Recommend
2 
 Thumb up
 Hide
18 Posts

Firefly: The Game» Forums » Rules

Subject: Can You Ever Change Crew On a Job? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Rick Bateman
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
They way I'm reading it now, it appears that when you take the first Work Action on a job, making it Active, you have to set aside what crew will be working it, and what gear they'll be using, until the job is complete. Is there any point when you'd be able to adjust this in any way? Like, if a Misbehave is botched or a warrant is issued? It seems unnecessarily restrictive to never be able to assign different people to a problem, especially with so much uncertainty about what kind of challenges they'll end up facing.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dustin
United States
Kentucky
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That's not how it works.

You assign crew when you do the first part of a job, "a work action". After completing that action on your turn, the crew returns to the ship to be used on other jobs. They are not attached to jobs. You assign again when you want to take a work action to finish a job.

5 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wade Hobby
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mb
You can change crew and gear between parts of the job (such as the pickup of cargo or contraband and it's delivery) but until you 'get back to the ship' you can't change crew or gear.
The key is to try and balance your crew to be able to handle pretty much anything. Hiring crew that can use guns to negotiate etc. is one way. It's a bit more realistic than being able to change crew just cause things don't go your way.
Imagine if they needed technical skill on The Train Job. Would it have been easy to get Kaleigh down there at a moment's notice? It would've been nice to just toss in Zoe and Jayne when Niska grabbed Mal and Wash but they were on the ship and weren't there for the start of the job.
No the rules are right and planning for anything and everything is the only way to go and sometimes you just can't so you take your chances.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Bateman
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
So, you could have one group of crew members for the start of a job and another for the end, but when you're doing a series of multiple Misbehaves, you have to lock in a single group of crew and gear for the whole series?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Dustin
United States
Kentucky
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Rookiebatman wrote:
So, you could have one group of crew members for the start of a job and another for the end, but when you're doing a series of multiple Misbehaves, you have to lock in a single group of crew and gear for the whole series?


Yes
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Bateman
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
So, in that situation, why would you ever not just send your whole crew? It doesn't restrict them from doing anything else, you get to choose who gets killed anyway, and you still have to pay crew members who didn't work the job. Aside from Shepherd Book's special rule, is there any reason at all that you wouldn't commit the whole crew to a series of Misbehaves?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
George Krubski
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
I think the tone of some of these responses may be a little misleading... potentially.

One of the points of contention that comes up around here is whether you actually do get to select your Crew, or whether your entire Crew is automatically committed every time you take a Work action (situations like Shepherd Book aside).

The rule book (page 13) clearly states that you must commit to what Gear you're carrying, but makes no such statement about Crew, implying (to me, at least) that everyone's involved in the job.

I also think folks tend to oversimplify what a Work action is. It's typically not as simple as "Mal and Zoe leave the ship, go shoot some folk, and pick up the goods."

As we see in Firefly, the folk back at the ship are consistently involved in working the job in some way, even if it's just tracking information (as Kaylee does in ARIEL) or swooping in for a speedy getaway (as Wash does multiple times).

Particularly if you're Working a Job with 3-4 Misbehaves, you're looking at something complicated enough that it could be an episode.

To answer your question, my belief is that the rules indicate that you MUST send your whole Crew.

But if you DID have a choice, why would you leave people behind? Shepherd Book and Elder Gommen (Breakin' Atmo) cannot Work Immoral Jobs. The Lawmen (Pirates and Bounty Hunters) can't work Illegal ones.

Arguably, if you have someone who is already Disgruntled, you might want to keep them back on the ship in case you run into a card that Disgruntles the Crew.

Some folk have said that there are times when you might want to "protect" a specific Crew member from death. That seems like hogwash to me, because if someone dies, you get to pick who it is (unless it's Tracey that you're protecting), so all you're really doing is reducing your changes for success.

4 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Bjørnar Løseth
Norway
Bergen
Hordaland
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
gwek wrote:

Some folk have said that there are times when you might want to "protect" a specific Crew member from death. That seems like hogwash to me, because if someone dies, you get to pick who it is (unless it's Tracey that you're protecting), so all you're really doing is reducing your changes for success.


That's not completely right. If you've got a small crew this can be crucial. Often the consequence is 1 or 2 dead. If you send only one of the crew on this job the other one can't be killed. That said this is possibly a rarity, because such jobs definitely needs some crew to finish...
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rick Bateman
msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
That does seem like the main type of situation where it might be useful to leave some at home.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Wade Hobby
United States
Florida
flag msg tools
mb
Yeah if you've got the Interloper you clearly picked only the best and aren't hauling around some Hill folk for cannon fodder.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
George Krubski
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
bloseth wrote:
gwek wrote:

Some folk have said that there are times when you might want to "protect" a specific Crew member from death. That seems like hogwash to me, because if someone dies, you get to pick who it is (unless it's Tracey that you're protecting), so all you're really doing is reducing your changes for success.


