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1775: Rebellion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Command Decision, The Rulebook, & Factions rss

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Ryan Wheeler
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It seemed clear after reading the rules on my recent first play that 'factions', as defined by the rules, were the 'colors' with cards and turn markers, ie. 'Game Components' list '4 Turn Markers - One for each faction color…' and rules section 1.1 'Choose a Faction' where four factions are specified. This was reinforced upon reading section 3.1.3 'Allied Units' where it goes on to explain Hessians, French, and Native Americans and never once (that I could find) refers to them as 'factions', only 'allied units'.

Therefore we played the 3.3.3 Command Decision Result rules in that spirit. The rules state, 'When a blank die face is rolled, that faction’s player may decide to move one of his own units out of the current battle.' (emphasis in rulebook). It seemed obvious to me that since there are only four factions (being played by one or more players) the person holding the cards of that color command decision die result makes the decision to remain or not. Since allied units were not factions we treated the blank faces as non-results.

Then I came to the rules forum for the customary post-game 'what did I do incorrectly' research and it turns out I screwed that up. I didn't find anything explicit in the forums but implicit clarifications from the designer regarding who controls the non-faction factions made it clear. I'd like to blame the rules which don't even include handling non-player allies in the battle examples and, worse, contain this sentence in the 'Command Decision Result' section, 'An area that contains only Native American units may be moved into by Command Decision, because they are independent. Once your unit moves in, they become your ally.' Really? Now that I know that Native Americans are a faction that contains 'one of my own units' how do I track that these newly acquired units are my allies? I know that I can't and that these units would be neutral but the rules are not great in this section. It's very possible I'm missing the relevant sections where it's explicit that non-player allied units are, indeed, factions and it's clear what to do with them in battle. It would be awesome if someone could point out those sections if they do exist.

edit: formatting
 
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David Reed
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Not sure if this will help, and I am not going to site references to the rule book because I am just that lazy today.

1. Only Native units that are part of one of your armies is allied with you. Not all Native units on the board. That is why if two opposing armies with native units in each, will flee in equal numbers. Any remaining Native units will take part in the battle. If you role a blank, the units in that battle can be moved. If you move them to a place with no other units in it, they become neutral again. Likewise, if all of your units flee and only native units remain, they will join your opponents army.

2. I am pretty sure you can also take control of a Colony area with only Hessian or French units. They are as your other units, only they can not move on their own and do not have a specific turn. So unless they are part of your starting factions, they will not be able to move and attack since they do not have an independent turn.

D.
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Ryan Wheeler
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STYLES_DNR wrote:
Not sure if this will help, and I am not going to site references to the rule book because I am just that lazy today.

1. Only Native units that are part of one of your armies is allied with you. Not all Native units on the board. That is why if two opposing armies with native units in each, will flee in equal numbers. Any remaining Native units will take part in the battle. If you role a blank, the units in that battle can be moved. If you move them to a place with no other units in it, they become neutral again. Likewise, if all of your units flee and only native units remain, they will join your opponents army.

Yes, I understand about the neutrality of the Native Americans. I just think the rules could be more clear about the definition of non-player factions particularly as it applies to command decision unless I'm missing something which is why rulebook references would be helpful. It could just be that the rules could be better written and battle examples could be more inclusive.

STYLES_DNR wrote:
2. I am pretty sure you can also take control of a Colony area with only Hessian or French units. They are as your other units, only they can not move on their own and do not have a specific turn. So unless they are part of your starting factions, they will not be able to move and attack since they do not have an independent turn.

D.

This is my understanding as well – the rules are pretty clear about this. What they aren't clear on is if the Hessian and French units are a faction. To my reading, if they aren't a faction then, by the rules, they aren't allowed command decisions. If they are, then the rules aren't very clear about who makes their command decision in a 3 or 4 player game.

Thanks for the reply!
 
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David Reed
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Ah yes, I can see your point, especially with a 3-4 person game. I have only played it as a two player game, so it was never an issue who decided.

