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Subject: "Liberals, you were right." rss

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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/17/glenn-beck-iraq-war...

Damn, this floor feels really cold...

Glenn Beck wrote:
"From the beginning, most people on the left were against going into Iraq. I wasn’t.... Liberals, you were right. We shouldn’t have."

"Not one more life. Not one more life. Not one more dollar, not one more airplane, not one more bullet, not one more Marine, not one more arm or leg or eye. Not one more," he said. "This must end now. Now can't we come together on that?"

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Wrayman has persuaded me that Glenn Beck has some genuinely admirable qualities. For all that he sometimes seems nuttier to me than a box of hammers, I've been reluctant to completely write off everything he says or does for a while. Can't say I would take his word on anything, either, but if nothing else, he's often thinking valuably far outside the box.
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Yes I was.

Serious, I was.
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rinelk wrote:
Wrayman has persuaded me that Glenn Beck has some genuinely admirable qualities. For all that he sometimes seems nuttier to me than a box of hammers, I've been reluctant to completely write off everything he says or does for a while. Can't say I would take his word on anything, either, but if nothing else, he's often thinking valuably far outside the box.

I admire Mr. Beck's sense of civic virtue. I just wish he had a better filter about who to trust for information on subjects that he doesn't know that much about. He takes a lot of cranks at face value it seems.

Darilian
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Darilian wrote:
rinelk wrote:
Wrayman has persuaded me that Glenn Beck has some genuinely admirable qualities. For all that he sometimes seems nuttier to me than a box of hammers, I've been reluctant to completely write off everything he says or does for a while. Can't say I would take his word on anything, either, but if nothing else, he's often thinking valuably far outside the box.

I admire Mr. Beck's sense of civic virtue. I just wish he had a better filter about who to trust for information on subjects that he doesn't know that much about. He takes a lot of cranks at face value it seems.

Darilian


Yeah, I wonder what stock people are placing in that fuckface Alex Jones these days. Y'know, now that he's got a couple of [STAGED!] cops' deaths on his hands.
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bbenston wrote:
Darilian wrote:
rinelk wrote:
Wrayman has persuaded me that Glenn Beck has some genuinely admirable qualities. For all that he sometimes seems nuttier to me than a box of hammers, I've been reluctant to completely write off everything he says or does for a while. Can't say I would take his word on anything, either, but if nothing else, he's often thinking valuably far outside the box.

I admire Mr. Beck's sense of civic virtue. I just wish he had a better filter about who to trust for information on subjects that he doesn't know that much about. He takes a lot of cranks at face value it seems.

Darilian


Yeah, I wonder what stock people are placing in that fuckface Alex Jones these days. Y'know, now that he's got a couple of [STAGED!] cops' deaths on his hands.


He's still got his mansion outside of town here. And he's still printing his paper version of Infowars- you know, for when the Government Crackdown on the Internet comes along.

Never met the guy. Hard for me to figure out if he believes his own bullshit, or if its all just an act, or some mixture of the two.

Darilian
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Darilian wrote:
bbenston wrote:
Darilian wrote:
rinelk wrote:
Wrayman has persuaded me that Glenn Beck has some genuinely admirable qualities. For all that he sometimes seems nuttier to me than a box of hammers, I've been reluctant to completely write off everything he says or does for a while. Can't say I would take his word on anything, either, but if nothing else, he's often thinking valuably far outside the box.

I admire Mr. Beck's sense of civic virtue. I just wish he had a better filter about who to trust for information on subjects that he doesn't know that much about. He takes a lot of cranks at face value it seems.

Darilian


Yeah, I wonder what stock people are placing in that fuckface Alex Jones these days. Y'know, now that he's got a couple of [STAGED!] cops' deaths on his hands.


He's still got his mansion outside of town here. And he's still printing his paper version of Infowars- you know, for when the Government Crackdown on the Internet comes along.

Never met the guy. Hard for me to figure out if he believes his own bullshit, or if its all just an act, or some mixture of the two.

Darilian


Wonder if he could be sued under wrongful death/negligent infliction of emotional distress. Because he definitely should.
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Koldfoot wrote:
Beck is wrong. As usual. No one (except Buchanan) was against the war in Iraq until long after it started.

He may, however, be right that we shouldn't go back.