That's not completely right. If you've got a small crew this can be crucial. Often the consequence is 1 or 2 dead. If you send only one of the crew on this job the other one can't be killed. That said this is possibly a rarity, because such jobs definitely needs some crew to finish...


1) As noted, the rules don't actually have room for that option, so it's a theoretical discussion.

2) If you're Misbehaving with a small Crew, you get what you deserve. Whole Crew got wiped out? Too bad. It means you shouldn't have risked it!

And, really, leaving people back at the ship (if you could) just increases the changes that those you bring will die. There are only three Misbehave cards that kill more than one Crew: Ace in the Holes aside (River, River, Companion), two of them give you an option with a TRANSPORT, but the other options are Tech and Fight. The third killer card offers you a choice between Talk and Fight - and NO ONE dies with the Talk option.

All things being equal, if you fear those three cards, you want your entire Crew along to help thwart those three cards.

I'm sorry, I don't see any compelling reason to leave anyone behind.
2 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Stewart
United Kingdom
Newcastle-upon-Tyne
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Easy way to remember it is that gear and crew are assigned for a given work action.

Next work action, you assign crew and gear again. Nothing says you have to take note of what you did last time.

As for assigning crew to a Work action, as others have said, whether you can leave some behind without being forced to, only an idiot would, most of the time...

There is that Misbehave card where having an excess of Mercs is unhealthy, so there may be a case for leaving one or more behind, but I'd be more inclined to solve my labour relations issues via constructive dismissal or a more direct expulsion.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brandon Ketchum
United States
New Castle
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
rmsgrey wrote:
Easy way to remember it is that gear and crew are assigned for a given work action.

Next work action, you assign crew and gear again. Nothing says you have to take note of what you did last time.

As for assigning crew to a Work action, as others have said, whether you can leave some behind without being forced to, only an idiot would, most of the time...

There is that Misbehave card where having an excess of Mercs is unhealthy, so there may be a case for leaving one or more behind, but I'd be more inclined to solve my labour relations issues via constructive dismissal or a more direct expulsion.


This is incorrect, as are many of the posts on this thread. Once you start working a job, your gear is locked in. Gear cannot be moved from crew member to crew member, nor can it be bought and equipped. Once you finish all active jobs, you can change gear, but not before. If you're crazy enough to start three jobs that will take a long time to finish, best be satisfied with the gear you got. It isn't only for a work action--it is for as long as you have an open job.

Check out page 13. Don't begin a job unless you have what it takes to finish the job. Now, nowhere in the rules does it say you can't hire crew to help with a job. You can't bring crew members back off the ship (say if your Captain would have been killed, and he gets disgruntled and sent back to the ship), nor can you give these new crew members any gear, but you CAN hire new crew members. Not against the rules.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Hardboiled Gregg
United Kingdom
Reading
Berkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
stout_rugger wrote:
This is incorrect, as are many of the posts on this thread. Once you start working a job, your gear is locked in. Gear cannot be moved from crew member to crew member, nor can it be bought and equipped. Once you finish all active jobs, you can change gear, but not before. If you're crazy enough to start three jobs that will take a long time to finish, best be satisfied with the gear you got. It isn't only for a work action--it is for as long as you have an open job.

Check out page 13. Don't begin a job unless you have what it takes to finish the job. Now, nowhere in the rules does it say you can't hire crew to help with a job. You can't bring crew members back off the ship (say if your Captain would have been killed, and he gets disgruntled and sent back to the ship), nor can you give these new crew members any gear, but you CAN hire new crew members. Not against the rules.

Sorry, Brandon, but you've misunderstood something somewhere. Perhaps because when the rulebook says 'Working a Job' it doesn't necessarily clarify that even if you're flying smuggled goods across the 'verse this is not considered 'Working' in game terms.

What it means when it says 'Working' is that a Work Action is being used to advance a Job. In other words, Crew and Gear are tied up for the duration of a Work Action only. If there are two parts to a Job (Pick Up and Drop Off) then there are two Work Actions required to complete the Job, one at each end. Crew and Gear are not tied up between these two points.

Additionally, when you are checking Job Needs, you do this at the start of each separate Work Action.

If you need any further clarification, please check the 'Work Actions' section on page 4 of the latest Official FAQ here: http://files.geekdo.com/geekfile_download.php?filetype=appli...
6 
 Thumb up
0.01
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Robert Stewart
United Kingdom
Newcastle-upon-Tyne
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
stout_rugger wrote:
rmsgrey wrote:
Easy way to remember it is that gear and crew are assigned for a given work action.

Next work action, you assign crew and gear again. Nothing says you have to take note of what you did last time.

As for assigning crew to a Work action, as others have said, whether you can leave some behind without being forced to, only an idiot would, most of the time...

