish does good work and has helped out on a few (these might be tricky though especially for the Slugs and Crystals). If you get the boards up, I'll try and play test a few of them as well and let you know how they play.
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Locke Balenska
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This is a cool idea. Just some random additional brainstorming I'll toss in (both feedback to your ideas and some new ones):


Zoltan

In FTL: lower health, explode on death, provide energy to systems, ships often have supershields

Eclipse variant: I assume your Conifold Field was meant to match the FTL supershields? Makes sense to me. Doesn't seem like you included anything matching their providing energy to systems - how about their ships have huge built-in power sources (more so than Orion)? Not sure how you could do the low health/explode on death aspects... maybe population are always killed like the Planta? Or population always go straight back to population tracks instead of graveyards? Given that conifold fields + extra built-in power will be extremely strong, the straight-back-to-tracks idea might be a big enough weakness to balance them out a bit.


Slugs

In FTL: Detect lifeforms, live in nebulas, somewhat telepathic.

Eclipse variant: the starting Nebula and precognition are cool ideas. Other telepathy ideas might be flipping colony ships to re-roll enemy dice (the reverse of Lyra) or nullifying one ship part of enemy ship type per round (thematically: sensing and mind controlling the crew within).


Rockmen

In FTL: Slow, high health, immune to fire. Tend to use lots of missiles. Ships usually have Rock Plating (15% chance to ignore damage).

Eclipse variant: You've already got the missiles and low initiative, so that works. Fire immunity + high HP = takes 1 extra damage point per system to destroy population? (ie: if a hex has 3 cubes, the attackers must get 4 hits to remove all cubes)


Mantis

In FTL: Faster and more damage (crew, but not necessarily ships). Slower repair. Tend to use boarding parties a lot and thematically take slaves (esp. Engi).

Eclipse variant: I don't know about the extra initiative - the mantis ships in FTL aren't usually any faster or slower, just the mantises themselves are. Wormhole generator, too, seems a bit too high-tech for them considering the Zoltan and Engi should be more technologically advanced. I think it'd be great to bring the boarding party/slaves aspect to the mantises. Maybe something like after every victorious battle, the last ship they destroy is converted to a mantis ship. Or give them a special rare tech that is an inter-ship teleporter ship part, which works like an ion cannon, but can only be used on a ship with 1 HP remaining. If it hits, you take over that ship (and it continues in the battle, so could then be destroyed by its former allies now that it is at 1 HP).


Engi

In FTL: Double repair speed, weaker crew attack, tendency to use lots of drones

Eclipse variant: You've got the repair modules, so that's already perfect. Could consider point defense system as a starting tech to represent defense drones.


Crystal

In FTL: slightly slower movement, slightly higher crew HP, can lockdown individual rooms of a ship, use crystal weapons (slightly shield piercing), most ships have Crystal Vengeance (10% chance when being hit of automatically firing a retaliation shot)

Eclipse variant: The Lockdown thing is really hard to adapt smoothly. I don't know if I like the locking down a whole hex thing, seems a bit of a stretch to take it from one room to a whole hex (and boy would that be unbalancing... just turtle and lockdown your chokepoint hex every single round... *especially* with the more remote homeworld). Maybe here is where you could use that nullify-one-enemy-ship-part-per-round idea. The crystal vengeance thing could be implemented as something like flip-a-colony-ship-to-deal-1-damage sort of thing.


Lanius

In FTL: slower movement, suck oxygen out of rooms and don't need to breathe. Tend to be found scavenging destroyed ships.

Eclipse variant: I like the depleted atmosphere bit, that's a great way to use the oxygen depletion beyond within ships. You could give them something like the Rho Indi pillage ability, but for materials instead, to signify their absorbing materials from destroyed ships after battles.
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Mistah Frooza
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skir wrote:
This is a cool idea. Just some random additional brainstorming I'll toss in (both feedback to your ideas and some new ones):


Hey thanks! I'm glad to have others brainstorm with me

skir wrote:

Zoltan

In FTL: lower health, explode on death, provide energy to systems, ships often have supershields

Eclipse variant: I assume your Conifold Field was meant to match the FTL supershields? Makes sense to me. Doesn't seem like you included anything matching their providing energy to systems - how about their ships have huge built-in power sources (more so than Orion)? Not sure how you could do the low health/explode on death aspects... maybe population are always killed like the Planta? Or population always go straight back to population tracks instead of graveyards? Given that conifold fields + extra built-in power will be extremely strong, the straight-back-to-tracks idea might be a big enough weakness to balance them out a bit.


You're right about the Conifold Field. I did actually include extra energy, they have the same energy bonuses as Orion. Giving them more would be excessive I think, and they're already hard to reign in balance-wise. Speaking of, I like the idea of balancing them by giving them the planta "everyone has neutron bombs against me" thing, I'll be doing that when I make the boards.

skir wrote:

Slugs

In FTL: Detect lifeforms, live in nebulas, somewhat telepathic.