The justification for going in was that Iraq was the point where terrorists were most likely to obtain WMDs. The reasoning was sound at the time, what with Iraq hindering WMD inspectors and all, but now... not so much.

We may want to do it for other reasons now, but I would need some convincing.


There certainly wasn't a huge rush to war from the American people- at least, not for a war without support from the UN, which is what we ended up with. A March 2003 poll from USA Today concluded

Quote:
By a 2-to-1 ratio, Americans favor invading Iraq with U.S. ground troops to remove Saddam Hussein from power. Not since November 2001 have they approved so overwhelmingly. Nearly six in 10 say they're ready for such an invasion "in the next week or two."

But that support drops off if the U.N. backing being sought by the United States, Britain and Spain Monday is not obtained. If the U.N. Security Council rejects a resolution paving the way for military action, only 54% of Americans favor a U.S. invasion. And if the Bush administration does not seek a final Security Council vote, support for a war drops to 47%.


http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-16-po...

However, I would agree that a lot of the political and media elites supported the idea of the invasion, albeit some with caveats. Heck, even Maureen Dowd of the New York Times supported the war for a time.

There were many liberal voices who were against the war from the start, however- Kucinich comes mind, as does my Congressman Lloyd Doggett. But you would be correct if you wanted to imply that the Democrats in 2003 weren't very interested in being seen as a roadblock to Bush's drumbeat for war.

Darilian
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Darilian wrote:
There were many liberal voices who were against the war from the start, however- Kucinich comes mind, as does my Congressman Lloyd Doggett. But you would be correct if you wanted to imply that the Democrats in 2003 weren't very interested in being seen as a roadblock to Bush's drumbeat for war.


As I recall, Bush et al were pretty busy calling out anyone that did not support them as treasonous, and traitors.
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49xjohn wrote:
Darilian wrote:
There were many liberal voices who were against the war from the start, however- Kucinich comes mind, as does my Congressman Lloyd Doggett. But you would be correct if you wanted to imply that the Democrats in 2003 weren't very interested in being seen as a roadblock to Bush's drumbeat for war.


As I recall, Bush et al were pretty busy calling out anyone that did not support them as treasonous, and traitors.


Bush let Karl Rove and Darth Cheney do that.

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49xjohn wrote:
Darilian wrote:
There were many liberal voices who were against the war from the start, however- Kucinich comes mind, as does my Congressman Lloyd Doggett. But you would be correct if you wanted to imply that the Democrats in 2003 weren't very interested in being seen as a roadblock to Bush's drumbeat for war.


As I recall, Bush et al were pretty busy calling out anyone that did not support them as treasonous, and traitors.


So liberals were against it, they were just too cowardly to come out at the time?
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GameCrossing wrote:
49xjohn wrote:
Darilian wrote:
There were many liberal voices who were against the war from the start, however- Kucinich comes mind, as does my Congressman Lloyd Doggett. But you would be correct if you wanted to imply that the Democrats in 2003 weren't very interested in being seen as a roadblock to Bush's drumbeat for war.


As I recall, Bush et al were pretty busy calling out anyone that did not support them as treasonous, and traitors.


So liberals were against it, they were just too cowardly to come out at the time?


Would cowardice on the part of elected officials surprise anyone?
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GameCrossing wrote:
49xjohn wrote:
Darilian wrote:
There were many liberal voices who were against the war from the start, however- Kucinich comes mind, as does my Congressman Lloyd Doggett. But you would be correct if you wanted to imply that the Democrats in 2003 weren't very interested in being seen as a roadblock to Bush's drumbeat for war.


As I recall, Bush et al were pretty busy calling out anyone that did not support them as treasonous, and traitors.


So liberals were against it, they were just too cowardly to come out at the time?


Very few liberals here in RSP were openly against getting Saddam out of the picture. This thread will be a classic example of hindsight bias as libtards rush to support Glenn Beck and proclaim they were against it all to begin with.

What actually happened in RSP is procrastination. The Libtards spent all their time criticizing Bush and Cheney and shouting HALLIBURTON! in unison while they waited to see where the chips would fall so they could rush in and claim that's what they believed all along.