There is that Misbehave card where having an excess of Mercs is unhealthy, so there may be a case for leaving one or more behind, but I'd be more inclined to solve my labour relations issues via constructive dismissal or a more direct expulsion.


This is incorrect, as are many of the posts on this thread. Once you start working a job, your gear is locked in. Gear cannot be moved from crew member to crew member, nor can it be bought and equipped. Once you finish all active jobs, you can change gear, but not before. If you're crazy enough to start three jobs that will take a long time to finish, best be satisfied with the gear you got. It isn't only for a work action--it is for as long as you have an open job.

Check out page 13. Don't begin a job unless you have what it takes to finish the job. Now, nowhere in the rules does it say you can't hire crew to help with a job. You can't bring crew members back off the ship (say if your Captain would have been killed, and he gets disgruntled and sent back to the ship), nor can you give these new crew members any gear, but you CAN hire new crew members. Not against the rules.


I suspect you've missed a key word from the rules there:

page 13 wrote:
Once you’re Working a Job, Gear can not change hands between Crew until the Job attempt is over.


Both Attempt Botched and Warrant Issued outcomes of Misbehaves explicitly state that the attempt fails - the former lets you make another attempt on a later turn; the latter loses you the Job card. It's not explicitly stated anywhere that I can find that an attempt at a Job ends when you finish the Work action successfully, nor when you complete the Job - closest is where it says "Taking a Work Action allows you to attempt to advance a single Job.". On the other hand, aside from that description of Work actions, there's nothing that tells you what a "Job attempt" is either.

Under your interpretation, what happens if you, say, discard Fast Horses to get a required Transport keyword for a Job then Botch a Misbehave (or just don't have a second Transport handy for the second half)? Are you stuck with that Job impossible to complete for the rest of the game? (okay, you can get some keywords by hiring Crew or getting Ship Mods but supposing it's a discard-to-use keyword that can only be got from Gear...).

Saying that "Job attempt" means that specific Work action is cleaner than saying "Job attempt" means until the Job succeeds or you get a Warrant Issued, and means you're not ignoring the rules about "Attempt Botched" saying that the attempt fails.

The FAQ does say:

FAQ p.2 wrote:
Question: When can you change what Gear Crew are carrying?
Answer: The only time you may not switch Gear is during a Work Action. Other than that, you may change who is carrying what Gear freely. Crew can only carry one piece of Gear at a time. Any Gear not carried by a Crew is considered “Onboard Ship” and may not be used in any way.


which makes it pretty clear that you can shuffle Gear around while you have active Jobs...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Judy Krauss
United States
Pittsburgh
Pennsylvania
flag msg tools
but I'm not the only one
badge
My hands are small, I know, but they're not yours, they are my own
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
HotHeart wrote:
stout_rugger wrote:
This is incorrect, as are many of the posts on this thread. Once you start working a job, your gear is locked in. Gear cannot be moved from crew member to crew member, nor can it be bought and equipped. Once you finish all active jobs, you can change gear, but not before. If you're crazy enough to start three jobs that will take a long time to finish, best be satisfied with the gear you got. It isn't only for a work action--it is for as long as you have an open job.

Check out page 13. Don't begin a job unless you have what it takes to finish the job. Now, nowhere in the rules does it say you can't hire crew to help with a job. You can't bring crew members back off the ship (say if your Captain would have been killed, and he gets disgruntled and sent back to the ship), nor can you give these new crew members any gear, but you CAN hire new crew members. Not against the rules.

Sorry, Brandon, but you've misunderstood something somewhere. Perhaps because when the rulebook says 'Working a Job' it doesn't necessarily clarify that even if you're flying smuggled goods across the 'verse this is not considered 'Working' in game terms.

What it means when it says 'Working' is that a Work Action is being used to advance a Job. In other words, Crew and Gear are tied up for the duration of a Work Action only. If there are two parts to a Job (Pick Up and Drop Off) then there are two Work Actions required to complete the Job, one at each end. Crew and Gear are not tied up between these two points.

Additionally, when you are checking Job Needs, you do this at the start of each separate Work Action.

If you need any further clarification, please check the 'Work Actions' section on page 4 of the latest Official FAQ here: http://files.geekdo.com/geekfile_download.php?filetype=appli...


Here's the link the official page where you can download the FAQ:
http://www.fireflythegame.com/howtoplay/FAQ.aspx

Also, there are some other useful things there.
http://www.fireflythegame.com/howtoplay.aspx
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Tom N
msg tools
mbmb
Do you send your entire crew on jobs or is there a limit? If there's no limit why wouldn't you send everyone every time?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
George Krubski
msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmb
Per the rules, you don't actually select your Crew. Everyone who is eligible to work the job DOES work the job (but, say, Book and Elder Gommen can't work Immoral Jobs, Lawmen can't work Illegal Jobs, etc).

Other than that, you are generally starting with a full Crew, although some circumstances can send folk back to the ship.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.