It will be interesting to see what others have to say.

D.
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Moe45673
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I believe the official statement is "Whoever's turn it is decides" with regards to allied NA, F, or H, although you're free to houserule as you please. As far as CD into an area that is only occupied by NA, my gut reaction would say "absolutely not" but after thinking it over, I am unsure what I would do. I'd still go with "not allowed" if asked but I don't remember what the rulebook says.

*edit* So I caved and looked at the rules. It says "Not solely enemy occupied" which would mean moving into a territory with neutral NA is allowed. Good to know!
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Ryan Wheeler
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Moe45673 wrote:
*edit* So I caved and looked at the rules. It says "Not solely enemy occupied" which would mean moving into a territory with neutral NA is allowed. Good to know!

It also states it specifically in the paragraph below the quote you referenced. In fact, I quoted that section in the third paragraph of my OP.
 
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Ryan Wheeler
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Moe45673 wrote:
I believe the official statement is "Whoever's turn it is decides" with regards to allied NA, F, or H, although you're free to houserule as you please.

It makes good sense to allow the active player final decision making power. And then if you are the defender and it's not your turn? I'll guess that the official ruling will be that the player who controls the non-militia faction decides for the 'allied units'.

Edit: I found the ruling from the designer here. It seems it's not explicit in the rules.
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Moe45673
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Ryan Wheeler wrote:
Moe45673 wrote:
*edit* So I caved and looked at the rules. It says "Not solely enemy occupied" which would mean moving into a territory with neutral NA is allowed. Good to know!

It also states it specifically in the paragraph below the quote you referenced. In fact, I quoted that section in the third paragraph of my OP.


Ok, I didn't look at the actual rules but the 1 page summary that's the hottest file in the files section that has excerpts from the rulebook But it seems pretty clear.

Native Americans have a certain logic behind them that I think you get. If they're alone, they're neutral. It doesn't matter what the history of that cube or group of cubes have been throughout the game. Are they neutral? Well, look at who else is in their territory at this exact instant in time. There's your answer.
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Moe45673
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Ryan Wheeler wrote:
Moe45673 wrote:
I believe the official statement is "Whoever's turn it is decides" with regards to allied NA, F, or H, although you're free to houserule as you please.

It makes good sense to allow the active player final decision making power. And then if you are the defender and it's not your turn? I'll guess that the official ruling will be that the player who controls the non-militia faction decides for the 'allied units'.


Good question. If defending and there are allied units as well as both primary factions from the side..... you can houserule, I believe. It's a team game so both players are meant to work together. If they can't agree, I'd say whoever has the most cubes in that territory. If that's even, I'd say British Regulars/American Continental Army
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Ryan Wheeler
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Moe45673 wrote:
Good question. If defending and there are allied units as well as both primary factions from the side..... you can houserule, I believe. It's a team game so both players are meant to work together. If they can't agree, I'd say whoever has the most cubes in that territory. If that's even, I'd say British Regulars/American Continental Army

I linked to an article where the designer weighs in on the issue in my previous post's edit. It still doesn't answer why the rules never refer to the non-player allies as factions and then uses the word faction when describing who can benefit from a command decision. It may just be a mistake. My guess is that they didn't want players confusing card-playable factions with the other units. That makes sense. If they were to redo the rulebook (for a reprint or for download) I think it would be smart to clarify this in the Command Decision Result section along with a redo of the battle examples using at least one of the allied unit 'factions'.
 
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Joe Kong
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I have only played this game solo once and am not very familiar.

Should there be separate battle dice for every faction and ally? If you roll a Command Decision of a battle die, should the result apply to that faction or ally only?

 
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Ryan Wheeler
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joekong_hk wrote:

I have only played this game solo once and am not very familiar.

Should there be separate battle dice for every faction and ally? If you roll a Command Decision of a battle die, should the result apply to that faction or ally only?

Yes, the result of a command decision roll is enacted upon a unit in the battle that matches the color of the battle die.
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