And this thread proves, yet again, the Tripp Axiom, or Tripp Effect, or whatever you want to call it - liberals are the audience for conservative radio, TV, and online shows and all the rest of us have to do is wait and some Libtard will tell us what Beck said or where Alex Jones lives and whether or not Rush has mega-ditto'd his way to another $50M dollar contract.
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GameCrossing wrote:
49xjohn wrote:
Darilian wrote:
There were many liberal voices who were against the war from the start, however- Kucinich comes mind, as does my Congressman Lloyd Doggett. But you would be correct if you wanted to imply that the Democrats in 2003 weren't very interested in being seen as a roadblock to Bush's drumbeat for war.


As I recall, Bush et al were pretty busy calling out anyone that did not support them as treasonous, and traitors.


So liberals were against it, they were just too cowardly to come out at the time?


What utter BS. You really don't remember protests? I do. I remember participating in them.
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Kelsey Rinella
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DWTripp wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
49xjohn wrote:
Darilian wrote:
There were many liberal voices who were against the war from the start, however- Kucinich comes mind, as does my Congressman Lloyd Doggett. But you would be correct if you wanted to imply that the Democrats in 2003 weren't very interested in being seen as a roadblock to Bush's drumbeat for war.


As I recall, Bush et al were pretty busy calling out anyone that did not support them as treasonous, and traitors.


So liberals were against it, they were just too cowardly to come out at the time?


Very few liberals here in RSP were openly against getting Saddam out of the picture. This thread will be a classic example of hindsight bias as libtards rush to support Glenn Beck and proclaim they were against it all to begin with.


Was there an RSP in 2003? I recall being pissed that the Senate had voted to just hand off their Constitutionally-required declaration of war powers to the presidency, but even I don't even remember whether there was some other method of getting rid of Saddam which I'd have supported. If you'd been on a college campus around then, though, it wouldn't have been hard to find anti-war liberals.
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DWTripp wrote:
GameCrossing wrote:
49xjohn wrote:
Darilian wrote:
There were many liberal voices who were against the war from the start, however- Kucinich comes mind, as does my Congressman Lloyd Doggett. But you would be correct if you wanted to imply that the Democrats in 2003 weren't very interested in being seen as a roadblock to Bush's drumbeat for war.


As I recall, Bush et al were pretty busy calling out anyone that did not support them as treasonous, and traitors.


So liberals were against it, they were just too cowardly to come out at the time?


Very few liberals here in RSP were openly against getting Saddam out of the picture. This thread will be a classic example of hindsight bias as libtards rush to support Glenn Beck and proclaim they were against it all to begin with.

What actually happened in RSP is procrastination. The Libtards spent all their time criticizing Bush and Cheney and shouting HALLIBURTON! in unison while they waited to see where the chips would fall so they could rush in and claim that's what they believed all along.

And this thread proves, yet again, the Tripp Axiom, or Tripp Effect, or whatever you want to call it - liberals are the audience for conservative radio, TV, and online shows and all the rest of us have to do is wait and some Libtard will tell us what Beck said or where Alex Jones lives and whether or not Rush has mega-ditto'd his way to another $50M dollar contract.


I don't know what the fuck you're talking about Tripp, but I've always admitted that I supported O:IF in 2003, and even voted to re-elect Bush in 2004 when things started going to shit because I felt it was my duty as a citizen to support the CiC to try and make things better.

It wasn't until Iraq started going into the abyss in 2005 that I realized that Bush wasn't just conducting the war in a criminally incompetent manner, but that all of the premises used to justify the war were in fact complete bullshit.

But I freely admit that at the time, I too was caught up in the mood of the country. I don't think that 'everyone was in favor of it'- that's total bullshit. I had many arguments with many people over the issue. I remember that in the wake of 9/11, most people were willing to give Pres. Bush the benefit of the doubt on the subject.

Everyone was wrong about Iraq- even the anti-war protestors. After all, most of them underestimated how awful the war was going to be, both to American servicemen and women, and to the Iraqi people.

No one saw this abyss. But only those who had the courage to stand up against the President and a vocal majority and caution against invasion were even REMOTELY close to being right.

This current attempt at historical amnesia- "Everyone was in favor of O:IF!!!" is a patent attempt by the Right to avoid blame for what could arguably be considered to be the most horrifying foreign policy debacle of American History. Vietnam and its aftermath looks GOOD in comparison to this mess with ISIS right now.

Darilian
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Koldfoot wrote:
30% were against war. That was astoundingly low.