Eclipse variant: the starting Nebula and precognition are cool ideas. Other telepathy ideas might be flipping colony ships to re-roll enemy dice (the reverse of Lyra) or nullifying one ship part of enemy ship type per round (thematically: sensing and mind controlling the crew within).


I like flipping colony ships thing but for now I'm going to play them as they are and see if they are balanced or not. However, I might adjust that in somehow if I end up adjusting their balance later.

skir wrote:

Rockmen

In FTL: Slow, high health, immune to fire. Tend to use lots of missiles. Ships usually have Rock Plating (15% chance to ignore damage).

Eclipse variant: You've already got the missiles and low initiative, so that works. Fire immunity + high HP = takes 1 extra damage point per system to destroy population? (ie: if a hex has 3 cubes, the attackers must get 4 hits to remove all cubes)


I gave the Rockmen the Neutron Absorber, so they can't be destroyed by Neutron Bombs. I feel this is enough. Also, the Rockmen only get 1 movement per action so they are VERY slow.

skir wrote:

Mantis

In FTL: Faster and more damage (crew, but not necessarily ships). Slower repair. Tend to use boarding parties a lot and thematically take slaves (esp. Engi).

Eclipse variant: I don't know about the extra initiative - the mantis ships in FTL aren't usually any faster or slower, just the mantises themselves are. Wormhole generator, too, seems a bit too high-tech for them considering the Zoltan and Engi should be more technologically advanced. I think it'd be great to bring the boarding party/slaves aspect to the mantises. Maybe something like after every victorious battle, the last ship they destroy is converted to a mantis ship. Or give them a special rare tech that is an inter-ship teleporter ship part, which works like an ion cannon, but can only be used on a ship with 1 HP remaining. If it hits, you take over that ship (and it continues in the battle, so could then be destroyed by its former allies now that it is at 1 HP).


So, with this whole thing I took an approach that was less literal and more geared towards making them fit into Eclipse mechanically, rather than creating lots of new rules around each race. I played with lots of ideas around some kind of a boarding attack but they all seemed to add a lot of clutter and confusion, plus they would have been hard to balance. So instead I asked myself what the essence of the Mantis was, and it seems to me that their specialty is being both aggressive and slippery. The teleporter/boarding thing means that they can sort of just appear out of nowhere and start messing stuff up, which to me seemed well translated in Eclipse terms into, let's just give them wormhole generator really early and see how that goes. So, rather than literally forcing crew teleportation into the game I am liberally interpreting it into a larger scale mechanic (that already exists), so that the Mantis empire will have the over all effect of showing up unexpected at your backdoor, rather than having that effect at the individual ship level.

skir wrote:

Engi

In FTL: Double repair speed, weaker crew attack, tendency to use lots of drones

Eclipse variant: You've got the repair modules, so that's already perfect. Could consider point defense system as a starting tech to represent defense drones.


If playtest shows that the Engi need some beefing up I'll consider swapping Fusion Source for Point Defense.

skir wrote:

Crystal

In FTL: slightly slower movement, slightly higher crew HP, can lockdown individual rooms of a ship, use crystal weapons (slightly shield piercing), most ships have Crystal Vengeance (10% chance when being hit of automatically firing a retaliation shot)

Eclipse variant: The Lockdown thing is really hard to adapt smoothly. I don't know if I like the locking down a whole hex thing, seems a bit of a stretch to take it from one room to a whole hex (and boy would that be unbalancing... just turtle and lockdown your chokepoint hex every single round... *especially* with the more remote homeworld). Maybe here is where you could use that nullify-one-enemy-ship-part-per-round idea. The crystal vengeance thing could be implemented as something like flip-a-colony-ship-to-deal-1-damage sort of thing.


Again, here's an example of me being liberal rather than literal. Considering they have a warp portal in their Homeworld, it's not really much better for turtling than anyone else's if a bunch of portals come up/the development is available. Besides, it's really hard to turn turtling into a victory, and on top of that they can only lock one hex, period, and this is the main thing they have going for them. I think it'll be much better used offensively (stop other people from screwing up your assault on the center, for instance) than defensively. Anyway, I'm going to try them as they are currently written. I like the crystal vengeance idea though, so if I need to rebalance them I will rebalance around that.

skir wrote:

Lanius

In FTL: slower movement, suck oxygen out of rooms and don't need to breathe. Tend to be found scavenging destroyed ships.

Eclipse variant: I like the depleted atmosphere bit, that's a great way to use the oxygen depletion beyond within ships. You could give them something like the Rho Indi pillage ability, but for materials instead, to signify their absorbing materials from destroyed ships after battles.


I really think the Rho Indi pillage ability for materials would be way too powerful. I like the idea of wrapping materials up in their victory and trade rate better. That could be just me though.


Thanks for all the feedback!
 
