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Subject: OP Month #2 cards - Spider-Man the Amaze-balls! rss

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Kevin Warrender
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http://marvel.com/news/toys/2014/6/19/22724/join_in_the_acti...

Certainly better power than Wall-Crawler, but a more expensive one in purchase cost AND ability trigger (which makes sense).

If you enjoy pulling off incredible combos - this card is for you!
 
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Thomas Landy
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jerkules wrote:
http://marvel.com/news/toys/2014/6/19/22724/join_in_the_acti...

Certainly better power than Wall-Crawler, but a more expensive one in purchase cost AND ability trigger (which makes sense).

If you enjoy pulling off incredible combos - this card is for you!


What does he do? When I go to that site, I can't see it. Rally is on top of it.

Rally is great for Green Goblin and Captain America.
 
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Steve Cates
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When Spider-man attacks, you may spend 3[fist] to make your opponent lose half his life, rounded down (before damage is dealt).

Cost: 6 fist
Max: 2
Affil: Avengers
-------------------------------------
Rally!

Move up to 2 sidekicks from your used pile to the field.

**Move 3 sidekicks instead.
 
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Kevin Warrender
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I had that happen too first time I clicked, but since then it shows up. In any case he is a Cost 6 - Fist - Avengers character with the card text:

When Spider-Man attacks, you may pay (3 Fists) to make your opponent lose half his life, rounded down (before damage is dealt).


So if your opponent is female, she takes no damage? Ha!

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Steve Cates
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I don't see this card getting play but it looks cool.

Rally though, seems broken with Gobby, as if Gobby wasn't already strongshake. I'm thinking people will have to run Force Beam or Doctor Doom: Reed Richards' Rival to handle it.
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Chris Berry
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Rally is going to be a problem with Johnny Storm as well and just in general for deck thinning. If Rally is in play, I can see that action being bought out by turn 3-4 (particularly for a Gobby Deck).
 
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Luke Heineman
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ironcates wrote:
I don't see this card getting play but it looks cool.

Rally though, seems broken with Gobby, as if Gobby wasn't already strong:shake:. I'm thinking people will have to run Force Beam or Doctor Doom: Reed Richards' Rival to handle it.


The word broken is completely over used.
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Atnier Rodriguez
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He looks like he's the one that has lost half his life.
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Steve Cates
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delewobmesid wrote:
Rally is going to be a problem with Johnny Storm as well and just in general for deck thinning. If Rally is in play, I can see that action being bought out by turn 3-4 (particularly for a Gobby Deck).

I believe "move to the field" isn't the same as fielding a character, but if that triggers Human Torch abilities, that is another really powerful combo.
 
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Steve Cates
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lukeheineman99 wrote:
ironcates wrote:
I don't see this card getting play but it looks cool.

Rally though, seems broken with Gobby, as if Gobby wasn't already strongshake. I'm thinking people will have to run Force Beam or Doctor Doom: Reed Richards' Rival to handle it.


The word broken is completely over used.
I did say "seems" which implies that it remains to be seen and I offered a couple of counters. I've played against Gobby now and there are definitely games that are un-winnable and with Rally the fact that you can amass sidekicks it will make more games un-winnable.
 
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Mike Beiter
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okami31 wrote:
He looks like he's the one that has lost half his life.


Yeah, it is a fine picture, but I prefer my heroes to look like they did not just get up from being at ground 0 after a nuclear blast.

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Greg Byrd
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I hate to be dramatic, but if Rally can be used in OP, there is no further point in playing. The combo with Gobby is broken for several reasons:

1. As we all know, Gobby is already pretty good. For now, he can be stopped, but direct damage plus a potential 5/5 for 3 cost is controlling the meta game. You either play Gobby, or build a team to stop him.

2. Now let's add in Rally. Obviously it fuels Gobby's Direct Damage.

3. Less obviously, it makes him more powerful because you are going to cycle through your bag that much quicker with your SK's out of it. One desperate thing people do against Gobby is not block him, especially when he's 2/2 or 3/3, take the damage and hope for a turn or two before he shows up again. With less SK's in the bag, that hope diminishes.

Let's spitball a hypothetical opening:

Turn 1 (the perfect turn- about 50% chance)
Bolt plus 2 energy and an SK.
Buy Gobby, field the SK, pass.

Turn 2 (the horrible turn- not likely)
Four fist energy
Buy Rally, Pass.

Turn 3- the bag is 7 SK's, Gobby, Rally
- If you draw 4 SK's repeat Turn 1 or 2

- If you draw Gobby xor Rally, play them (attack with Gobby) and pass.

- If you draw Gobby and Rally, play Rally, Field Gobby (3+DD) (Four if Rally had 2 bursts), then attack. Your opponent will take the 3+ DD and either take 2-5 more damage or chump block. It's almost certain that Gobby will eventually hit for 2-5 damage.

Turn 4, see turn 3.