Being against a war is nothing. Being for a war is really sticking your neck out. If a war fails you will be called to account if it fails if you supported it. If a war succeeds and you opposed you can always say you thought at the time diplomacy should have been used for longer, but once war was declared you supported it.

I'd have thought 40% of Americans would oppose every war every time. I find 30% to be so astoundingly low as to be virtually unanimous. 30% represents people who are afraid of boogie men, the global warming hoax, and a tiny percent of admirable people who live what they preach.


Koldie-
You're misrepresenting that poll.
The USA Today poll showed support for O:IF in the context of it being a UN operation, like Desert Storm. WITHOUT UN sanction, support for the war was considerably shakier.

It's completely untrue to argue that the vast majority of the American People supported O:IF in the form it took, as a 'Coalition of the Willing' and not as a United Nations force.

Darilian
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Darilian wrote:
49xjohn wrote:
Darilian wrote:
There were many liberal voices who were against the war from the start, however- Kucinich comes mind, as does my Congressman Lloyd Doggett. But you would be correct if you wanted to imply that the Democrats in 2003 weren't very interested in being seen as a roadblock to Bush's drumbeat for war.

As I recall, Bush et al were pretty busy calling out anyone that did not support them as treasonous, and traitors.

Bush let Karl Rove and Darth Cheney do that.

How dare you Darthify Dick Cheney's first name!

Whereas Darth Vader actually fought in battles in "Star Wars", Dick Cheney avoided military service altogether and got a half dozen draft deferments.

No, no matter which version you prefer, Dick Cheney was, is, and forever will be The Penguin.


The Burgess Meredith Version of The Penguin





The Danny Devito Version of The Penguin







Dick "The Penguin" Cheney





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Let me paste some Wikipedia Protests on February 15, 2003:

Spain saw demonstrations in around 55 cities and towns across the country;[22] the largest was probably in the capital city Madrid, where between 660,000 (Government source’s estimate) and 2,000,000 (GLW estimate) took part in what was probably the biggest demonstration since the death of the fascist dictator Francisco Franco in 1975.[22] Barcelona also had a large, with estimates of 350,000 (Delegación de Gobierno), 1,300,000 (Barcelona city hall and Police) or 1,500,000 (GLW) people[29] joining a demonstration which moved from the Passeig de Gràcia to the Plaça de Tetuan. Spain also had demonstrations of approximately 500,000 in Valencia (GLW estimate), 250,000 in Seville (GLW estimate) (200,000 Government sources estimate), 100,000 in Las Palmas de Gran Canaria (GLW estimate) and 100,000 in Cadiz' (GLW estimate) as well as over fifty other towns and cities across the country (WSWS estimate).[23] Particularly remarkable was the turnout in the small Asturian city of Oviedo which had a turnout of 100,000 even though its total population was only 180,000.[30]

So not only I was against intervention (mostly because the reasons seemed like BS), but over half of my hometown seemed to agree enough to go to a demonstration.
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Koldfoot wrote:
Beck is wrong. As usual. No one (except Buchanan) was against the war in Iraq until long after it started.

Bull.

Fucking.

Shit.

You guys have no goddamn shame. Obama stumped against the war (which probably doesn't matter because BARRY O'BUMMER BIN-BAMA AM I RITE?), ANSWER got some large-scale protests rolling, the largest anti-war rally in history was held on 2-15-03, the day after the invasion started there were massive protests.

Edward Kennedy was against it, Howard Dean was against it, Dennis Kucinich was against it...

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2002/roll455.xml

Those people who voted "nay" were against it. Most of them were Dems. Some weren't. None of them were Pat Buchanan.

All of those entertainers who were told to "shut up and sing" were against it. Some were called traitors and accused of dishonoring the 9-11 dead.

Not that it matters, but I was against it. So were some other people in this thread. So was my dad, and my granddad. The church I used to attend organized a small protest.

"No one (except Buchanan) was against the war in Iraq..." Jesus. How fucking dull can you get?
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GameCrossing wrote:
49xjohn wrote:
Darilian wrote:
There were many liberal voices who were against the war from the start, however- Kucinich comes mind, as does my Congressman Lloyd Doggett. But you would be correct if you wanted to imply that the Democrats in 2003 weren't very interested in being seen as a roadblock to Bush's drumbeat for war.