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Locke Balenska
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Yeah, I was definitely just going for creatively applying the FTL concepts literally in my ideas, not really making an effort to be pragmatic or balanced. Other posters up-thread already had good comments on balance and complexity, so why not let my unreasonable creativity go wild


I disagree about it being really hard to turn turtling into a victory, though! With the 3-WH Crystal HW, it'd be easy enough to explore Tier 2 first, orient it away from your neighbour, and then just explore into tier 3 and isolate yourself while locking down the homeworld every round, blocking the warp portal. If you *know* that no one will be able to attack you until they get wormhole generators (or Jump Drive, but that's fairly unlikely your neighbour will get it early; and let's assume no Lyra/Mantis next to you) you don't even need to bother with building ships or researching ship parts for the first 6 rounds or so, you can just go straight for the Advanced techs and Quantum Grid earlier than most people can because they are trying to keep their fleet competitive.

By the time one of your neighbours manages to research it, you can have accumulated a ton of materials since you never built+lost a ship, and your huge virtual fleet will be extremely intimidating. In the meantime, you can still grab some rep VP from fighting ancients you explore, and the Warp Portal still allows you to exchange ambassadors with anyone else who explores/builds one - since they are unable to attack you there's no reason for them not to exchange ambassadors and get a cube bonus, themselves.

By the end of round 9, assuming you had to use about 25 materials for successful defense against a neighbour who researched WHGs, there's a good chance you would still have enough leftover for a couple monoliths or the shellworld. Your hexes won't be great, but I think you could make up for that fairly easily with building things, discoveries and developments.

VP could end up something like this:

Hexes - 10
Tech - 10 (should be pretty easy to finish 2 tracks if you can rush Advanced Labs and Economy early)
Discoveries - 8 (at the very least, any ship parts or free tech you find you are going to take for points because you don't need to fight, and since you are exploring all in the outer sectors there are lots of discoveries to be found)
Ambassadors - 2
Rep - 3
Monoliths - 12
Development/Construction - 4

Maybe that was a bit generous, but it adds up to pushing near 50 VP, and even 40 would be doing very well. Obviously this is assuming things go your way, but the thing with this Lockdown ability is that it prevents almost everyone from doing anything to stop things from going your way!!!


tl;dr I still think the Lockdown is too overpowered because there's nothing anyone else can do to stop it.

But hey, if you want to playtest these races over the forum I'd be glad to help. I'll try to pick Crystal and validate my own argument
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Mistah Frooza
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I think your estimated are a bit too generous, but I see your point. Cutting yourself off from the majority of the I and II tiles and the center won't leave them in a particularly good position economically. They have no exploration advantage (a la Draco or Planta, or even arguably Eridani) so they won't be likely to explore an incredible amount of tiles, leaving them economically stagnant. Ultimately, I think the potential to use lockdown offensively is much stronger. However, I am still moved to make some adjustment. I am considering making it requiring an Influence action but allowing it to be moved around if you influence multiple times? Will ponder.
 
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-=::) Dante (::=-
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I cannot wait to use these once they've been play tested a bit and someone has posted downloadable print and play versions. Great idea!
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Sean B
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Lockdown works better thematically as "crystal ships cannot be damaged in the first non-missile round of combat" or something along those lines. Still, love all these ideas. I already use the FTL soundtrack when playing eclipse, might as well bring in the races.
 
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Mistah Frooza
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Just wanted to give an update on the status of this project. I am going out of town in the next few days and I doubt I'll get the boards done before I leave. So, just want to be clear, the project is not dead, but it might be a bit before I get these finished.
 
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Forrest & Ryan Driskel
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Good luck with your project. It is a difficult endeavor to finish one race, well, let alone several.
 
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Paul Olson
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HelloLion, are you back in town? What's the status on boards? Eager to play test a few of these out.
 
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Paul Olson
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So I put this thread on my back burner of sorts as I'm intrigued at the ideas of these races. Any word on boards or starting hexes for any of these? My gamer group asked about them last time we played as I told them about them awhile ago and said I'd follow up. Progress? I can try my hand at a couple boards and upload them here.
 
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Paul Olson
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I put together two of the boards. Thoughts?


 
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Kosma Sniezko
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1. He said in a post that he gave the zoltan ships extra power equal to the orion ships. Looks like he just forgot to write it down.

2. The mantis ships don't start with ion cannons. They start with ion turrets. 2 shots each.
 
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Mistah Frooza
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Hey guys,

Sorry for letting this fall by the wayside. As I've mentioned in other threads I made a big cross-country move a few months back and am only now finally getting settled in to my new place. In fact, I just got to play my first game of Eclipse since moving about a week and a half ago. In addition, I no longer have the machine I used to run photoshop on, and I'm not likely to have another photoshop machine for awhile. So, while I wouldn't call this idea dead, I would say that it's on the back burner until I can find the time and get good enough with GIMP to do this kind of editing. Plus, since my new Eclipse group has a lot of newbies and doesn't have a set schedule to get together and play yet, it might also be a little while before I could test these races even if I could make player boards and homeworlds.

In the mean time, if anyone is inclined to make these races or try them please let me know how it goes. Sooner or later I'll try to get to this myself if no one else does, but if people want to try this out for themselves please do.

In the mean time, I do have a couple of small game mods that I'm going to put out there some time in the near future that are focused primarily on diplomacy, so if that sounds interesting to you keep your eyes peeled and I'll probably make a thread within the week.
 
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