After Turn four, your opponent has taken 5 to 9 damage and your bag is now 5 SK's (max), Gobby and Rally, plus whatever you bought on turns 3 and 4 (either another Gobby or another Rally). When you play Rally the second time, your entire bag could easily be 3 SK's, 2 Gobbys and Rally. The Gobbys would be doing 5DD each time they are fielded. On turn 5.

If you field both on turn five, you will almost certainly have lethal when you attack with those 5+ SKs as well. On turn 5.

They're both coming out by turn 6.

That's not far from the worst this deck can do. If you roll bursts on the Rally more often or roll a Shield on turn 2 and use Silver Surfer's global the math just gets worse.

Neither Human Torch nor Force Beam, nor even Quicksilver will be enough to stop this. A Force Beam on Turn 3 wouldn't even reset to Turn 1 above, it would keep the bag the same, but give the Gobby player an extra die on Turn 3 or 4.

There is no other die worth buying once Rally hits the environment. If you can buy Gobby, do. If not, buy Rally.

That is how you will play Marvel Dice Masters, unless you want to lose.

*drops mike*
 
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Thomas Landy
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byrdru wrote:
I hate to be dramatic, but if Rally can be used in OP, there is no further point in playing. The combo with Gobby is broken for several reasons:

1. As we all know, Gobby is already pretty good. For now, he can be stopped, but direct damage plus a potential 5/5 for 3 cost is controlling the meta game. You either play Gobby, or build a team to stop him.

2. Now let's add in Rally. Obviously it fuels Gobby's Direct Damage.

3. Less obviously, it makes him more powerful because you are going to cycle through your bag that much quicker with your SK's out of it. One desperate thing people do against Gobby is not block him, especially when he's 2/2 or 3/3, take the damage and hope for a turn or two before he shows up again. With less SK's in the bag, that hope diminishes.

Let's spitball a hypothetical opening:

Turn 1 (the perfect turn- about 50% chance)
Bolt plus 2 energy and an SK.
Buy Gobby, field the SK, pass.

Turn 2 (the horrible turn- not likely)
Four fist energy
Buy Rally, Pass.

Turn 3- the bag is 7 SK's, Gobby, Rally
- If you draw 4 SK's repeat Turn 1 or 2

- If you draw Gobby xor Rally, play them (attack with Gobby) and pass.

- If you draw Gobby and Rally, play Rally, Field Gobby (3+DD) (Four if Rally had 2 bursts), then attack. Your opponent will take the 3+ DD and either take 2-5 more damage or chump block. It's almost certain that Gobby will eventually hit for 2-5 damage.

Turn 4, see turn 3.

After Turn four, your opponent has taken 5 to 9 damage and your bag is now 5 SK's (max), Gobby and Rally, plus whatever you bought on turns 3 and 4 (either another Gobby or another Rally). When you play Rally the second time, your entire bag could easily be 3 SK's, 2 Gobbys and Rally. The Gobbys would be doing 5DD each time they are fielded. On turn 5.

If you field both on turn five, you will almost certainly have lethal when you attack with those 5+ SKs as well. On turn 5.

They're both coming out by turn 6.

That's not far from the worst this deck can do. If you roll bursts on the Rally more often or roll a Shield on turn 2 and use Silver Surfer's global the math just gets worse.

Neither Human Torch nor Force Beam, nor even Quicksilver will be enough to stop this. A Force Beam on Turn 3 wouldn't even reset to Turn 1 above, it would keep the bag the same, but give the Gobby player an extra die on Turn 3 or 4.

There is no other die worth buying once Rally hits the environment. If you can buy Gobby, do. If not, buy Rally.

That is how you will play Marvel Dice Masters, unless you want to lose.

*drops mike*


Maybe wait and see how it plays before crying that the sky is falling?

Gobby is good, no question, but he is also very dependent on lucky rolls. Rally helps with this for sure, but it's a basic action so if I see someone playing Gobby and Rally, then I'll try and buy Rally first.

I just think it's way too early to be complaining when no one has actually played it yet (outside of testers).
 
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Greg Byrd
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H00D4M4N wrote:

Maybe wait and see how it plays before crying that the sky is falling?

Gobby is good, no question, but he is also very dependent on lucky rolls. Rally helps with this for sure, but it's a basic action so if I see someone playing Gobby and Rally, then I'll try and buy Rally first.

I just think it's way too early to be complaining when no one has actually played it yet (outside of testers).


Well, what would you do to counter it?

The scenario I described is very reasonable- it's not some fantasy best case, it's what you would expect.

You said it well that Gobby (now) is dependent on luck-it's hard to actually roll SKs. There's no [very little] luck with Rally. 75% chance of at least 2 SKs, roughly 25% chance of getting 3. This takes away Gobby's one weakness.

Buying Rally first is a great idea, it's an excellent die and I'd have to assume that both players will bring it (if possible). But as a generic-cost basic die, you can't stop me from getting at least one. In order to stop me from getting 2, you would have to go first and buy nothing else your first two turns (which would be a great idea, actually). One is all that is needed to reduce the bag to that one Rally plus Gobby's- except that the game would be over long before then.

