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Subject: TMG track record with kickstarter rss

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Christian K
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Hi all

I am considering this game, but I would like to ask a bit about TMG's history with kickstarter. Some peole that backed them in the past can probably help.

Have they delivered on time?
Have you been happy with the component quality?
Did you feel the game had been developed enough?
How long after the kickstarter did the game appear in store?
Was it also in european stores?

It is sort of a pain to back as an eu citizen because we have to pay more than double because of the import taxes, so I want to know if it is worth it or I should wait
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Adrian Brooks
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Muemmelmann wrote:

It is sort of a pain to back as an eu citizen because we have to pay more than double because of the import taxes


For this EU citizen, $20 is under the minimum value for both VAT and Import Duty, so there are no import taxes. Isn't there something of the like where you are?
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Roxanne Clark
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The p&p outside the USA is only $6 on this one which is reasonable. I have been priced out of several kickstarters by the extra p&p but that's life - lookout for the kickstarters based in your own region to get better deals on this. (A lot of UK projects for instance don't charge any extra simply because they don't have to charge the VAT to overseas backers and use the difference to fund postage).
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Seth Jaffee
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We don't want anybody to be screwed by VAT and import duties, but there's not really much we can do about that.

I'd rather see people wait and get the game in their store than pay outrageous duties... but that's up to the backers.

Harbour will eventually be in stores, and we're working on localized versions - not sure how long that'll be, but if you don't want to pay VAT, it's cool with us if you wait!
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Wil
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I can answer a few of these.

First some background regarding my experience with TMG:

Harbour is the 6th TMG Kickstarter I've backed. I also own additional TMG games obtained through stores. As you can tell by this statement, I am a returning customer.


Muemmelmann wrote:
Have they delivered on time?


Not always. If I look back at their average over time, I would say they have been close and they do better than most. Their communication is also excellent and I value that quite high.

Note: my evaluation on this part is specifically from a US shipping perspective.


Muemmelmann wrote:
Have you been happy with the component quality?


Absolutely. Top notch including quality wooden bits with excellent paint, good cardboard thickness, great card stock and coating, fantastic art, outstanding and well illustrated rules, and appropriately sized boxes. I've been very happy on this front.


Muemmelmann wrote:
Did you feel the game had been developed enough?


Extra absolutely. This is where TMG really stands out in my opinion. Their development is quite exceptional. I'd say it's one of the best.


Muemmelmann wrote:
How long after the kickstarter did the game appear in store?

Was it also in european stores?


I'm not certain on this as I'd have to go by memory. I think in most cases it was pretty close to the same time frame in the US. I am not sure about the EU though.

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Brandon
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I have a similar story to Wil above. Harbor is also my 6th TMG project I've backed, though I have not acquired any additional games by them.


Muemmelmann wrote:
Have they delivered on time?


For the Win - estimated May 2012, received July 2012
Ground Floor - estimated October 2012, received February 2013
Dungeon Roll - estimated August 2013, received August 2013
Eminent Domain: Escalation - estimated December 2013, received January 2014
Dungeon Roll Winter Promo - estimated February 2014, yet to be received.

One thing I want to say to this point, though, is the times given on all Kickstarter projects are estimates...things come up and delays happen for whatever reason. I will have to disagree a bit with Wil on their communication skills after a project has ended, though they have been going through some company changes over the past several months, so maybe their future project communications will get better.

Muemmelmann wrote:
Have you been happy with the component quality?


Completely agree with Wil on the top notch quality and components; I have not been disappointed with any of their games!


Muemmelmann wrote:
Did you feel the game had been developed enough?


Another agreement with Wil that their games seem quite solid.


Muemmelmann wrote:
How long after the kickstarter did the game appear in store?

Was it also in european stores?


I usually don't keep up with a game's actual release, so I can't speak to this...
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Richard Clyne
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sedjtroll wrote:
We don't want anybody to be screwed by VAT and import duties, but there's not really much we can do about that.

I'd rather see people wait and get the game in their store than pay outrageous duties... but that's up to the backers.

Harbour will eventually be in stores, and we're working on localized versions - not sure how long that'll be, but if you don't want to pay VAT, it's cool with us if you wait!


I don't think many people expect you to avoid the VAT at all, but the big problem is the 'handling charge' that is often enforced when VAT is collected. In the UK this can often be around £8. What a lot of other KS projects do is to import in bulk into the EU, so this sort of fee is spread across all the copies and so ends up as a few pence. Then the pay the VAT and send the project out within the EU.

It may be worth speaking to Cool Mini or Soda Pop or GameSalute for an idea of what they do and who they use.
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Christian K
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yes exactly. The handling charge here is about 23 euro.
I don't even mind the vat.
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J. M. Lopez-Cepero "CP"
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EU-friendly Kickstarters rule!
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I'm a pretty big proponent of EU-friendly shipping (as you can probably tell ). And the handling charge is around 18 € here, so I feel your pain.

However, TMG has stated that the sent packages will have a declared value of $20, which is well below the 22 € threshold set for most (not all) EU member states. As long as it's respected, then it would really be pretty unlikely that the package got stopped at customs, unless you're very unlucky (or you live in the few member states which have the limit set at 10 €, such as Denmark).

Plus, the game is pretty good, and meatier than you would expect from its innocent looks. Kind of Le Havre-lite, with a really unique market mechanic. So it's certainly worth the asking price. Crafting the PnP is also not particularly time-consuming, so you have time to check it out and see whether it's worth the risk.
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John Drake
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I've backed several of TMG projects and honestly, they are a great company. With some of their first games (years ago), there were component concerns.. but every game in recent memory has had great artwork, thick cardboard, polished rulebook, etc. They really spend time to develop their games.

When one of the biggest controversies about a company is their logo... which may or may not clash with the box art... you know that you're dealing with a good company
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