Recommend
6 
 Thumb up
 Hide
11 Posts

Hammer of the Scots» Forums » General

Subject: KING, WHAT'S THE POINT rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Freddy Dekker
Netherlands
Friesland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As the scottish player you can choose to have a king.

Now I don't understand why I would want to do that, as this means that either way you lose half of your army and as an added loss you'll have to do without the strong Wallace block.
Okay you get one block extra but still.

Not sure if the Baliol king option is optional or is this is a must happen event if you don't pick a king.

other thing I wondered about.
if you slay a nobel he turns sides and returns as a reserve.
I played this: putting him back where he was slain in a vallue of 1, was this wrong?
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Josh Malbon
United States
Santa Cruz
California
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
That sounds about right for the nobles switching sides.

I am not positive, but I remember studying that there was a possibility of having Wallace and The Scottish King, but only in a certain case.

If you already are without most of the nobles that would switch sides, it could be a good move. But once again the particulars all have to aline themselves.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Brian Berg Asklev Hansen
Denmark
Vejle
flag msg tools
designer
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
the king option is more attractive if Wallace is already dead or if you get the Balliol king where Wallace can remain on the map (IIRC)
Also the timing is important as you know which nobles will turn against you if you crown a king, so precautionary measures should be taken before doing it
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Forest Green Hobbit
United States
Montpelier
Vermont
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The reason to crown Balliol King is: you win the game. A likely situation: the 8 nobles one has to bring the French Knights to the draw pool will be Ross, Moray, Comyn, Buchan, Angus, Mar, Atholl, Argyl. Of these, only Mar and Atholl will defect if you crown King Balliol. That is not nearly half your nobles much less half your entire army. All one needs to do is move Mar and a full strength Wallace and French Knights into Atholl and play a coronation event card. Atholl and Mar will then be attacking full strength Wallace, King Balliol and the French Knights, all of whom roll first. There is a good chance (50/50) you will get Atholl and Mar back, and if not, they will be very week and will need to retreat.

Once the Scots have Wallace, King Balliol and the French Knights on the map, the English have little chance to win the game. Obviously, the English should not let this happen.
9 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Steve
United Kingdom
Farnham
Surrey
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mb
sagitar wrote:
As the scottish player you can choose to have a king.

Now I don't understand why I would want to do that, as this means that either way you lose half of your army and as an added loss you'll have to do without the strong Wallace block.
Okay you get one block extra but still.

Not sure if the Baliol king option is optional or is this is a must happen event if you don't pick a king.

If you've already lost those nobles, you have nothing further to lose.

Quote:
other thing I wondered about.
if you slay a nobel he turns sides and returns as a reserve.
I played this: putting him back where he was slain in a vallue of 1, was this wrong?

This looks right to me. He rejoins the battle, strength 1, on the other side in the next combat round.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Benavides
Germany
Wuppertal
Nordrhein-Westfalen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
The point is either to get a really good and powerful block, or to have something to compensate for having lost Wallace, depending on who you crown.

So, there are three people you can crown in the game. Robert Bruce, John Comyn, and John Balliol. Balliol was the previous king and is, during the Braveheart scenario, living in exile in France. Wallace supports Balliol and everybody loves Wallace, so as long as he's alive, Balliol is the only person the Scots can have for their King.

The main advantage to getting Balliol is that you don't have to have Fife to get him, nor does it actually matter if Wallace is alive or not if you go for him. You just have to get enough lords to get the French Knights in your pool, get the Knights on the board, and play an even card. Boom, you have a King. All of the Bruce supporters change sides, but most of them are in the south anyways, so they're likely to already be held by the English when you do this. Also, since you know you're going to do it, you can arrange to have the Bruce nobles in spaces with lots of other units so that they can be quickly subdued again after they switch sides. Doing this will give you a powerful unit to move around the board and fight with and is generally well worth working towards.