The best way to stop it is to get cheap characters that can block Gobby without killing him. Mr. Fantastic-Elastic is the only thing that comes to mind. (Brilliant Scientist would most likely KO Gobby with the +2/2 ability when blocking, which is of course the worst thing you could do). I know more defensive characters are coming in Uncanny.
 
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Thomas Landy
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byrdru wrote:
H00D4M4N wrote:

Maybe wait and see how it plays before crying that the sky is falling?

Gobby is good, no question, but he is also very dependent on lucky rolls. Rally helps with this for sure, but it's a basic action so if I see someone playing Gobby and Rally, then I'll try and buy Rally first.

I just think it's way too early to be complaining when no one has actually played it yet (outside of testers).


Well, what would you do to counter it?

The scenario I described is very reasonable- it's not some fantasy best case, it's what you would expect.

You said it well that Gobby (now) is dependent on luck-it's hard to actually roll SKs. There's no [very little] luck with Rally. 75% chance of at least 2 SKs, roughly 25% chance of getting 3. This takes away Gobby's one weakness.

Buying Rally first is a great idea, it's an excellent die and I'd have to assume that both players will bring it (if possible). But as a generic-cost basic die, you can't stop me from getting at least one. In order to stop me from getting 2, you would have to go first and buy nothing else your first two turns (which would be a great idea, actually). One is all that is needed to reduce the bag to that one Rally plus Gobby's- except that the game would be over long before then.

The best way to stop it is to get cheap characters that can block Gobby without killing him. Mr. Fantastic-Elastic is the only thing that comes to mind. (Brilliant Scientist would most likely KO Gobby with the +2/2 ability when blocking, which is of course the worst thing you could do). I know more defensive characters are coming in Uncanny.


Block Gobby without ko'ing him, buy Rally first to mess with the opponent's strategy, etc. And if the opponent is buying Rally first, then they aren't buying characters so then it gives you time to get out your own. Things like Loki Gem-Keeper work nicely and would halt this strategy in its tracks. It's all about tempo, and while Rally certainly helps Gobby, I still think it's a bit early to see what kind of an impact it will have on the game right now. Especially since we don't know what's coming in Uncanny.
 
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Chris Berry
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Dr Doom RRR is the only thing I can think of to counter the swarm of sidekicks (or rare Venom). But with Storm Wind-Rider running around it can be hard to keep defensive characters in play.
 
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Thomas Landy
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delewobmesid wrote:
Dr Doom RRR is the only thing I can think of to counter the swarm of sidekicks (or rare Venom). But with Storm Wind-Rider running around it can be hard to keep defensive characters in play.


Wind Rider also works. Send them back to used, and damage opponent. Thanks Rally!
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Greg Byrd
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H00D4M4N wrote:
delewobmesid wrote:
Dr Doom RRR is the only thing I can think of to counter the swarm of sidekicks (or rare Venom). But with Storm Wind-Rider running around it can be hard to keep defensive characters in play.


Wind Rider also works. Send them back to used, and damage opponent. Thanks Rally!


Good point, Wind Rider does love SKs.
 
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Luke Heineman
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ironcates wrote:
lukeheineman99 wrote:
ironcates wrote:
I don't see this card getting play but it looks cool.

Rally though, seems broken with Gobby, as if Gobby wasn't already strong:shake:. I'm thinking people will have to run Force Beam or Doctor Doom: Reed Richards' Rival to handle it.


The word broken is completely over used.
I did say "seems" which implies that it remains to be seen and I offered a couple of counters. I've played against Gobby now and there are definitely games that are un-winnable and with Rally the fact that you can amass sidekicks it will make more games un-winnable.


I think you mean it's overpowered, not broken.
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Mike Beiter
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Overpowered means way too good for its cost.

Broken means 90% of the time its nearly worthless but the other 10% of the time its a game winner of doom.
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Kevin Warrender
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I just realized the Spider-Man card has a green "uncommon" stripe. Odd.

 
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Jake Talley
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lukeheineman99 wrote:
The word broken is completely over used.


srsly
 
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MajaiofDreams wrote:
Overpowered means way too good for its cost.

Broken means 90% of the time its nearly worthless but the other 10% of the time its a game winner of doom.


This!

No card in MDM is broken. But there are a handful that are clearly OP.
 
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Greg Byrd
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I always thought broken meant that you would lose the game unless you played with it. Or it meant that the card needed to be "fixed" (nerfed) in order to restore balance to the game.

I guess these definitions make a little more sense.

In any event, Rally is overpowered.
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byrdru wrote:
I always thought broken meant that you would lose the game unless you played with it. Or it meant that the card needed to be "fixed" (nerfed) in order to restore balance to the game.

I guess these definitions make a little more sense.

In any event, Rally is overpowered.


That's what I really like about this game, though. Normally Rally would be considered overpowered in a game like MtG where you only use your cards against your opponent, but here basic actions can be purchased by either player. I mean, it isn't unheard of for an opponent to use your own actions against you. Of course, you should have an edge because you can plan around it better, but it's still a risk you're taking.
 
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