As I recall, Bush et al were pretty busy calling out anyone that did not support them as treasonous, and traitors.


So liberals were against it, they were just too cowardly to come out at the time?


I was against it.

It didn't make any sense to me.

Osama Bin Ladin had attacked us and GB Jr was going to show OBL by attacking Saddam while OBL was rumored to be in Afganistan.

As my hero Craig Ferguson would say, "What the hell, man?"

And then I was like, "ooooo. This is actually about GB Jr vs GB Sr. And oil."

Sure the iraqi's lead by Saddam were evil. But they were evil before and will be evil after Saddam.
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Koldfoot wrote:
And who do you claim to represent?

You are viewed as a leader in what circles?

I noted later that certain people who are just as deserving as you of being ignored were also against the war, as were other assorted chickenshits who always cringe at the thought of war.

There was even a sizable number of people so misguided that they were against taking on Hitler. We ignore them. You are proud to be one. Surprise!!!!


"Not that it matters" means that I don't matter, butthole. I know I don't represent anyone, but feel free to ignore all of those other leaders, masses of people, and all the other evidence that proves your dipshit assertion is blatantly false.

Good work on the appeasement dig. I remember that one from back in the day. Dumb liberals are either so disingenuous that they pretend they were against the Iraq war (when they actually supported it) or they are little Chamberlains who are pussies that you could totally whup. Either way they are bad, because, you know... LIBERALS!
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Like I said - hindsight bias. Classic case of waiting to see how it's going to shake out before betting on a horse. No there wasn't an "RSP", but many of the same players were here from 2004 on up to the 2007-2008 era.

It's easy enough for some weak-kneed fucktard on the Left Coast to suddenly claim he/she/it was always against war, this war, that war, give peace a chance war. The votes on the hill were landslides. Howard fucking Dean? Who the fuck cares what that moron was on about? And yeah, Obummer was against the war, no shit. That's because he was pissed the killing wasn't being done by him. That fucking guy got his ass planted in the oval office and started assassinating Americans, civilians, bystanders and anyone handy with his Drone War. So anyone who claims he's some sort of fucking Half-Black Golfing Gandhi is plain stupid.

Just for fun some of you morons ought to use Google for something other than porn or climate change confirmation links. As "not fun" and as serious as Iraq has been, for Americans as well as the citizens and others who live in the region and are cruelly affected by the non-stop, centuries old bloodbaths there... this thing hasn't even risen to the level of a really bad day during WWII. Now that, that was some serious fucking carnage.

Based on the information being presented by the media, the Administration, European and other intelligence sources and eyes in the region, there really wasn't any other thing Bush and 90+% of the elected officials could do. The reason I voted for Bush in 2004 (not in 2000 though) was simple - he was CinC and we were involved in what appeared to be a serious war situation. Still are today... only now we have a guy even more stupid than any president in the last 250 years running the show.

Yeah. Liberals, you are always right because you always hedge your bets and shirk taking a firm stand on anything. Protests... whoopie... did you do that from your local Starbucks using your Twitter account and doing the #PeaceNow thing?
 
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Glenn Beck: Liberals were against the war. I think they might've been right on this one, single thing.

RSP Conservatives: No they weren't. Everyone was for the war.

RSP Liberals: Yes, we were. There were also these other people who were against it. Take a look at these links.

RSP Conservatives: Fuck you. You are all pussies and nobody cares what you said back then because it's all lies or more wimpy leftist bullshit. The point is you're dumb and Obama is a murderer and the worst human ever and grrr Starbucks/Twitter/Things Kids Do. Obama is also a half-black golfer. That's worth mentioning.








The ritual is complete.
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hibikir wrote:
Let me paste some Wikipedia Protests on February 15, 2003:

Spain saw demonstrations in around 55 cities and towns across the country; the largest was probably in the capital city Madrid, where between 660,000 (Government source’s estimate) and 2,000,000 (GLW estimate)


I've seen figures of about 1.5m for Madrid. Rome reportedly had 3m people. London another 1m+. For pretty much every protest throughout Europe the turnout was far higher than the authorities expected.

But as others have said the US also had big protests. About 0.3m in NYC, but other fairly sizable demos in LA, Chicago and Seattle. Probably not quite on the European scale but still a pretty loud voice against war.
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