Alternatively, if Wallace is dead, then it's anybody's crown, basically. You can keep working towards Balliol, but if the French Knights are dead, or you never managed to get them at all, you may want to crown either Comyn or Bruce at Fife instead. It's not as easy to pull off since you have to get a specific unit to a specific location, but it can often be the only hope a Scottish player has of coming back from a losing position, or the final advantage needed to close out a win. The same strategy for damage control under a Balliol return applies here. Put all of the soon-to-be-traitor nobles together with your larger armies, crown the new guy, then quickly subdue the rebels you upset in doing so.

Once you've chosen your path and put the King block on the map, you no longer have to care about the specific noble blocks. Even if you "crowned" Comyn or whatever, if you lose the Comyn noble block later, nothing special happens to the King. Just be careful not to lose the King in combat because his death is an automatic defeat for the Scots now.


As for Nobles who switch sides...

Combat happens over 3 rounds. At the end of each round, anyone held "in reserve" arrives and is ready to participate in the next round of combat, if any. So, for example, if a Noble were slain on the second round, then he would immediately switch sides and be added to the opposing side's reserves for the battle. He will have a strength of 1.

So, for a more detailed example, Wallace attacks the Angus space. In that space, the English have two blocks, Angus and Mar, both of them nobles. All blocks in this example begin at full strength. In the first round, Wallace fires first because he's an A3. He rolls four hits. Very lucky. Angus and Mar each take two hits, which leaves them at 1 strength each. Now, Mar and Angus can each go because Mar is a B2 and Angus is a B3 (he's defending his home territory). The English player rolls Mar first, and misses. He rolls Angus next and hits. Wallace takes a hit and is down to 3 strength. The round ends. Round 2, Wallace rolls his three dice and gets 1 hit. The English player takes the hit on Mar, who is slain and immediately switches sides. The English player places the Mar block to the side and the Scottish player finds his Mar block and adds it to the battle's reserves with a strength of 1. The English player then rolls Angus's attack and hits. Wallace is now down to 2 strength. At the end of the round, Mar arrives from the reserves and is ready to fight. In the third round, Wallace attacks with both dice and misses. The English then roll for Angus, who gets a hit. The hit is taken on Wallace. Then the Scots roll for Mar, who hits. Angus takes the final hit and switches sides at a strength of 1. Combat is over because the English have no blocks remaining in the battle. The Scottish player now has Wallace, Mar, and Angus all in the Angus space, and each has a strength of 1. He may now "regroup" and move any of his units one space, if he wants.

I hope this cleared up the noble switching sides thing.
12 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Freddy Dekker
Netherlands
Friesland
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
So. See if I get this right.

I crown a king and this means certain nobles turn sides.

So that means instant combat.
They all become enlish at their current strenght? Or strenght 1?


If I manage to 'get rid of' these nobles, that means they turn sides again and support the king they objected to at strenght 1?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Joe Benavides
Germany
Wuppertal
Nordrhein-Westfalen
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Current strength. When a Noble changes sides, it is always at current strength. The only reason they switch sides at Strength 1 in combat is because the hit they're taking is making them switch sides instead of be destroyed.


So, as an example, if you Crowned Comyn, then all of your Bruce nobles would immediately switch sides at current strength. If they were in stacks with other blocks of yours, then there's an immediate fight. If you manage to do enough hits to destroy the noble, then he'll switch sides back to you, as normal, with a strength of 1, because the last hit caused him to join you again instead of destroy him.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mark Watson
United Kingdom
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmb
sagitar wrote:

They all become enlish at their current strenght? Or strenght 1?

Current strength IIRC, same as if you occupied their home territory during winter.
Quote:

If I manage to 'get rid of' these nobles, that means they turn sides again and support the king they objected to at strenght 1?

If you defeat them in combat that would be the case.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jim Lee

Georgia
msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Forest Green Hobbit: If the 8 noble threshhold is met by the Scots, the French Knights are added to the pool. However, if the Scots dip below 8 nobles on their side, do they lose the French Knights from the draw pool?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
george seary
United States
endwell
New York
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Once the French Knights enter the draw pool (during Winter), they do not get removed if the Scots own less than 8 nobles during a later winter turn.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.